Sam Ryder didn't want to win Eurovision: "I was praying for Ukraine"

The smile is no surprise, of course, and he laughs when we sit down and I ask him about it. “Isn’t it strange that somebody smiling is so noticeable?” he muses. “I’ve always smiled. It was part of my armoury when I was 14 and had the delusions of youth. It’s just telling yourself over and over again that it will be OK.”

We’re in the George Tavern, a famous east-London pub chosen by Ryder after he played here recently to promote his new music at what he calls “one of those industry schmooze-fests, where you’re playing to people you know are looking at their phones”. Being a man of the people, Ryder opted to give half the tickets to fans on his mailing list – “I thought, they need to bring the vibe!”

Ryder looks fondly around him. “It signifies for me the importance of these kinds of venues. A lot of my heroes, like Iron Maiden, cut their teeth playing in venues all around the East End, so when I was a kid learning guitar and learning everything I could about Iron Maiden I thought, ‘That’s how I want to do it. The scruffier the pub the better.’”

Ryder has done his time in such venues ever since forming a band with school pals in Chelmsford, Essex, at the age of 14. “I’d never seen anyone play before – I went to see Sum41 at Wembley Arena and came out saying, ‘That’s what I want to do.’” Assigned vocal and guitar duties, Ryder and his band travelled all over the UK and Europe – “often playing to no one, but it was fun. We had one tape in the van, Journey’s Greatest Hits. And there’s no pressure, because you’re 16 and doing it for the love.”

Thus began two decades of touring, meeting other musicians, joining bands here and in America, a couple of near professional misses when it came to being signed, and performing at weddings back in the UK. “In my mind the cool job was touring the world, and the weddings were the day job,” he recalls, “but I started learning more from the weddings about how I wanted to improve. And eight years went by of doing that while also working in construction with my dad.”

At first glance, Ryder’s career seems divided into before and after his uplifting turn in Turin when, as the UK’s 2022 Eurovision entry, he dazzled in a sequinned jumpsuit and knocked it out of the stratosphere with his song, Space Man. Confounding all national expectations he came second on the night; with Ukraine winning but unable to host the following year, he brought the event back to the UK for the first time since 1998.

For Ryder, though, the turning point came two years before, on 15th May 2020, when, having decided it was time to go home and make music – “just me on my own, in my shed” – he posted a video of himself on TikTok singing Elastic Heart by Sia. “Both Sia and Justin Bieber reposted it, and everything changed. It took 15 years for things to change overnight.”

Ryder credits this long rite of passage for his lack of nerves in Turin performing in front of a TV audience of 160 million: “I was 31, living in my parents’ house. I’d asked myself for years, ‘Is it going to happen?’ and I’d made my peace with what music was going to give me in life, so I was like a lion out of a cage and I didn’t want to forget a single moment. I wanted to be present and remember everything crystal clear. I tried to keep myself in a space of gratitude, saying, ‘Thank you God, for giving me this chance.’”

Where did he learn that gratitude? “From failure. And from my parents, and supportive friends, and an amazing partner [Lois Gaskin-Barber] who I’ve been with for 14 years.”

Did he secretly want to win? “No, I can’t imagine anything more toe-curling. I was praying for Ukraine to win. What Eurovision has always been about for me is that it elevates and puts a spotlight on where it needs it, and that was the darkest corner of the room, essentially. That joy you see on my face when you see the scores come in was real, and then I fell into a hedge after that because I stood on a chair!”

Ryder refrains from commenting on the subsequent UK entries that have failed to emulate his success – “I’ve been there. I’ve made a promise to myself to never say something that would hurt anyone’s feelings” – but he has been singular in that regard, with a number one album, Brit Award nominations, a world tour and streaming numbers in their millions. Except it’s clear now he felt he was wavering from his path. “I lost self-confidence and value in myself. There was a moment when I was in tears, saying, ‘Have I navigated this right and am I going to reach the potential I believe I have?’”

Two things brought Ryder the change he needed. The first was an internal commitment to “check in with faith, come at everything from a more spiritual place”. The other was moving to Nashville, where the aspiring songwriter told his girlfriend Lois on their very first date he wanted to live. “I told her, ‘One day I’ll take you there!’ And 13 years later, we put down some roots… It makes me want to be a better singer and writer, because everyone around me is a world-class talent.”

Ryder is clearly a thoughtful chap. “I want to try to find a way of being of service in this music space. I’ve been wrestling with this for a while: is it the best use of a precious life, just chasing your own dreams? Although I know music brings a lot of comfort to people, and I know that feeling – it’s been super-helpful to me in dark times – but I’m talking about feeling that you can look back and say, ‘It wasn’t just a vacuous chase.’ How do you find balance?”

However, the Space Man isn’t completely immune to earthly rewards and pinch-me moments. This year sees him perform on the Avalon stage at Glastonbury, a festival he’s never even attended before. “Growing up, Glastonbury was just a bit too far away and too expensive. It’s always been a dream, a bucket-list moment.”

It’s not a Eurovision-sized audience, but the crowd at Worthy Farm will be a big one. Any nerves yet? He shakes his head. "If I feel nerves, I just tell myself it’s excitement. That always works."

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