Josette Simon breaks down her trailblazing roles – and explains why we need to stop saying "colourblind casting"
This International Women's Day, Josette Simon looks back at some of her most iconic roles.
When asked if she can remember seeing herself represented on screen as a youngster, Josette Simon's answer is an immediate and certain "No". Since then, however, she has gone on to become the person she never had growing up, paving the way for younger actresses across stage and screen. But it certainly hasn't been easy. When she was at drama school, Simon was told by her principal, in no uncertain terms, that she had no chance of joining the Royal Shakespeare Company. Since then, she has appeared in no less than 50 RSC productions. On screen, meanwhile, her breakout role was Dayna Mellanby in Blake's 7, a groundbreaking woman in the world of sci-fi. But she's also brought to life characters including Chief Superintendent Clark in Broadchurch, Mnemosyne in Wonder Woman, Lydia in Steve McQueen's Small Axe, Eithné in The Witcher, Angela Regan in Anatomy of a Scandal, and Talitha in Bridget Jones: Mad About the Boy – among many more. "For me, at school, then at drama school, then when I went into the profession, there was never anybody who looked like me that I looked up to," Simon recalls. "I had to rely on myself a lot. I kind of had to be my own mentor. There were so many obstacles. There were so many people saying 'You can't do this,' and 'You won't do this,' and 'You're not allowed to,' and all the rest of it." But that doesn't mean that there weren't people she was inspired by. Speaking to Radio Times to celebrate International Women's Day, Simon lists an array of incredible women who have inspired her, from Dame Judi Dench to Glenda Jackson, to Dame Helen Mirren, who Simon says "took me under her wing" when they starred together in the 1982 RSC production of Antony and Cleopatra. And, in spite of her drama school principal's shocking warning, Simon has become synonymous with the RSC, something she admits she never could have anticipated. "I come from a working class family in Leicester, parents who came over on the Windrush. I never in a million years thought I'd be spouting eulogies about Shakespeare," she explains. "But Shakespeare is the greatest writer ever, because he covers every condition, every sex. He's the most incredible writer about women. This is a man in Elizabethan England – but there is no part of the human condition, gender, female peculiarities, sensibilities, details, minutiae that he hasn't covered." Simon has also become inextricably linked with Shakespeare after she became the first leading actress who is Black in the RSC, playing Rosaline in Love's Labour's Lost in 1984, followed by Isabella in Measure for Measure, Titania/Hippolyta in A Midsummer Night's Dream and Cleopatra in Antony and Cleopatra. But how do you begin to approach a role that so many have taken on before you? "I had to learn about that right from the very beginning," Simon explains, "certainly with the RSC, because from the very first leading role that you get, any number of people will say, 'Oh, I saw Judi Dench, Vanessa Redgrave, Maggie Smith, they were absolutely brilliant.' "Not only did I have that with my first leading roles, but I also had the spotlight that said, 'Actors who are Black can't really do Shakespeare, and you are the first one under the microscope,' so as a young actress, you had all that pressure, because if it had not gone well... "What I learned to do was to, first of all, ignore it, and secondly, I treat everything as if it's the very first time it's ever been done. It's the very first time anyone has ever seen it. It's the very first time I've ever known about it." Some of Simon's RSC roles are considered an early example of "colourblind casting", the casting of a role without consideration of an actor's skin colour. For her, however, it's a problematic term. "I absolutely hate the term 'colourblind casting'," she says. "I hate the term 'Black actor'. I'm an actor, we're actors, and we happen to be Black, which I love and very proud of and all the rest of it. But the thing about 'Black actor' is that people put more of the emphasis on the first word than they do on the second. I say 'actors who are Black'. "Because you don't say 'white actor', you just say actor. And when you say 'Black actor', you're still doing the othering thing. It's still putting you in a camp, it's still putting you in a box." While Simon is conscious that the coining of the term was meant as a positive, in order to make casting more inclusive, she adds: "No one's pretending you're not Black. I'm not blind to the fact that I'm Black or you're white. You are just a human being. "The thing that I have fought for my entire career, from beginning, was to play a human being going through all the dilemmas and distresses and journeys and experiences and life stuff and relationships and love and loss, as a human being like everybody else, not like a Black human being." With this approach, Simon has taken on some incredible roles – and has also played a big part in being the representation on screen for others that she never had as a child. When Radio Times spoke to Murderbot actress Noma Dumezweni last year, she told us: "The first time, when I was young, that I saw a possibility of myself being an actor was actually Josette Simon in Blake's 7. "A dark-skinned, Black woman with short hair. And here I am sitting in front of you because of that woman in Blake's 7, a sci-fi in the future. There's a possibility of different worlds. And she made me see myself as possible." Simon was still in drama school when she was cast as Dayna for seasons 3 and 4 of Blake's 7. Looking back now, she says: "I loved that character. I loved being in it. "I'm so grateful for it launching my TV career and learning so much about TV at a very early age, with a bunch of people who were just lovely and fun to be around and to learn from." She adds of Dayna: "She was this wonderful weapons expert, this wonderful character, but she was just a person. She wasn't Black Dayna. She was just a person. People have told me that that had never happened on TV before, a role that was just defined as as a person not having to fit into some Black box." While Sally Knyvette, who played Jenna Stannis in seasons 1 and 2 of Blake's 7, has criticised how women were written on the show, Simon takes a different view. "I haven't sat and dissected it as much as you might do later, but look – this girl was a weapons expert. She was really cool! She had the suits that she kind of dashed around in, she was involved in fights, and she held her own. I don't think I ever thought of her as a stereotypical sort of female. She was not simpering. She gave as good as she got." Most recently, it's been confirmed that Peter Hoar is working on a reboot of Blake's 7. When asked if she's seen the news, Simon can't help but laugh. "The world and his wife made me aware!" she giggles. "I think it's great. It'll be very intriguing to see how it turns out. They'll certainly have a bigger budget than we had!" Speculating what it could look like, she jokes: "Maybe it should be done with the same budget, with a shaky set and things stuck together with Blu Tack!" "I've got a horrible confession to make," she goes on to say. "I don't really like science fiction. I did that part because it was a great part for me. It was an incredible opportunity, but I didn't do it because I love science fiction. "Everything for me is about the character, the story, those things have to be really, really good – but the criteria is not science fiction. People say, 'Why haven't you gone and done more science fiction?'" So, if not more sci-fi, what is next? "I want to do things that are difficult, challenging, stimulating, brilliant, fabulously written. It's more about that criteria rather than one role." And, as we look to the future of female representation, Simon is feeling positive – and points out how it's women off-screen who are taking charge of how women on-screen are portrayed. "I think we’ve come a lot further along the path, where we see females as protagonists, much more, rather than women just being a cipher to a male hero," she reflects. "It’s interesting though, that a lot of such projects are driven by more females heading their own production companies and making this happen. Otherwise, it would be less visible in the mainstream." Check out more of our Sci-fi coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Vladimir's Jessica Henwick on public scrutiny, Star Wars and staying away from "stereotypical" roles
Henwick stars in both upcoming Netflix series Vladimir and How to Make a Killing. Here, she chats to Pass the Mic about representation and her experience in the industry.
When Jessica Henwick made her on-screen debut as Bo in the 2010 CBBC children’s adventure series, Spirit Warriors, she was instantly thrust into the spotlight. Unbeknown to her at the time, Henwick made history as the first actress of East Asian descent to lead a British TV series. “I had no idea at the time of filming [of the significance of this role.] It was only during the post-production experience and meeting members of the British East and Southeast Asian community that they impressed upon me how momentous this was within our community,” said Henwick. She added: “It was scary because all of a sudden, I felt a pressure to live up to that. I got a small taste of what that experience is like, having public scrutiny and the weight of other people’s hopes and dreams. I really didn’t like it and that was on a really small scale.” Feeling that weight of responsibility at such a young age was a scary and, in many ways, an unwanted experience for the actress. Therefore, she made a conscious effort to distance herself from this and take a more considered career path. “After that, I was so freaked out by [the experience] that I was somehow supposed to speak to an entire ethnic group that I stayed away from playing Asian characters for quite a while. I stayed away from anything that might be deemed stereotypical. For example, I refused to do anything action,” said Henwick. It wasn’t until Marvel reached out to Henwick to play the role of martial arts expert Colleen Wing in Iron Fist that she reconsidered her entire opinion of the roles she wanted to play and the stories she wanted to tell. However, despite the inevitable career opportunities that the exposure this would bring, Henwick still had brief hesitations about whether she should take the role. “There was a little bit of, “Do I really want to play this martial artist?” It lasted about half a second. I loved Colleen so much and still love her to this day. I think she is one of the most empowering characters that I’ve ever played.” Iron Fist received backlash for the lack of Asian representation in the show. This caused issues at times behind-the-scenes as the series wasn’t able to capture authentic stories that somewhat mirrored the Asian-American experience. “I felt an onus as the Asian actor on the show to make sure we were getting it right. That’s obviously a group discussion across multiple departments and everyone needs to be on the same page. You win some battles and you lose some battles,” said Henwick. “The industry was a different place then. I think if I were in that position now, the level of cultural awareness has increased. There would be a little more give to make sure. It shouldn’t be on my head, I’m just the actor.” The intentionality that Henwick had in selecting her next acting role has led to a versatile filmography across a range of genres. The actress has become a regular feature in box office movies such as Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery, The Matrix Resurrections and The Gray Man. Henwick will next be seen Netflix's Vladimir, as well as A24’s black comedy, How to Make a Killing, which hits cinemas on Friday 13 March. After reading the script for the film, Henwick was instantly drawn to the character of Ruth and the wider themes of hustle culture that run throughout the movie. However, even a year after filming had commenced, Henwick feels more connected to Ruth now more than ever as it struck something in her subconscious when she found herself asking the big questions, such as, “What parts of life make me happy?” and “Where do I want to be in ten years?” Henwick said: “I was attracted to one line that Ruth has, 'No one teaches us how to dream small.’ I feel that speaks to a movement happening in the world right now. People are burning out and the limitations of hustle culture are rearing their heads. Why are we doing this? Is that making us happy? I think that’s why there has been this push online for slow-living. My algorithm is all about slow-living, primitive technology and going analogue in any way that you can.” The actress was unsure whether these questions were entering her subconscious because she was inhibiting the mindset of her character or whether those emotions were just rearing their head for her personally. Interestingly, the same experience occurred during the filming of Vladimir, the upcoming Netflix comedy-drama fronted by Rachel Weisz and Leo Woodall. The series centres around a middle-aged professor (Weisz) and her all-consuming obsession with her younger colleague, Vladimir (Woodall). Henwick stars as Cynthia, the enigmatic spouse of the titular protagonist, whose life starts to unravel after joining a small liberal arts college where Weisz's professor becomes fixated. “[My character,] Cynthia, is holding on by the skin of her teeth and going on day-by-day. I just felt like that in my personal life making this show,” said Henwick. “Any sense of the grander scheme was gone and it was just about how I can get through day-to-day and just be okay. It was a long time to be far from home, let's just say that.” View Green Video on the source website Early in her career, Henwick also cut her teeth in TV series such as Game of Thrones as Nymeria Sand from season five onwards. This experience on one of the biggest TV shows of all time provided an invaluable insight into the industry and the role she wanted to play within it. “Game of Thrones was the best of both worlds. It was the biggest show on the planet but I didn’t play the biggest role. I got to taste that huge expectation but I didn’t feel crushed under it,” said Henwick. “I got to see up close the ramifications of fame on the cast and the pressure that they were under. I don’t envy them at all and I couldn’t imagine doing it. Some of them were kids when that show started and I couldn’t imagine that experience.” Having seen the pressures that the main cast faced first-hand, Henwick describes the success that young actors experienced on Game of Thrones as a “blessing and a curse". She added: “What an incredible experience to go straight to some of the best television ever made and work with some of the best creators around with that budget. What an incredible learning experience but wow, does it fuck you up when you leave. The pressure to recreate that and repeat that, the therapy that you will need to go to realise that was probably the peak and won’t be able to surpass that.” Henwick remarked that early in her career, she almost got roles that would have changed the course of her career. She had auditioned for the lead role of Rey in Star Wars: The Force Awakens before it went to Daisy Ridley. Despite the disappointment and anger at the time, she looks back on this with gratitude. “I look back now and realise it was for the best. I don’t think I am the type of person who would be able to handle that level of exposure that fast. I much prefer the slow burn.” Vladimir will be released on Netflix on 5 March 2026. Sign up for Netflix from £5.99 a month. Netflix is also available on Sky Glass and Virgin Media Stream. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Bridgerton’s Yerin Ha reflects on being the show’s first East Asian lead: "It’s what I dreamed about"
Yerin Ha chats to Pass the Mic about what being Bridgerton's first East Asian lead means to her.
Since Bridgerton first landed on our screens back in 2020, the Regency era drama has been a glowing example of a show that champions diversity. With the likes of Regé-Jean Page, Simone Ashley and now Yerin Ha, the series has celebrated those who we often don't see in period dramas as being at the forefront of their own love stories. Season 4 continued to make strides, with Sophie Baek, whose name was changed from the original Julia Quinn novels to honour Ha's Korean heritage. Since the release of this instalment of the hit Netflix series, Ha has rightfully been praised for her performance, but also has had plenty of warming fan reactions to her fronting the show. It's an experience that likely can't be summed up in a few short words but when asked by Radio Times for Pass the Mic about how it's felt to be Bridgerton's first East Asian lead, Ha said: "It’s what I dreamed about and the reason why I moved to Korea was because I didn’t see myself represented in these love stories." She continued: "I never saw myself as a person who was desirable, who was able to be a romantic leading lady. And for people to be able to project themselves and see that on screen and to make them… it’s amazing how much TV can represent characters and the way that they’re seen in society. "And so, for women to see that and think that they’re desirable as well, I think it’s so powerful and that’s what art can do. It can help change perspective and it can help shift something internally that art has made you feel otherwise. "So, to be able to do that, I think, is a dream and I plan to keep doing that. Hopefully, I’m not the last – definitely won’t be the last." A pioneering drama, Ha hopes the series' casting will help the industry "get to the point where it doesn’t have to be a conversation anymore and everyone from every different background can see themselves in all different kinds of roles. Even Katie [Leung] being the antagonist, I think is really refreshing to see as well." View Green Video on the source website Prior to her leading role in Bridgerton, Ha was known for starring in Dune: Prophecy, Halo and The Survivors. But now, her star power is only set to grow more now that she's completed her stellar run on Bridgerton. As Ha details, she may be fronting this season as the romantic lead but she's also joined by the likes of Katie Leung as her somewhat evil stepmother Lady Araminta Gun, as well as Araminta's daughters Rosamund (Michelle Mao) and Posy (Isabella Wei). Read more: Adjoa Andoh details how Bridgerton’s diversity in front of and behind the camera is "really wonderful" Bridgerton showrunner talks approaching Benedict’s "beautiful" queer storyline On the release of season 4 part 1, Leung had also reflected about how it feels to be part of the show's first East Asian lead family. She told Radio Times: "It’s quite a blessing to be a part of it and I hope that it’s just – I feel like we’re still not quite there yet, where we need to be. And that’s why Bridgerton is so successful because it has always been a diverse show and it’s successful because it’s so well written and it’s all about … it’s so that people can resonate with the relationship dynamics. "The more we see of that, the more we are going to be working towards something where we’re all going to be happier and more equal." Bridgerton season 1-4 are available to watch on Netflix now. You can buy the <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bridgerton-Collection-Inspiration-Netflix-Original/dp/0349430187?tag=radtim0b-21&ascsubtag=radiotimes-2381335" target="_blank" rel="noopener sponsored" data-geniuslink="https://buy.geni.us/Proxy.ashx?TSID=114542&GR_URL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.co.uk%2FBridgerton-Collection-Inspiration-Netflix-Original%2Fdp%2F0349430187%3Ftag%3Dradtim0b-21%26ascsubtag%3Dradiotimes-1612614&dtb=1">Bridgerton book series on Amazon. Add Bridgerton to your watchlist on the Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Comedian Slim on his Guide to Life: "I know how to navigate myself in this industry, that's why I've been in it for so long"
Comedian Slim sits down with Pass the Mic to chat about his brand new BBC Radio 4 show and how he's seen the industry evolve over the years.
It's not often that people sit down and look back on their entire life for the purpose of bringing about laughter, but that's exactly what comedian Slim has done for his latest venture for BBC Radio 4. His new six-part series, Slim's Guide to Life, is just another string to his impressive career bow, having been the first Black British comedian to sell out the London Palladium with a solo show and now widely celebrated as the Godfather of the Black British comedy scene. Having performed to audiences all around the globe, Slim now reflects on his life and career in his trademark comedic way, telling stories about being a teenage father to working as a London bus driver. Chatting to Radio Times for Pass the Mic, he admits that he's "happy and excited with anticipation to see it all come together, to see the final result". He remarks: "It's a nice experience because you're evaluating your life. I think we do it as humans every 10 years anyway. Every 10 years from 30, you look back on the decade before and think, 'How have I done? Have I advanced? Am I any further? My dreams, have they come true?' So, it was nice to go back, especially the early years." But how has it been penning a script based all around your life for a brand new radio audience? As Slim explains below, it's been a cathartic experience and is also an opportunity to expand his fanbase further in an industry that he has grown confident in navigating over his years of experience. How did you go about crafting Slim's Guide to Life – what was the writing process like? I had material that was written anyway but I had to go and write for the first few decades, as I realised I didn't really have any material. All my material's after 20 years old so that was nice revisiting that, sitting down and writing that on top of stuff I already had. I enjoyed happily sitting down and doing the project. Was it cathartic to revisit those early years of your life? Absolutely. We're adults now... I had a happy childhood so it was nice to go back and revisit. Your memory jogs with certain events that you'd totally forgotten about and then when you're sitting down and thinking about it, it's like, 'Oh yeah!' I enjoyed doing it. How was it working with a script editor for this radio project? I'd sit down and write down the material, then we'd go over it and just trim the fat. It was nice because me being a stand-up comic, I work on stages. I haven't got as much restrictions as radio has. We had to tailor it and trim the fat but it was good. I can imagine it's a different mindset to the improv and stand-up routines you're used to delivering. Was it more of a stationary environment doing it for radio? Well, we actually filmed in front of a live audience so it's not canned laughter. We done that at Up the Creek Comedy Club. Doing it in front of an audience was different for me. I had to read out my script and because it's for radio, there's certain visual aspects that, when I'm on stage, you would see if you were watching me live. Now you're listening on the radio, I've got to make sure that everything translates over to the airwaves. On the whole, it wasn't too much of a problem. It was different for me but it was no problem. You're celebrated as the Godfather of Black British comedy – how did you go about crafting the series to be both insightful about your career and funny? My life's always had these little funny moments from young. There's a lot of stuff that – although people know who I am – they wouldn't know about me, especially my younger years. For me, it was a great experience just going back and evaluating that 50 years of my life. A lot of people don't really do that – that's auditing half a century. It was exciting to do and I feel like the people out there, the listeners, will enjoy the final production. There's likely to be a different fanbase for radio, with some listeners maybe not aware of your work till now. How does that feel to possibly have a new legion of fans? Absolutely love that, it'll keep me in business longer. If you can keep getting new fans along the way, you'll usually stay in business longer, so I welcome all the fans and the people who love my kind of comedy. Across your remarkable 20-year career, you've seen a lot of trends and people coming and going. How do you think the comedy industry has evolved over the years, in terms of representation and Black British talent specifically? Now we've got social media and the internet, that is the way that most of the young comics are coming through, rather than finding a little pub with a little comedy night going on upstairs. That used to be the original way. Now, people are posting up their own stuff and coming through that way. Comedy has evolved. We've got more social media influencers coming through and making a career in comedy. I do believe that we've evolved, definitely, in the last 10 years. For the better? Yeah, I'd say so. At the end of the day, there's people that might not be able to make it out to a theatre or a venue but they can stay at home and have a laugh. I do believe that the comedy scene has changed a lot – there's also a lot of comics that, after Covid, didn't come back. It's always changing, no industry stays the same and it evolves in some kind of way. As an older or more mature comic, I just try and move with the times and not be left behind. Social media lowers the barrier to entry in the industry, which is a good thing – do you think that is a major positive in terms of the range of stories and comics we're seeing in the scene at the moment? Absolutely! Everybody's got a different sense of humour – what one person thinks is funny, another doesn't. So what you do need is an array of comics who can cater to everybody's needs. You may have the quirky comic, the dark humour comic. Do you think there's still more that needs to be done to nurture diverse talent in British comedy or is it somewhere you've seen vast improvements? There are improvements, I don't want to bang on like we've not seen any form of Black people on TV – but there's still gatekeepers to this industry, definitely. I don't know how the TV industry works out who they choose to work on, uplift and promote. At the end of the day, I don't overthink that. The comics I've seen that overthink it, they upset themselves and now you're at work with a bad energy. I might as well work a 9-5, this was supposed to be a love that they paid for! I know the pitfalls and I know how to navigate myself in this industry, that's why I've been in it for so long. There could be better representation, especially on national TV but look, people are now using social media, YouTube and stuff like that. They're kind of skipping the middle man as it is now and making their money. I think the industry is losing out really or they come way after the person's already established. You were the first Black British comedian to sell out the London Palladium with a solo show – how do you reflect on that time in your life and that achievement now? It was a major achievement but it's on to the next one, you're only as good as your last show. I savoured the moment, I really did, but then I just moved on. Obviously, people who have known me and watched me rise, for them to see me at such a grand venue – it's a very well-known historical building. People can watch me grow from a little place in Brockley to a big, world renowned venue in the West End. I think the pride, that's what I felt a lot from people. I do feel the pride and the love from my fans. For me, it was a chance to go upmarket a bit and just to show that a venue like the Palladium, I deserve to be in there. I knew that I was going to bring a top-tier show to a top-tier venue with top-tier people in it and it was a great night. It will be unforgettable but what's the next big one I've got? On to the next one! What are you hoping that people get from Slim's Guide to Life? That deep down, I'm just a normal, regular guy that's grown up like everybody else and has made it good for himself. Same struggle as everybody else, single parent household, siblings that you fight with, friends – it's just my life. I'm hoping they'll get a lot of laughs out of it but that they'll be able to resonate with a lot of stuff that is in there as well. Slim's Guide to Life premieres on BBC Radio 4 on Wednesday 18 February at 11pm. Check out more of our Audio coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. 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Betrayal's Zahra Ahmadi: "There's a duty of care to communities that haven't been represented enough to do it authentically"
The Beyond Paradise star takes on a very different role in Betrayal and chats to Pass the Mic about how it taps into her own Persian heritage.
Zahra Ahmadi is channelling her inner 007 in new ITV thriller, Betrayal, and while it's an action-packed step away from her previous roles, it's also one that has a bit more of a personal connection for the actress. "I've never had a role like it," Ahmadi tells me about her character of Mehreen Askari-Evans, an intelligence operative who is tasked to take over the duties of Shaun Evans's John Hughes after he finds himself under an internal investigation. From their first on-screen meeting, the air is clouded with tension and mystery – plus an awkward grilling (and ace rebuttal from Ahmadi's character) about Mehreen's heritage. The character, like Ahmadi herself, is mixed-race and of Persian descent so when it came to crafting that scene (in which John randomly asks: 'Where are you from?'), that came from Ahmadi's personal experiences. Working with series writer David Eldridge and executive producer Tom Leggett was a collaborative joy, Ahmadi tells me, and came with the acknowledgement from Eldridge that while he "innately understands what it is to be human, he doesn't understand what it is to be every human in those kind of specific moments". In a bid to make all the characters in Betrayal feel real, they chatted through them with the actors in question and actually, that entire encounter between John and Mehreen was born out of a discussion they had with Ahmadi. "I said to them that people always ask me where I'm from. It's a tricky one because in some ways, I don't mind. I'm interested in people, I want to know where they're from and what's your heritage. It's not that I have an issue with that, but it's more when it's used as a measuring tool," the actress tells me. "We can put whatever words we want on it, but it's 'How British are you?'," she says. "I was really grateful that they really listened. To explore that sort of dichotomy of being from a mixed background ... because anyone from a mixed background – we can all connect and relate as humans – it's so specific depending on what your mix is. And then also, were you around both parents the whole time? And if you were, was one parent away working a lot? Was there a dominant parent whose culture you took on slightly more, who you could identify with more? "That can be different between siblings as well. Myself and my siblings have different levels of identity with different sides of ourselves – that's cool, that's beautiful and that should be celebrated. I just love that David and Tom were able to listen and collaborate and go, 'Yeah, let's make this real, and let's make it your experience'." Being of Persian descent and portraying that in her new character is something that the actress says is "important". However, Ahmadi does underline that it's not always about "prescriptive casting". "I'm an actor, we're all actors. We should be able to play anything. So I don't necessarily believe in prescriptive casting," she says. "I certainly didn't go to drama school for three years to play myself. I'm trying to escape myself by being an actor," she laughs. "However, when a group of people have been underrepresented on screen for a long time, then I think there's a need, an obligation, to be authentically representative for a while so that community is portrayed in the way that they should have been and haven't been." Ahmadi is most certainly correct and with Betrayal centring very much on British-Iranian relations and a rapidly evolving intelligence landscape, the series not only puts its own spin. on the long-loved spy genre but also, platforms a raft of actors of Persian descent including Ahmadi, Hayley Tamaddon, Omid Djalili, Karim Kadjar and Raphael Zari. "There's a lot of representation there and it's wonderful," Ahmadi beams. "It's wonderful to see so many Persians in the same piece, it's great. I'm really happy." In terms of the fast-paced role itself, it'll be a far cry away from Ahmadi's ongoing stint in Beyond Paradise, which many viewers may recognise her from. But while tonally very different to most titles in Ahmadi's repertoire, she does compare this new role in Betrayal to her previous one in US drama Berlin Station ("the only other time I've played a spy, actually"). One of the most appealing parts of playing Mehreen was her sheer charisma, Ahmadi tells me, which leapt out from the pages of the script. "When a character leaps off the page like that, you want to play that," she says. In preparation for the role, Ahmadi picked the brains of author, journalist and The Rest is Classified co-host Gordon Corera. "He's phenomenally knowledgeable about security services and I had one really great meeting with him quite early on, where I just was firing questions at him so I could try and get my head in the game when it came to playing Mehreen," she says. Asking him about the one thing that any MI6 agent has in common, Corera told Ahmadi that it comes down to when they walk into a room, you notice them. Surely that goes against the grain of covert operations, though? "We had a giggle about that because ... you're undercover so, do you want to be noticed or do you actually like fade into the background? But it's not about not being seen, it's about not being suspected, right? And those are two very different things," Ahmadi shares. And that was precisely what struck Ahmadi about Mehreen – "she's not necessarily at the forefront all the time, but she's there and she's very present. You feel her and there's an energy, a weight with her." Of course, with any TV show concerned with spies and intelligence services, there will be its fair share of high-speed chases, close calls and action sequences, all things that Ahmadi found very exciting, especially because she herself was safe. "But it truly is the exploration of that heritage, specifically coming from a mixed background," Ahmadi tells me when reflecting on the overall enjoyment of the role. "Similar roles I've done before are great but they've always been very 'You're Iranian', 'You're Asian' or 'You're white British'. So, that's really what sets her apart for me. This is the first time I've been able to explore that as an actor on screen and I'm so grateful for that," Ahmadi says. As well as her ongoing role in Beyond Paradise, Ahmadi is also best known for being the original actress to portray Shabnam Masood in EastEnders. The introduction of the Masood family was a long time coming for the East London-set drama, with the Masood's being the soap's first ever Muslim family. "That was crazy that that didn’t happen till 2007," Ahmadi reflects. But with the family came a "bold" exploration of topics, Ahmadi tells me when I ask how she reflects on that role. "I really respect them for that – Syed and his sexuality, exploring that within the faith was really bold. I think rightly so, they needed to do it. You’re never going to please all of the people all the time, right? I'm really proud to have been a part of that," she says. "I'm really proud of it. I'm really proud to have been part of that moment that needed to happen and had been a long time coming." As for the future, Ahmadi reprises her role as DS Esther Williams in Beyond Paradise for its upcoming fourth season but looking further afield, the actress admits that she just want to play "good roles that are written with panache and integrity". "I'm really lucky because within these past few years, I've been able to explore both sides of myself. I've been able to explore being been mixed – Mehreen in the storyline we find her in, it does lean in slightly to her Persian heritage slightly more," she says. "But then by doing Beyond Paradise, it's the first time I've ever played West Country and I am from the West Country. We can talk about the reasons why for a long time, right? Why hasn't that happened before this point in time? And again, that's because of representation and understanding that diversity exists outside of big cities and it exists rurally as well. "I feel really lucky that on a personal level, on a cathartic level, to have explored those two things within recent years is something I wanted to do and I actually needed to do, I realised once I did them." Ahmadi continues: "So now, working from that place of privilege where I've exercised those things – I mean, I don't want to put them to bed, I want to keep going with them both, of course, but yeah, just great roles. I love great writing and that's my only prerequisite." For now, fans can enjoy Ahmadi in her enigmatic and twisty new role in Betrayal, one that not only shines a light on representation and her own culture, but is also one where she gets t don the persona of "a badass", Ahmadi smiles. "It's fun playing a badass because I'm not particularly badass in real life – but I would like to be!" Betrayal is coming to ITV1 and ITVX on Sunday 8th February 2026 at 9pm. All episodes will be released on ITVX ahead of linear transmission. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast. 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Adjoa Andoh details how Bridgerton’s diversity in front of and behind the camera is "really wonderful"
The Bridgerton star spoke to Pass the Mic about the show's diversity on and off the screen.
Since its initial release, Bridgerton has been celebrated for rethinking what many think of as it relates to period dramas. A genre of TV that was often concerned with primarily white leading casts, Bridgerton's arrival on our screens has not only breathed new life into the medium, but has also proven that diversity can be done seamlessly and effectively for any major series. Yerin Ha marks a first for the series though, with her character Sophie Baek being the show's first East Asian lead and opening the doors on another level of joyous representation. While Bridgerton has continued to be a beacon of light for many in terms of onscreen representation, series star Adjoa Andoh also took the opportunity to highlight the behind-the-scenes diversity of the show also. When asked about her hopes for the future of diversity and representation within TV and film, Andoh told RadioTimes.com for Pass the Mic: “We live in the world, don’t we? And it’s lovely to have the world be able to watch themselves on screen. "We all love that, we love to see it – put a baby in front of a mirror and it’s the most fascinating thing ever. I don’t think we ever lose that fascination, whoever you are, from whatever background you are. "To have the range and the multiplicities of the stories, you will have stories that may focus on one demographic more and then another demographic but to have all the stories at a variety of times, it’s great." She added: "At a deepest level, we’re all human beings – we all love, we all get scared, we all need warmth and friendship, all those things and that’s common to all human beings. So to see all human beings in front of the camera and behind the camera is really wonderful.” Since season 1 premiered all the way back in 2020, the period drama has spawned a loyal legion of fans who are dedicated to the stories, its characters and often female-led storytelling. Previously speaking to Radio Times magazine about why casting actors of colour in a period drama is so important, Andoh said: "It has expanded the possibilities of what stories you can tell, how you tell them and who can be in them. It also means you've expanded your audience. "When I stay with family in Ghana, people will charge across the street to me, excited about a costume drama set in Regency England. They identify with it in a different way." Read more: Bridgerton star teases "confronting" season 4 character dynamic between Francesca and Michaela Bridgerton star reveals how season 4 sets up her own leading story: "I’m buzzing to one day do it" However, as a show that has consciously cast a lot of its central characters as people from the global majority, it has come under fire from some critics. Responding to criticisms that the show has gone "woke", Bridgerton creator Shonda Rhimes told a panel during last year's Edinburgh TV Festival that she's "never going to write a show that doesn't include me". In terms of addressing that specific criticism, Rhimes went on to say: "I learned a really long time ago that I don't read things that are written about me or the shows. "And the reason is because if you decide to believe the good things that are written about you, you also are obligated to believe the bad things that are written about you. "So I've decided that none of it matters. It's really important to stay out of that. How people react and take in the show is none of my business." Bridgerton season 4 part 1 premieres on January 29th and Part 2 on February 26th, both on Netflix. Seasons 1-3 are available to watch on Netflix now. You can buy the <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bridgerton-Collection-Inspiration-Netflix-Original/dp/0349430187?tag=radtim0b-21&ascsubtag=radiotimes-2381335" target="_blank" rel="noopener sponsored" data-geniuslink="https://buy.geni.us/Proxy.ashx?TSID=114542&GR_URL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.co.uk%2FBridgerton-Collection-Inspiration-Netflix-Original%2Fdp%2F0349430187%3Ftag%3Dradtim0b-21%26ascsubtag%3Dradiotimes-1612614&dtb=1">Bridgerton book series on Amazon. Add Bridgerton to your watchlist on the Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Bridgerton star reflects on what it means to be part of the show's East Asian representation: "It’s pretty monumental"
Katie Leung stars as Lady Araminta Gun in Bridgerton season 4 and chats to Pass the Mic about what the role means to her.
Known for her roles in the Harry Potter films, Annika and Nightsleeper, actress Katie Leung is making her Bridgerton debut in the anticipated fourth season of the hit Netflix series. Starring as Lady Araminta Gun, Leung's character is a complex one, and John's cousin Michaela (Masali Baduza) first meets her treating her stepdaughter Sophie (Yerin Ha) terribly. As we dig into their own back stories, we come to find out how the two women crossed paths and how Araminta went on to employ Sophie as her live-in maid. While their character dynamics aren't exactly close, the introduction of Leung's Araminta, Ha's Sophie and Araminta's daughters Rosamund (Michelle Mao) and Posy (Isabella Wei) all signal a shift for Bridgerton, as they all step into the spotlight as the show's first East Asian lead family. Ha is heading up the cast as Bridgerton's first ever East Asian romantic lead, a feat worth celebrating in any TV landscape but for such a major series, it just continues to show that people from all backgrounds can be in leading roles in period dramas. But what does it mean to Leung to also be part of such storytelling? Chatting exclusively to RadioTimes.com for Pass the Mic, Leung admitted: "It feels pretty monumental. I think especially because we’re looking at a family dynamic, it’s not just any role within Bridgerton, it’s the dynamic of the family that’s explored and that is why it’s important because people can watch it and resonate because it’s universal, relationships are what matters." She went on: "It’s quite a blessing to be a part of it and I hope that it’s just – I feel like we’re still not quite there yet, where we need to be. And that’s why Bridgerton is so successful because it has always been a diverse show and it’s successful because it’s so well written and it’s all about … it’s so that people can resonate with the relationship dynamics. "The more we see of that, the more we are going to be working towards something where we’re all going to be happier and more equal.” Leung has been spoken out previously about the racism she experienced after being cast as Cho Chang in the Harry Potter films back in 2005. Speaking to The Guardian, the actress said: “I don’t know if anything could have been done back then to make things better or easier,” she says. “At that age, you’re curious. I remember being very curious about what people were saying about me, and I was Googling myself. Nobody could have stopped me, because I was old enough to make up my own mind.” Leung has gone on to voice act in Arcane, as well as star in shows like The Peripheral, The Chemistry of Death and The Wheel of Time, but Bridgerton is a big step into the Regency era for the actress. Season 4 part 1 of Bridgerton sees Araminta trying to platform her daughters on the marriage mart, with a clear disdain for Sophie but with that cliffhanger at the end of the first batch of episodes, we'll just have to wait and see what's in store for Araminta. We can't wait! Bridgerton season 4 part 1 premieres on January 29th and Part 2 on February 26th, both on Netflix. Seasons 1-3 are available to watch on Netflix now. You can buy the <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bridgerton-Collection-Inspiration-Netflix-Original/dp/0349430187?tag=radtim0b-21&ascsubtag=radiotimes-2381335" target="_blank" rel="noopener sponsored" data-geniuslink="https://buy.geni.us/Proxy.ashx?TSID=114542&GR_URL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.co.uk%2FBridgerton-Collection-Inspiration-Netflix-Original%2Fdp%2F0349430187%3Ftag%3Dradtim0b-21%26ascsubtag%3Dradiotimes-1612614&dtb=1">Bridgerton book series on Amazon. Add Bridgerton to your watchlist on the Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Screenwriter John Jackson: "Why is there a lack of BESEA representation within British TV?"
John Jackson writes about the lack of British East and South East Asian writers in the TV industry and the work he's doing to ensure that those voices are being platformed.
I’m writing this article from the EAST on Screen ITV Writers Room – a scheme to develop distinct mainstream drama ideas by four talented British East and South East Asian (BESEA) writers, set up by the network I co-founded, and supported very generously by ITV. I’m here as a cheerleader rather than a writer on this occasion, but today is just like any other writers room on the day of a big pitch: nerves, jokes, snacks. However, the difference to all the other writers rooms I’ve been in before is that in this one, the other people kind of look like me. I say "kind of" because most of them are a lot younger than I am. But also, of course, because BESEAs aren’t one big monolith. In this room alone we have various mixes of British-Chinese, Japanese, Malaysian, Burmese and – in my case – Filipino. We’re all very different, but we share a common understanding of how we might be seen from the outside. More pertinently, we share a common experience of how we’re represented in TV which – let’s face it – is pretty minimal both on and off screen. I’ve been working in the industry since 2001, and in almost a quarter of a century of writing, I’ve never met another South-East Asian writer in the room before this initiative. In fact, I can still pretty much count the number of writers of colour I’ve worked with on one hand. Some of that might be to do with the jobs I’ve had, but in the case of BESEAs, the stats back it up - the most recent Diamond Report (the industry’s diversity reporting system) states that "increases in off-screen contributions can be seen across most minority groups, with the exception of those of East Asian or East Asian British backgrounds. In general, off-screen contributions by people of Asian backgrounds are far lower than workforce estimates". When I reflect on my career, this wasn’t something I thought about a lot at the beginning. Growing up mixed-race in the 80s and 90s, being in the minority was a given – even within my own family. I didn’t expect to fit in, and when I received notes to, for example, remove descriptions of a character’s race in script – apparently so as to not narrow down the pool of actors we could cast – it seemed to make sense. But the reality would then be that those characters would usually end up being cast with white actors – less diversity on-screen, and a sense of ‘don’t talk about it’ off-screen. In general, it feels as if the dominant culture of the industry has been shaped largely by middle to upper-class, often white networks – and there’s a sense you need to speak that language in order to progress. I think I’m pretty good at it – after all, I was born in the UK, grew up with a strong sense of my (half-)Englishness. I couldn’t have a more British name, went to a comprehensive school in London and then, Cambridge. I can’t even speak Tagalog! But even then, I still feel like I’ve second-guessed myself, felt inhibited, and not always been my whole authentic self at work. Making television is a team sport, but for me it’s often felt like an away game. Writing itself is a lonely process, especially in the UK where writers can often feel quite siloed from the commissioning and production process. But being in such a minority, I think, exacerbates all those feelings of imposter syndrome, insecurity and isolation that most writers feel anyway. But specifically, why is there a lack of BESEA representation in British TV? There’s the classic chicken-and-egg problem of a lack of role models – "can’t be it if you can’t see it". Anecdotally, there’s a sense within many of our communities that The Arts in general just aren’t a viable career path. It makes sense that immigrant communities without a secure generational foothold are wary of unstable professions without clear pathways. But there’s no lack of creativity, talent and ambition within our communities, as evidenced by the overwhelming number of applications we have had for EAST on Screen and other initiatives. So, it’s clearly not just our problem. Within TV, I think there’s a general issue with attracting and keeping any new talent, especially those without the capital – cultural or financial – to take the risk and hang in there. There’s also a lack of training across the board. I’ve seen writers of colour brought in on shows to ‘consult’ on racially diverse characters or storylines to add authenticity. As one of my EAST co-founders jokingly put it: 'To be the soy sauce'. But then, they’re not compensated with a credit or offered a script. Or when they are, they end up getting fired or overwritten because the training and support hasn’t been there on a really tight schedule. They come away with their confidence dented, worried their reputation has been tainted before they’ve even really started. It felt like things were slowly improving. People are still saying the right things, and there’s clearly an appetite amongst the commissioners – and certainly audiences – to bridge the gap and find new talent. But with fewer shows being made overall, tighter budgets discouraging risk and DEI being rolled back, there’s a fear that things are sliding backwards. EAST started when producer JT Wong approached me during the pandemic when anti-Asian hate was surging in the UK and US. We just thought it was time to try and do something. We want to create practical, impactful schemes like EAST on Screen with ITV, our ongoing Mentorship Programme with BBC Writers or the Table Reads commissioned by Sky – all to develop BESEA talent, get ideas in front of commissioners and producers and hopefully help our community feel a little less isolated along the way. I can’t wait to see a BESEA writer and idea – maybe one from this very room that I'm writing from – make it all the way to the screen, and "be it so the rest of us can see it." Read our guide to the best Christmas TV for 2025. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Adolescence duo's upcoming film tipped to surprise viewers as Ashley Walters makes "beautiful" directorial debut
Animol marks Ashley Walters's feature film directorial debut.
It's been quite the whirlwind year for Ashley Walters, with the former Top Boy star kicking off 2025 as one of the leads in Harlan Coben's Missing You and the revered Netflix hit Adolescence. That's just on top of balancing a music career and releasing a memoir this year. But it looks as though the future continues to burn bright for Walters, with the star set to make his feature film directorial debut next year with Animol. The upcoming film, which is written by Nick Love, has been described as a "raw and poignant coming-of-age story" that "highlights the power of humanity in the midst of adversity." The film has been developed by Film4 in collaboration with Joi Productions, which is founded by Joy Gharoro-Akpojotor. Upon the release of Gharoro-Akpojotor's own directorial debut Dreamers, she sat down for an exclusive Pass the Mic interview and revealed some details of what we can all expect with Animol. "That man doesn't sleep," Gharoro-Akpojotor laughs when reflecting on the year he's had. Animol officially kicked off production at the start of the year but since that announcement, Adolescence has obviously landed into the world to widespread critical acclaim and multiple award wins. So, how has it been working with Walters on Animol, especially after the release and whirlwind of Adolescence? "It's been great. I think the joy of it is actually, selfishly, it's meant more publicity for the film which is great because that means next year when it comes out, everyone gets to watch it or will go watch it," Gharoro-Akpojotor says. "The good thing about Ashley doing all these things is that he's a professional and he's quite collaborative. He's very open to 'What's your idea?' and he'll take that, take this. I think that comes from when you work across multiple fields of music or as an actor, you learn to work with people. You learn to appreciate everyone's opinion. "Working with him within that context, there's the hype of the film that we're all excited about and we can't wait to release it. But also, his schedule's been crazy." She continues: "He has been like 'No guys, this is a priority for me' so making things work for us as and when because Adolescence, he went for the Emmys, now he's in Dune: Prophecy and had to shoot that. He shot a different film in summer time. But he's always making Animol a priority. "It's been actually quite a wild time but I'm very excited, I can't wait for people to see it because it's so beautiful, it's very unexpected from him and I think it will really announce him as a voice that people should listen to visually, creatively. I don't think people are going to expect what the film is going to do." While Walters has directed multiple episodes of A Thousand Blows, Animol does mark his first time directing a full length feature – and he'll be reunited with Adolescence co-star Stephen Graham in it. The film itself draws on Walters's own experience, with Animol set to be "a searing portrayal of life within the confines of a Young Offenders’ Institution." Graham joins the supporting cast as a Welfare Officer tasked with supporting the young offenders during their incarceration while Sharon Duncan-Brewster (Dune: Part One) also stars alongside leads Tut Nyuot and Vladyslav Baliuk. At the time of Animol entering production, Walters said in a statement regarding the film's inception: “Nick and I have worked together before and always wanted to create something bold—something that sparks conversation while delivering visual beauty. Animol is deeply personal to me. "It explores the struggle of being your authentic self in a world that often pressures you to conform—one of life’s greatest challenges. At its heart, this is a story about survival and the safety found in true connection. It’s not about the ‘what’; it’s about the ‘why.’ I couldn’t be more excited to bring my debut feature to life with such an incredible team.” Read more: Eternity stars reveal they're already living in their idea of hell in the afterlife: "America right now" Divisive James Bond film confirmed to air across Christmas ITV schedules As of now, a release date for Animol has not yet been confirmed but Gharoro-Akpojotor serves as producer on the film along with Tom Hawkins under Joi Productions, which is a film and TV company focused on Black, queer and female-led stories. Speaking about the wider UK film landscape in her Pass the Mic interview and the state of diversity right now, Gharoro-Akpojotor said: "I'm excited but also scared because it's a film that I hope a lot of people see. "But also, it's a film that I want to challenge people, but the scary part is that you want people to engage in their love story and the immigration of it. I think it's the second Black lesbian film in cinemas in the UK. For me, that's a big deal just in terms of representation on so many levels. I'm excited about that but I'm also like 'are people going to go and watch it because of that?'. At the same time, I think people should watch it for that, if anything." Dreamers is in cinemas from Friday 5th December and Animol will be coming soon. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Dreamers director Joy Gharoro-Akpojotor: "In cinema, after you come out, it's like you stop existing"
Joy Gharoro-Akpojotor chats to Pass the Mic about her feature directorial debut Dreamers, the conversations the film prompts about immigration, and the state of Black queer cinema in the UK.
With her directorial debut Dreamers having premiered at London Film Festival and Berlin International Film Festival earlier this year, as well as having spoken at multiple pre-release screenings of the film, you'd think that Joy Gharoro-Akpojotor may have possibly tired a little talking about her movie. Sure, she jokes that she'd love to sleep after its release, but it's abundantly clear that she's beaming with happiness and gratitude at just being able to make a film like this one. Dreamers is Gharoro-Akpojotor's feature film debut, which she has also written, and is a semi-autobiographical story that is underpinned by love. The film follows Isio (Ronkẹ Adékoluẹjo), a Nigerian woman who is detained after living undocumented in the UK for two years. She is remanded at Hatchworth Removal Centre and there, meets Farah (Ann Akinjirin) who keeps her spirits high as the possibility of her asylum pleas being rejected looms. Isio is seeking asylum in the UK because there is a very real threat of danger if she were to return to Nigeria, something that Gharoro-Akpojotor had similar experiences of. While at the crux of Dreamers is very much a love story, it still must be hard to bare your soul on the big screen like this, I remark. "I watch the film sometimes and I'm very proud and happy because for me, it's a part of my life that made me a whole lot stronger," Gharoro-Akpojotor tells me. "I went through so much therapy in the process, during the filming. Not everything in the film happened to me but some things could've. The scene where Isio's with the case worker talking, it was much longer before, but that scene is verbatim what happened in my session. "When the guy at the end asks, 'How do I know you're gay?', that's the same thing that my guy said to me at the end. Making it and going through the emotions everyday, it becomes different, it reminds you where you've been but also how much I've grown. There were times on set that were very intense and I asked myself, 'Why am I doing this?' but that's what therapy's for." The director adds: "The journey of Isio freeing her mind or realising her own voice, I think that was my journey of having to learn that immigration doesn't have to define you." Although Gharoro-Akpojotor has been doing the screening circuit throughout various points of the year now, the prospect of the film being released to the public brings its own unique set of emotions. "I'm excited but also scared because it's a film that I hope a lot of people see," she says. "But also, it's a film that I want to challenge people, but the scary part is that you want people to engage in their love story and the immigration of it. I think it's the second Black lesbian film in cinemas in the UK. "For me, that's a big deal just in terms of representation on so many levels. I'm excited about that but I'm also like 'are people going to go and watch it because of that?'. At the same time, I think people should watch it for that, if anything." When Gharoro-Akpojotor learnt that Dreamers fell into such a small statistic, how did that make the debut director feel? "It's wild. There are some stats that you never think about until somebody tells you. We made the film and knew 'They're queer, Black, it's about immigration' but that was it. "Then someone who I work with had done some research for something else and had said he'd been looking for Black lesbian films out of the UK and he could only find Stud Life. That was over 20 years ago. "We come from a period where people talk about diversity in film and TV, we talk about making a difference and then you suddenly realise it's a surface level thing. In my mind, you look at Black cinema for instance and you see the lack of." The founder of Joi Productions, Gharoro-Akpojotor is in a better position than most to know what's actually being done to further representation within UK cinema right now. That being said, the director and producer is clear that there's still more that needs to be done. "I made Blue Story, I made Boxing Day. I look at the landscape and there hasn't been a lot of Black cinema anyway that people can go 'Let me go see myself in it'. "Then you look at queer cinema separately, there's not a lot of queer cinema in the UK and that's just before getting to being a Black woman. The things that frustrate me the most is when people are like 'Oh, maybe you haven't got audiences for your film' but I think the issue is that maybe you don't know how to market to these audiences. So therefore, you don't even want to put money behind marketing for these audiences to go and watch the film." She adds: "When I first found out about [that statistic], I was quite shocked because I didn't realise how terrible the stats were, just around queerness and Black queerness on screen. Part of the reason why I got into films was just because I wanted to see myself on screen." Around the age of 19, Gharoro-Akpojotor was on a mission to find just that as a film fan. She wanted to find films that could speak to her sexuality, race and also being from Nigeria. She wasn't looking for these films purely for her own amusement, it was also in a bid to help her come out to her mother at the time. "I was trying to gather research and see how [these characters] did it," she laughs but admits that every film she managed to find was American with nothing from the UK. Through her work as a producer and now, as a feature film director and writer, Gharoro-Akpojotor is hoping to change all of that – but it's no easy feat. She's unashamed in the fact that she wants to create work that shows people that their stories matter, with that being one of the reasons why she went into filmmaking in the first place. "It's nice to be part of that representation and growing the catalogue but it's also terrible that ... there's nothing. It's awful," she says, reflecting on Dreamers space in the somewhat non-existent queer Black cinema strand coming out of the UK. When Dreamers was screened at an event in Ghana, a man accosted Gharoro-Akpojotor in the audience Q&A asking whether the film was "pushing the gay agenda in Africa". He'd said that if it went to National Film Board in Ghana then it would be deemed illegal, seeing as the country had just last year passed a bill making identifying as LGBTQ+ illegal. The moderator had said that Gharoro-Akpojotor didn't have to answer but she wanted to, saying that it was a good conversation to have. "I'm not pushing an agenda, I'm just showing people that it exists," the director says as she reflects on how she answered at the time. "What you choose to do with that information is really up to you. This film cannot make you gay. But why are you so concerned with what everyone is doing in their bedrooms?" While that's just one negative instance of some heckling from the sidelines (although it turns out that the man in question loved Dreamers), one of the best things Gharoro-Akpojotor has been confronted with after screenings are audience members beaming and saying "I saw myself on screen, thank you". But also, a glaringly obvious undercurrent that has come out of the film being screened is the fact that one of the topic's explored in the film is still something that many don't know a lot about. "What I've realised taking the film around is that a lot of people don't know anything about immigration," Gharoro-Akpojotor tells me. She describes a woman in one of the screenings who acknowledged her own privilege before asking the director how exactly someone becomes an illegal immigrant. "She had no idea how you could. Immigration is something where people are like, 'Oh immigrants' but there's no explanation, you don't understand the complexities of the immigration system," Gharoro-Akpojotor says. But she welcomes those questions because that's the point of the film, she explains. "Maybe people will begin to question the rhetorics around immigration or even just question their own belief as to what immigration is and who immigrants are." View oEmbed on the source website We joke rather than despair over the fact that when you add on levels of intersections within one's identity, it only lessens the probability of seeing your stories reflected on the big screen these days. But why is it so hard to bring a breadth of diverse storytelling to life in UK cinema? "I think, for me, I find that there's an unconscious bias. I don't think a lot of people realise that they're doing it. One thing we do at Joi Productions is we say we're Black, queer, female-led and everything in between. But when you come to us, you don't have to sell your Blackness or your queerness. We encourage the fact that we don't need to explain to audiences that this is a queer character or this is a Black character. "In Dreamers, I made a point that they never come out to each other, they just fall in love and that's it. When you live the experience, you just are. I got tired of seeing so many coming out stories because after you come out, in cinema, it's like you just stop existing. It's like I'm out... but you don't live." Gharoro-Akpojotor continues: "I think sometimes with the people in power... when it comes to you being a person of colour or a person from an underrepresented group, if the person you're speaking to doesn't understand that, they ask you to dig deeper into whatever experience you have in order for them to understand. "Whereas if you're in a room and everyone there has different lived experiences, they wouldn't be asking you to explain 'What does it mean to be queer? What does it mean to be Black? What does it mean to be working class?'. They would accept that it just is what it is. It's more about the story, less about the identity of the person. I think a lot of times in cinema, people spend more time wanting you to explain why you do A, B, C, D as a Black person. A lot of writers get frustrated." It's that process of explanation that can often be drawn out and take away a sense of creative freedom for many budding writers from underrepresented backgrounds. "When you think of any other film with 'insert white man', it just happens. My man is just living in the woods, assassin, we don't need to know how he got there," Gharoro-Akpojotor laughs. "Why does he live there? Is there a shower? But there's never questions about his trauma or what led him there. He's just there. Then you insert a Black man and it's like 'Why is he there? What led him there?'. But I think that's a very unconscious thing where [if] you don't understand the other person, you spend more time trying to understand. Sometimes people conflate understanding character with understanding the character's backstory or experience for them to find a way for them to relate." While we laugh about assassins in trees, Gharoro-Akpojotor does reflect on the fact that this very instance rings true for Dreamers. "There was a producer years ago when I first was doing Dreamers, he was like 'I'm more interested in their story of coming to the UK, what was that journey and what did they have to fight for?'. "That's because you're so used to hearing these painful, traumatic stories – go and read the paper, you'll find those stories, it's nothing new. I'm trying to tell a story of women and they're just in a place where they have to survive but that was hard for him to understand. 'How do you make me feel for them if you don't show their pain?' but again, with the man in the forest, you're not going 'Where's his trauma?'." Gharoro-Akpojotor continues: "In the film, I didn't talk about immigration, I spoke about it twice and that was a conscious decision. If you feel that at the end of the film that she should've got out, more should've happened or you're angry at the system then good. That's many people's lives. Many people that you know nothing about because you've never bothered to think who are these people and what are they going through." While the director has crafted a film that is very much centred on love, it does obviously also shine a light on the asylum process in the UK. How has it been fielding questions about immigration as if she's the sole beacon of information on it? "I always tell people that I have no solution, I know nothing but I do really believe that we as individuals have choices that we can make. Our choices affect policies. If we want any sort of real change, we have to make different choices. The thing about immigration is that it's such low-hanging fruit ... it's something the government uses all the time," she says. Gharoro-Akpojotor tells me that living in Dagenham 20 years ago, it was the rise of the British National Party and the English Defence League. Then, the rhetoric was that people are "coming over and taking our jobs", she says, "but 20 years later, we're still having the same conversations. Why are we? What is it about immigration that means you can't get a job?" "These asylum hotels you're protesting outside, nobody just turns up and checks in for two weeks, they got put there. The people who are coming, I think sometimes we forget to think about why they're coming, where they're coming from, what situation they're running from. But also, we should stop framing immigrants in that way because expats do the same thing – they go somewhere for a better life, for sunshine in Spain or wherever it is. "The only difference is there's an economic differentiation because when you're an expat, you've got a bit of money, you can buy a house. When you're an immigrant coming over, the assumption is that you're very poor, you have nothing so therefore, you can't contribute. When in reality, people who come in seeking asylum used to be doctors, accountants, teachers, have all these skills that we don't bother to think about." Releasing the film at this time when those tensions are seemingly at fever pitch is part of the scariness of Dreamers coming out, Gharoro-Akpojotor tells me. "The people I really want to watch the film are people who I want to be engaged with the immigration aspect of it too. I want the gays to go and watch it, I want women to go and watch it, people of any colour to go and watch it. Also, people who wouldn't normally watch a film about immigration and have their own questions." As for the future, Gharoro-Akpojotor is looking to adapt Diana Evans's Ordinary People which is "a beautiful, poetic unromantic romance" that follows two middle-class Black couples in Crystal Palace. "It's all about an affair that saves a marriage. It's adult and different to Dreamers but still soft." She continues: "I have a thing where I'm like 'How can we expand Black cinema and it's not just in the hood or it's not just solely based on your culture?' It's just about people with lives and things that we all experience in life. That's one of the things I'm very passionate about, the expansion of Blackness in genre – horror, action, romance because I don't think we have enough of that. I want to see more Blackness across the board, in every shape and form." Gharoro-Akpojotor is also serving as producer on Ashley Walters's Animol, which is his feature film directorial debut. "This man doesn't sleep," she laughs as we speak briefly about the post-Adolescence haze that has been 2025 for him. "He's always making Animol a priority. It's been actually quite a wild time but I'm very excited, I can't wait for people to see it because it's so beautiful, it's very unexpected from him and I think it will really announce him as a voice that people should listen to visually, creatively. I don't think people are going to expect what the film is going to do." For Gharoro-Akpojotor though, the future continues to beam bright as she confidently assures me that she'll continue doing all three – producing, writing and directing – going forward. In America, they seem to do it all, she says, so why not over here too? "I have stories to tell and I feel like I should be able to tell them. In the UK, we're so used to putting people in boxes but what happens when we just take them away?" Dreamers is in cinemas from Friday 5th December. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Rum Punch's Travis Jay: "I've got a right to grab the attention of someone who's like me"
Having cut his teeth in the world of comedy, Travis Jay chats to Pass the Mic about returning to BBC Radio 4 for a full season of award-winning sitcom Rum Punch.
After the success of his pilot episode of Rum Punch last year, comedian Travis Jay is back for a fully fledged series of his radio sitcom – and it's only set to be the start of something greater, should the stars align for Jay who also has dreams for Rum Punch beyond the airwaves. As we speak before the release of the BBC Radio 4 series and even ahead of the live recording of his second batch of episodes, Jay is admittedly "super excited" for the release of the full season. "I think the response to the pilot was definitely eye opening. It was a real surprise because it's an audience I'm not familiar with, on a platform I'm also not familiar with. While I listen to podcasts, the idea of being on Radio 4 was just like, 'Okay, everybody speaks so positively about this'. It's just something I still didn't know. So, the response has been far bigger than I imagined," he says. And a positive reaction was definitely recieved around Rum Punch's initial episode, with the pilot going on to scoop up the award for Best Comedy Sitcom at BBC's 2025 Audio Drama Awards. Winning that was "something else", Jay beams, with it proving that the positive feedback "is not in my head and it really did connect". "I genuinely didn't know that we'd be in the running for something like that. When you start writing, it's the furthest thing from my mind. Then it's like – bam, nominations are in," he laughs. He continues: "It's my first comedy award, and I've been doing this for 16 years. I'm just grateful the people are enjoying the project. I think it's a powerful story to tell and I think the feeling it leaves is the thing I really aim for. "I'm one of these stand up comics – I do touch on serious things. Previous specials I've done, I've touched on grief, losing my grandfather. It would seem like, how did you make that funny? But I know that there's value in real life and authentic stories. "The comedy will come, I trust my bones to find comedy. But dealing with real subjects is also quite a powerful thing. The fact that a story like this could connect like that and we go to a full series in an audience I'm not familiar with in that way, it made me feel really, really proud." Describing Rum Punch as a "multigenerational family sitcom", the series follows Jay in the lead role as Marley, an aspiring boxer who has dreams outside of working in his family's Caribbean restaurant. Set in Lewisham, the family comedy follows the Campbell family as they come together to keep the business afloat but also, pursue their own individual ambitions. Upon first listening to it, many will likely be warmly reminded of other Black-led sitcoms that have aired alongside many of us growing older. Desmond's, My Wife and Kids and The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air were all shows that were staple to Jay's experience growing up, he tells me. "It's a nod to the legacy of Black sitcoms," Jay says, with those shows remaining so iconic all these years on for a variety of reasons. The studio sitcom format gives viewers "a deeper connection" to many lead characters, Jay says. "The connection runs so deep, it's that real life experience. You're in the room laughing with them and I really wanted to touch on that because it's just things I grew up loving," he says. In reality, the laughter you hear dotted throughout the episodes is all real, recorded live in front of an audience. It's a part of the series that was special to Jay, he admits, but is was always part of the plan when a stand-up comedian is at the helm of the series. "I think if we're going to call it a comedy, it belongs in front of the audience. I think the fact it's real laughter, it lets you know in the moment whether this worked or it didn't. These are stakes that I like, that I'm used to having." The embracing of Rum Punch as an outright comedy is something that Jay says he's doing unashamedly. "I think sometimes we take a shot at comedy but we might fall a bit short so we might say, 'Hey, it's a comedy drama'. "Whereas, I'm like – nah, it's a comedy. We're going to shoot for comedy and if it doesn't hit, that means I didn't do my job. These are the stakes that I think comedy belongs in so I really embrace that challenge." Having gone to one of the live recordings myself, it seemed far from a challenge for Jay to leave the audience in hysterics. Just like the series itself, the audience was made up of all different ages, with jokes landing seamlessly across the auditorium. Just from the material itself, you wouldn't think that Jay wasn't the biggest consumer of audio dramas or really, a listener of BBC Radio 4 ahead of penning Rum Punch. It's refreshing to hear, I tell the comedian once he admits that, but the lack of a personal connection to the form or the platform was a challenge that Jay wholeheartedly embraced. "I thought that if I'm not familiar with this platform and consuming this type of content like this, I've got a right to grab the attention of someone who's like me. It was a real good challenge as a writer, to write blind," he says. "There's no visual aid, your script is setting the tone of the imagination that you try to capture." Jay describes himself as a "very competitive guy", saying that once he sets a goal then he becomes "laser-focused" on it, which is something that the wider Rum Punch team fully supported him in. When it came to sitting down to writing Rum Punch's full series, Jay said one thing was at the forefront of his mind: "Alright, I've got to write for someone like me." He adds: "Because if we're going to drag these new ears to this space, we've got to do it with a big bang. That's why with the pilot, we went full-fledged into it. It was a nice challenge, I'm glad that the response is positive." Riding that high of positive feedback going into the full series must be a lovely feeling for any writer, with Jay saying that many remarked that listening to the pilot felt like watching a TV show due to the excellent visual storytelling at the heart of it. "A lot of people were just like, 'We need this on TV' or 'I haven't seen a family like this in so long'. So, I'm really grateful for that," Jay smiles. Part of the family appeal of the show comes down to the family at the heart of Rum Punch, a cast that Jay couldn't be more proud to work alongside. As well as his own mother, comedian Angie Le Mar, starring as his mother in Rum Punch, the cast also includes The Real McCoy legend Eddie Nestor, Jay's real-life best friend Kevin 'KG' Harry (Ted Lasso), comedian Kyrah Gray, 3 Non-Blondes star Ninia Benjamin and more. Describing them as "a cast of dreams", Jay says that transferring his stand-up comedy writing skills to Rum Punch really underlined the importance of teamwork, both in the realms of crafting narratives for a group of people and not himself, but also ensuring that every cast member felt supported and as though they can shine on stage. Although his mother couldn't make the pilot, she's now in the series and it's a role that Jay had written for her, describing working with her as a "phenomenal experience". "There's a lifetime of memories with this person and they're side by side with you," he says. He recalls one thing his comedian mother had taught him over the years and that's that if you have to explain the joke, it simply isn't funny. "The rules of comedy have been embedded in me from early," he smiles. When it came to crafting the story at the heart of Rum Punch, Jay also credits another anecdote from his mother, who told him to write what he knows. Simply put, the show is the life that I've lived, Jay remarks. "This is the community that I'm from. So, I know the textures and the nuances like the back of my hand." Jay says that most people can likely think of a cultural community hub, like the restaurant in Rum Punch. While he wanted to touch on those elements of relatability, Jay couldn't shy away from the fact that more serious topics do crop up. "Black sitcom has always been impactful," he says. "There's something that it does that just leaves people with a feeling. I think today, there is a little bit of a gap in terms of where we might see that on TV." When it comes to resonating with so many people, Jay also highlights the important of sticking true to the story you want to tell. "I always like to be in that pocket of authenticity all the time. That's why I'm quite stubborn, I'm quite a difficult person to work with because if I feel like we're straying away from authenticity, I'll dig my heels in," he admits. It's an admirable quality to have for any writer, I tell Jay, with the Rum Punch creator saying: "A lot of time we do focus on – especially when shows come out and it's created by a Black person – it's about, 'Okay, explain the Black experience'. Well no, it doesn't need to be explained actually because if I explain myself, it suggests that I have to explain myself. "With this show, it's not a case of anybody explaining why or how they are. Everybody's just living their lives. That's what I really wanted to capture." When it comes to the future of Rum Punch, Jay – as previously mentioned – is thinking big and would love to take the idea for the show to the screen. "I'm incredibly grateful for the radio opportunity we have, because what it's done for my pen has just been ... writing without visual has made my pen a lot stronger. So I think, if TV was available, I'd be ready for it," he says. No stranger to the screen himself with a recent notable role in Netflix's Supacell, Jay says that starring in such a hit Netflix series and working with Rapman opened up his eyes to how much he "really fought for the authentic capture of South London within a superhero show". It was inspiring to witness and was something that Jay took into Rum Punch, further proving that authenticity really can achieve what people think it does. In terms of what he hopes listeners get from Rum Punch, Jay says first and foremost that he wants people to laugh – it is a comedy, after all. "Outside of that, I hope that you see a family that you can connect with. I would love for somebody in the show to almost speak to your experience in some kind of way." He adds: "It's always nice when you've got somebody fighting for your perspective in a conversation. So, I hope that somebody feels represented in the show. We all come from different families, have different networks. That's really what I hope for – that connection is what comes when you listen to Rum Punch." Rum Punch airs on Thursday 27th November at 6:30pm on Radio 4, and is also available to listen to on BBC Sounds. Check out more of our Audio coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Akinola Davies Jr on My Father's Shadow: "We don't see enough nuanced representations of fatherhood, especially Black fatherhood"
Named as one of the BAFTA Breakthroughs for 2025, My Father's Shadow director Akinola Davies Jr chats to Pass the Mic about his feature film directorial debut and what its reception spells for his future.
Despite My Father's Shadow not being due for release in the UK until February, this year continues to be a buzzy one for director Akinola Davies Jr. Having premiered in Un Certain Regard at the 2025 Cannes Film Festival (the first ever Nigerian film to be selected for the festival's Official Selection), leading the way at this year's British Independent Film Awards (BIFA) with a staggering 12 nominations, and now the current artist-in-residence at Somerset House, Davies is having a hell of a 2025. Why not chuck in another accolade then, right? Named as part of the 2025 cohort for BAFTA Breakthrough (which is supported by Netflix), Davies says that it's "a real honour" to be recognised in such a way. "It might be the first contact people have with me, but I've been working towards this for almost 15 years. So it's just a real honour to be recognised by BAFTA, which is massive. I'm really, really happy." Over those 15 years, Davies tells me, there's been a lot of hard work and a continuation of not wanting to give up despite many occasions where he's been talked off a metaphorical ledge or two as a director and filmmaker. With a background in creating videos and commercials for music artists and fashion brands, My Father's Shadow is Davies's feature-length film debut. The film, which stars Ṣọpẹ́ Dìrísù, is set against the backdrop of the 1993 Nigerian presidential election and follows two brothers as they spend the day in Lagos with their father, understanding him more as an individual as the time goes on. The film is not only heartfelt, engaging and witty, it's also tender and emotional in all the right places. The film stars newcomers and real-life brothers Godwin Chiemerie Egbo and Chibuike Marvellous Egbo, with that brotherly dynamic also reflected behind-the-scenes. Davies co-wrote My Father's Shadow with his older brother Wale, telling me that it was Wale who originally came up with the concept of the film. "We're pretty close in the way we relate to each other, we have a lot of similar interests. But he'd written a short film called My Father's Shadow, which was basically what it would have been like to spend a day with our father, who we never knew because he passed when we were really young," Davies says. That was more than 10 years ago now, with the idea continuing to float around all the while. When Davies's narrative short film Lizard screened at the 2020 Sundance Film Festival and London Film Festival, was nominated for the BAFTA for Best British Short that year, and went on to win the Sundance Grand Jury Prize, it was then that the brothers thought they may actually get the opportunity to bring Wale's original screenplay to life in a feature film. When Davies read his brother's original script years ago, he had a "huge emotional reaction", he remembers, saying that he was clear about the direction of the film from then. "I was like, 'Look, if we're going to make a film, I think we should make something that honours our childhood, our family, our country as much as possible, because you never know if you're going to get loads of opportunities to make films.' We just wanted to make something that we felt could serve more than just us." Anyone who has a sibling will know it's not always a bed of roses and Davies refreshingly doesn't try to paint a picture of a working sibling relationship as such. Davies admits that Wale is super literal and very good with words compared to himself, who is "more abstract" in the way he thinks, naturally being better with images and pictures. "I think we complement each other and balance out in that way. Working with a sibling is great – it's tough, fun and games. We have a healthy amount of debate and respect for each other. So it means no stone gets left unturned. We really chew the fat on every decision we make because also, we didn't study film. So, there's just a real premium of being as efficient as possible in our storytelling." As a younger sibling, Davies also says that a massive upside to working with your older brother is a certain level of protection in being more creative. "I have someone who's cheerleading and encouraging a lot of ideas that I have and vice versa. Off Lizard, we developed a good working relationship and we just kept it up. We hope to keep it going as long as possible," he says. View oEmbed on the source website When it comes to watching My Father's Shadow, viewers will undoubtedly be captivated by the framing of the story and the use of time passing as an added element of tension. With the 1993 presidential election forming an important narrative backdrop to the film, it may be the first time that many see the events of that tumultuous year characterised on the big screen. But why was it important for Davies and his brother to also frame this story through the lens of these father-son dynamics in the first place? "We thought it was really important because we don't see enough nuanced representations of fatherhood, especially Black fatherhood," Davies tells me. "I think the Black male figure gets a lot of stereotypes projected onto him. We thought we really needed to create a portrait of the men we are or aspire to be, and the men we've been surrounded with in many instances in our life. Also, we're raised by a huge old matriarchal group of women and that's always meant we have – for right or wrong – a lot more access to an emotional toolkit. We've always found that in the men surrounding us," he explains. "I think it was really important to us to just try and create an alternative perspective, an alternative offering of what masculinity is. All too often, it's underserved." It's never explained in the course of the film just how much Dìrísù's father figure is absent in the boy's lives, but we easily get the idea that by virtue of working in a city and trying to provide for his family, he misses out on spending significant chunks of time with his sons. Davies knows that the concept of this working class father having to work to better this family will be understood by some viewers but it's a narrative theme that again, feels underserved, Davies says, with the director really just wanting to provide some balance to the depiction. As well as the storytelling of the film, the actual aesthetic of My Father's Shadow is another point of praise but it's something that Davies says he can't take sole credit for. Jermaine Edwards worked as director of photography on the film, with it being his first feature also. "He's an incredible Jamaican-British talent who has been invited to the ball many a time, but never asked to dance," Davies says. In terms of reference points for the film and how he wanted it to look, Davies takes me through his Mount Rushmore of great directors. He speaks of early Spike Lee films and the way he photographs Black skin, Nigerian filmmaker Genevieve Nnaji, Rungano Nyoni's On Becoming A Guinea Fowl, Mati Diop's Atlantics, growing up on Steven Spielberg, and also Senagelese director Ousmane Sembène, who Davies regards as the "father of African cinema and is someone who we all aspire to be and to emulate". More recently, having met American filmmaker Julie Dash, Davies feels as though they also share a similar film language relating to spirituality and mythological elements. Davies knows his film, it's clear, and that comes from working in every department once he knew he wanted to forge a career in the industry. Having assisted a lot of directors, worked with friends and realised the parameters around storytelling in the world of fashion, Davies honestly can't say that he always knew he wanted to be a filmmaker when I ask him if that was the case. "Eva Yates at the BBC and Rose Garnett were the first two people who ever mentioned the fact that they think I should make a feature film. I thought they were crazy," Davies laughs. "Like, these two white ladies are absolutely off their rocks! I sort of refused and said I'd make a short film, which was Lizard, and then off the success of that, the narrative world, if I'm honest, just really felt like a more accepting space. "I'd always looked for value in fashion and music videos and very often, a lot of my stories just weren't necessarily being reciprocated or being accepted." Garnett, who was the previous director of BBC Film, was someone who tried to serve underrepresented voices, Davies tells me. He continues: "A lot of women, a lot of people of colour, from different, diverse backgrounds – it's really [the BBC's] mandate in terms of being a public-funded institution and I think it's, in this day and age, extremely brave. But I also think it's extremely necessary. Just having people like that at the helm makes me feel a lot more supported and like I can really go hell for leather." With My Father's Shadow being the first ever Nigerian film to be selected for the Official Selection at Cannes, Davies says that the conversations around Nigerian filmmaking and filmmakers from the continent in general were already ongoing and positive prior to his movie. "I think there's an appetite in terms of us, a younger generation, trying to build bridges with our heritage and tell these stories. I think those of us who are first or second generation in a different country – which we're also a part of – are using the tools at our disposal to bring those stories to light. And also, trying to formulate bridges with working from home and engaging with the cinema industries back home," Davies says. "I think what's always happened as Africans or people of colour... is that we're so accustomed to the normalisation of European and American cinema being the stories we've been fed and we understand. But I think it's incumbent on us to find ways to tell our stories because I think we know European history, know European culture. I think it's for us to not allow people to tell our stories, but be quite direct about us telling our own stories so we can represent ourselves and not be left with these stereotypical views of what it's like. "Arthouse films probably have a place to play in that, because we don't necessarily have the access to big commercial budgets in those films. But I do think the stories are there, the storytellers are there. It just takes an interest from co-productions, from different countries and our countries, to be able to get those stories out. I think the success of My Father's Shadow is a prime example of Nigerian and British co-production and how far that can go when all parties are really invested in the type of story we're trying to tell." The film has now premiered in Nigeria, with Davies describing the response to the film there as being "fantastic". "It was really important to us that we gave a Nigerian audience the first look. It's been really overwhelming on so many levels. History wasn't taught in school under military dictatorship. So a lot of Nigerians, especially in the diaspora and who are also my age or younger, it's their first contact with a lot of contemporary Nigerian history. "As for the older generation, it's cathartic for them to see an experience that they went through, visualised on camera. It created this generational conversation which is beyond our wildest dreams. Nigerians are very proud of the film and have really been very accepting and fascinated just to see their experience being visualised on film." In terms of the future, there's obviously the UK release for My Father's Shadow to come. It almost seems like a long time coming seeing as the film has been a deserved hot topic of conversation in community and film circles for some time now. Aside from its upcoming release, Davies hopes to continue working with his brother but more generally for the industry, he hopes that all of the praise and accolades being bestowed on him are a source of inspiration for "someone else that looks like me". He hopes that South Asian voices are represented in the UK and that there's more opportunities for everyone – but does underline the importance of learning the industry, as he has done. "It's all well and good having a creative brain or an idea or story, but you really have to know which allies are invested in your stories, which allies have created opportunities to tell those stories," he says. "Off the back of successful films, you can get a certain amount of people trying to make films with you but in some of those instances, they want you to tell the stories they want to tell or their projection of what your experience is like. I think it takes a lot of you realising that you have to look for the people who want to tell the stories you want to tell, who are very interested in those narratives. I would say it's a two-way street but I just hope there's more." He continues: "I think the best films I've seen this year – I've been to a lot of festivals – are international films. They're just so incredible because you learn so much about different places. You learn how similar our histories and our cultures are. You learn how how we're all connected in so many ways. I think if you just sit and listen to the news, it might seem a lot more disparaging, like there's just so much that separates us. I just think cinema and film have the power to really bring people together. I just really hope there's more opportunities for not just me, but just more stories." Davies is under no illusion that many directors can suffer the "curse" of becoming blindsided by the fact that they're the 'leaders' of a production. The thing that Davies loves the most about filmmaking is the very thing that he thinks many people miss out on, which is the fact that it's a whole community effort. "I wouldn't be speaking to you right now if I didn't love the people I work with and they have a certain level of love back for me because ultimately, they feel they're within a position to give me more. By them giving me more, it's reflected in what you see on screen. [We had a] first time cinematographer, first time writer, my brother, amazing producers. There's just so many people that get unsung during the process. "I think a director's role is really just to reflect light back on all those people so they can have long and established careers and we can keep working together as well." Read more Pass the Mic interviews: Grenfell: Uncovered's Olaide Sadiq – "I wanted to honour the victims but also make people angry" Wild Cherry's Nicôle Lecky: "I wanted this to be elevated and glossy, which we don't always do in British drama" Susan Wokoma on her short film Dark Skin Bruises Differently: "This wasn't the time to be centring whiteness in my stories" My Father's Shadow comes to UK cinemas on 6th February 2026. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Grenfell: Uncovered's Olaide Sadiq – "I wanted to honour the victims but also make people angry"
Named as one of the BAFTA Breakthroughs for 2025, Grenfell: Uncovered director Olaide Sadiq sits down with Pass the Mic to talk about the documentary, its impact and the wider industry of unscripted TV.
Having helmed one of the most acclaimed documentaries of the year, director Olaide Sadiq remains humble and smiling as she beams about the "nice surprise" of being named one of the BAFTA Breakthroughs for 2025 (an initiative supported by Netflix). When we speak, Grenfell: Uncovered has just bagged a Rose d'Or nomination – testament to Sadiq's hard work on a production that became so much more. While some people around Sadiq have questioned why she was so surprised at the accolade, she reflects on the fact that the industry has seen some "amazing projects" in the past year with "a lot of great people". It's also a privilege, she tells me, to be part of a cohort of people that has seen the likes of Adjani Salmon and Letitia Wright grace the lists, both of whom Sadiq personally admires. "It's weird to be amongst them... but I feel very grateful that I'm recognised in that same way," she says. It must feel like a strange whirlwind of a year in general, I remark to Sadiq, with it now marking just over five months since the release of Grenfell: Uncovered. The Netflix documentary was Sadiq's directorial debut and was one that, surprisingly, Sadiq says she thought may be a "very quiet debut" – in reality, it was anything but. The response to the film was heartwarming, Sadiq says, admitting: "I feel like it got a much bigger response than I was anticipating." Working on the documentary "was way more than a job", adding that "it became a massive responsibility, one I'm really proud that I was able to handle". Whilst directing it has continued to put her further into the industry spotlight, Sadiq wastes no time in underlining the true importance of the production – saying that she's just glad the affected community of Grenfell has had this kind of recognition. In the aftermath of the film's release, Sadiq has done the screening circuit, having had various companies (within the housing industry also) reaching out and wanting to include it in journals, talks and in schools. "I wasn't expecting it to affect people in the industry the way it has done, but I'm glad it has done because I feel like when you get to work on documentaries where you can actually see real change taking place afterwards, it's quite rare," she says. When it came to sitting down and thinking about what route the documentary would take, Sadiq says that she simply wanted it to be balanced. "I wanted to – in a condensed and digestible way – show people what happened, those who might not know the story," she shares. <img src="https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/3/2025/11/251025BAFTABREAKTHROUGHCOMPBENCHR3-3fbf91d.jpg" width="19833" height="5111" alt="Owen Tooth, Ellis Howard, Pinny Grylls, Jodie-Simone Howe, Laura Carreira, Nathaniel Price, Matthew Gurney, Marie-Elena Dyche, Vivian Eguridu, Kyle Banks, Mark Choi, Alderney Middleton, Nathalie Pitters, Stanley Baxton, Megumi Inman, Olaide Sadiq, Cara Ellison, Stephanie Taylor and Sally Beaumont for BAFTA Breakthrough UK 2025-2026." title="BAFTA Breakthrough UK 2025 Photoshoot" /> "I think there's an assumption everyone knows the story, but not actually everyone – even from my family – knew it to the extent that it was shown on the documentary. So that's one aim. But then also to make people angry. I feel like there's a lot to the story that makes me angry and this is someone who didn't live in the building and didn't come from that community." That feeling of anger that Sadiq gets when thinking about what unfolded on the night of 14th June 2017 was exactly what she wanted people to feel when watching the documentary. "I wanted there to be some sort of anger in the film but not a forced anger, one that people might just feel from hearing people's stories and seeing what people had to deal with. So that was definitely one of the very early aims, but to have revelations in it too." She adds: "I basically wanted to, first and foremost, honour the victims of Grenfell, but then tell their stories in a way that would enlighten people, would inform people but also make people angry. I thought the combination of that would naturally then – hopefully – lead to conversations where people think about change, people think about impact. We think about what they can do differently, what they did wrong. "There was lots of different aims and hopes that folded into one project in the end, but it wasn't as clear as 'I just wanted this to be spoken about and have some impact'. That's not something you definitely know is going to happen. That depends on what you've put together and how people feel about it. I wanted the impact to be a byproduct of what the aims were." While it's now eight years on from the night that claimed 72 victims, Grenfell remains a pertinent issue, not least because nobody has ever been charged over the national tragedy. But also due to the looming reality of the tower itself being taken down. Sadiq may have stepped up to the job of being the director of Grenfell: Uncovered but with that role must come a certain expectation from viewers, I suggest. Stepping into a position of authority around any topic would naturally feel daunting for anyone, but it's a fact that Sadiq has taken in her stride. "I think the weight of responsibility following Grenfell: Uncovered has been difficult, but I don't mind it. I don't mind being seen in that way. I also have to manage people's expectations that I'm not a fire expert, I'm not a housing expert, I'm not a planning expert either, I'm not a regulation expert. "There's so much about Grenfell I learned along the way before ever working on it, but also whilst working on it. There's still a lot for all of us to still learn about it. So I recognise that I become someone who people will come to with these issues or these stories," she says. When the documentary was released back in June, Sadiq went from hardly ever really using LinkedIn to it being a platform that was exploding for her, with hundreds of messages flooding her inbox. A couple of people from the industry used LinkedIn to message her, but that steady stream of messages came from people all over, sharing their own personal stories. Whether it was telling Sadiq of a fire that happened in the '70s or regulation issues they were having with the council about their buildings, Sadiq said she felt "a responsibility to ensure that eventually I responded to everyone". "I didn't want to be someone who's worked on something that has now had the impact that we wanted it to have, but then ignore the impact," she says. Prior to working on Grenfell: Uncovered, Sadiq had made a name for herself as a producer in the TV industry, having worked on productions like Ambulance, 999: What’s Your Emergency, Ibiza Weekender, The Final: Attack on Wembley and Boybands Forever, as well as episodes of the Louis Theroux Interviews… series. "I realised as a first-time director that everything matters," she tells me. While Sadiq has always known that the story and people matter the most in documentary-making, she wasn't aware of just how much aspects like music, graphics and a location can be vital to a production. Having worked on documentaries about a range of topics, Sadiq says her mixed career background has led her to have a varied mindset when it comes to tackling different problems. "I feel like lots of different experiences I've had in the past came to the forefront of Grenfell: Uncovered. I'd worked on emergency programmes and blue light shows which are extremely traumatic and have a lot of compliance issues, a lot of sensitive filming, sensitive contributors. I felt like I'd done that a lot in the past and I was very comfortable with revisiting that space because I knew what it involved." Her work in the past involved "filming with institutions, politicians, or companies and individuals that are quite hard to access or engage with", so it all proved to be invaluable experience when it came to conducting Grenfell: Uncovered interviews with survivors, the bereaved and even former prime minister Theresa May. View oEmbed on the source website Sadiq continues to honour the people at the heart of the story in her work, it's clear. But in a TV landscape that often feels as though it may be regressing in terms of the stories and people it platforms, how do you remain committed to ethical, character-driven storytelling? It's all about sticking to her guns and personal morals, she tells me. "I have to see a purpose with the project and if I struggle to see the purpose then maybe that's answered my question a little bit. I feel like obviously, in this true crime space especially, a lot is being made. There are a lot of opinions about true crime and I understand people feel like it might be gratuitous, or it might feel like, 'Why are you just revisiting something dark?' "I feel like there can be purpose to revisiting something dark when you think about the bigger picture, you think about the wider impact. Some people call Grenfell: Uncovered a true crime. To this point, we can't say it's a crime yet because there haven't been any criminal charges." She continues: "But the proof was in the pudding of why we went back because there was still a story to be told, there's still people who want their voices to be heard. I feel like as long as that feels like it's central to any project where there's a genuine purpose for the people involved and for the story platform, then I think that's how I stay committed to doing it. I'm not afraid to speak up and speak out on things I'm not sure about; ask questions, raise concerns. I think that's how I stay committed." Sadiq says that funnily enough, she was asked a few years ago about the possibility of directing. At the time, Sadiq thinks she wasn't even a producer yet and she'd been asked what she'd want to make a documentary about one day. "I said that I would love to make something that has a very big social impact, maybe something about Grenfell. It was a passing conversation but that was probably one of the few things that I had a clear answer for because most of the time, I have no idea what I'm doing," she smiles. Coming off a directorial debut like Grenfell: Uncovered must also come with its own set of challenges, I offer, especially in regards to taking on the 'right next role'. "It's been really hard," she admits. "Actually, navigating afterwards has been hard because there's been so many comments and questions about what's next. I think there's an expectation of, 'Oh, that's the thing you do now – you do these big social justice stories'." Her CV is a testament to the range of topics, stories and people she's interested in shining a light on, which continues to make Sadiq open-minded about what's to come next. "I don't really want to be pigeonholed into doing one thing and it's very easy for that to happen. Why does that have to be my one thing? I can do loads of things. But I'm trying not to overthink the next step as much," she says. More often than ever before, factual and fictional continue to bleed into one another in the TV realm, with factual dramas becoming regular hits for broadcasters and streamers alike. So, could Sadiq envision a future that includes a step over to the world of scripted television perhaps? "I've always loved scripted, it's what I watch the most. When I was younger, I used to do a lot of creative writing, used to write lots of stories. I definitely felt like that's somewhere I'd be interested in going. I think that documentary was more of a natural calling to me and I think over time, especially when you work in documentaries and factual programmes, you do think, 'Oh, this could be a really good drama'." Sadiq recalls various screenings of Grenfell: Uncovered where viewers told her that it was a very hard watch, with some saying the documentary felt akin to a gut punch. "I feel like there's something quite unique about factual drama... documenting something without overwhelming people in the same way that documentaries sometimes can," she says. We speak about the way that Netflix's Toxic Town shone a light on a real-life scandal that many people didn't know anything about prior to watching. It was a series that lingered with Sadiq and prompted her to get into a research wormhole of her own about the Corby toxic waste case. Drama can still have a similar impact to a documentary, Sadiq says, and if things were to align in that way in the future, it's a genre that she'd love to try working in. As for the industry itself, I can imagine that the "weight of responsibility" that Sadiq experienced with Grenfell: Uncovered also filtered into the decision-making that went into ensuring there was ample diversity behind the scenes of the production as well. "I think when I first started in TV, I was very aware of the lack of diversity, not just with race but also with class. I always felt like once I got to a position where I could have that influence, I wanted to make sure I was using that privilege that I had. I feel like it's really hard with television, particularly. It's an issue that people just don't always like to embrace that exists," she states. "I definitely felt like with Grenfell, there was an expectation from other people in the industry that, 'Oh, you've got make sure that everyone you hire is Black'. I feel like that isn't always the goal, because also, it's not realistic. I think I'm very realistic. I'm not an executive producer, I'm not a commissioner. Those are the roles that hold, I think, the most power in the industry. "I wanted to make sure that I saw different faces, different backgrounds, different cultures within my team because I feel like it has to reflect not just what we're making, but also reflect who's going to watch it. I feel sometimes it gets forgotten that we're not making TV for our peers, we're making it for the general public." She adds: "We come from all walks of life, all creeds, all colours, all races. I feel like if the industry becomes more in tune with that, I think it will definitely benefit the projects that we end up seeing. I did feel when stepping into a director role, I also had a responsibility to ensure that I was practising what I preach." In terms of those conversations around the intersections of race and class within the TV industry, Sadiq isn't sure whether the tides are changing. Like many can attest to in various industries, there was a real spike in 2020 but Sadiq has noticed a decline in recent years. "I don't think people want to be put in roles and feeling like they're just ticking a box, that's really important to say. I feel like sometimes people think, 'Just put them somewhere!' and then you've done your job. I don't think people want to feel that way because people do feel it – I know when I've been called about something because I'm Black. I don't want to be called about something just because I'm Black, I also want to be called because you think I'm good enough for the job." Sadiq says that over the years, she's had to be strict with herself and passed on opportunities that she felt she was only being approached for in a box-ticking capacity. "I just want people to have a shared care about the direction that the industry is going in when it comes to diversity in all its forms. I don't always think people are ready to have that conversation or want to have that conversation, but I feel like it's an important conversation to have. If everyone comes from the same background, has the same interests, has had the same schooling, lives in the same area of London, whatever it may be, you're just going to keep getting the same output." Having just spent the past half-hour aware of the fact that Sadiq is being seen as a beacon of information for everything Grenfell-related, it feels slightly redundant to wrap up our interview asking about how we continue the conversation around the national tragedy after the release of the documentary. Sadiq tells me of a friend who, just the other week, had watched the film and asked her the exact same thing. "What can I do?" is the question left at the forefront of many people's minds after watching and it's a good question to ask, the director reassures me. "What I've taken from being in that community and meeting all those people is what they want is for people to not stop talking about Grenfell. It's a community that is worried that their story is being erased long before any justice has been delivered and they're feeling that, in a very literal sense, with the building being demolished," Sadiq tells me. "They feel like once people can't see it anymore, they're going to forget about it. They feel like people only talk about it once a year, sometimes twice a year. I think what people can do is keep reading up about it, keep being engaged with it, keep resharing what they're putting out, keep engaging with the community, keep going to silent walks, keep showing up for the story." She adds: "If we say we care, then we have to show we care. I think that's what people can do at the very bare minimum – that's something that the victims, the bereaved and the wider community would be very grateful for." Grenfell: Uncovered is streaming now on Netflix. Sign up for Netflix from £5.99 a month. Netflix is also available on Sky Glass and Virgin Media Stream. Check out more of our Documentaries coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Sorry I Didn't Know's Chizzy Akudolu on hosting the new series and what it means to be released outside of Black History Month
Chizzy Akudolu may have been an integral part of Sorry I Didn't Know since its inception, but now steps into the hosting seat for the brand new sixth season.
Chizzy Akudolu may be best known for her onscreen acting in Holby City, but has taken on a new kind of leading role in the new season of ITV's Sorry I Didn't Know. The panel show – which now stands as ITV’s longest running show from a Black-led production company – has featured Akudolu from its first season as one of the ever hilarious team captains. Now though, Akudolu steps into the hosting shoes of Jimmy Akingbola and is helming the series herself this time round. Now in its sixth season, Sorry I Didn't Know was originally commissioned for ITV as part of its Black History Month slate in 2020. Five years on, the show has continued to go from strength to strength, not only providing plenty of laughs but also educating viewers on Black British and global history that they otherwise may not have known about. Akudolu is joined by new team captain Richard Blackwood for season 6 as well as Eddie Kadi, also being joined by a plethora of guest panellists each week including the likes of Susan Wokoma, Angellica Bell, Shazia Mirza, JB Gill and plenty more. But how has it felt going from a team captain to the show's host? As Akudolu explains below, it's been an honour to not only flex her hosting muscles, but to also be part of a show that's doing wonders for representation. You’ve obviously been team captain on Sorry I Didn’t Know since the show’s first series – how has it been seeing firsthand how the show has developed and continued to strike a chord with its viewers since 2020? When we were commissioned back in 2020, I thought we might get two series at best, so to see the show reach series 6, whilst going from strength to strength has been beautiful and overwhelming. We always knew the show was great and it’s been wonderful to see audiences enjoying it. You’re now helming the series as host this time round – how did the opportunity come about and did you feel any pressure taking up the role? Fraser and Minnie (Executive Producers for production company, TriForce Productions) FaceTimed and asked me to host. I squealed, then stopped. I asked about Jimmy and they said he’d be filming Bel Air, so wasn’t available. I went back to squealing. What an honour! I’ve always wanted to host and now I had the chance. There was no way I was going to turn it down. How does the role as host differ from being a team captain, if at all? Did you have more fun being the host? Admittedly, I prefer being in the Host seat. I have all the answers! Plus, I get to steer the ship. It’s so much fun and boisterous. I have a lot of control. The show was originally commissioned as part of ITV’s Black History Month slate and Jimmy has previously stated that the show “wasn’t made just for October” – what do you hope audiences continue to get from Sorry I Didn’t Know? I’m so glad the show is now transmitted outside of Black History month. There is so much more to be showcased. So many more stories to tell. Our history is fascinating and I love that we get to share this with our audience. View oEmbed on the source website In a TV landscape that seems like it isn’t prioritising diversity as much as it stated it would in 2020, how do you feel that Sorry I Didn’t Know continues to be a hit series for ITV and unashamedly prioritises Black British history? I’m so grateful to the people at ITV who champion this show, such as Gemma John-Lewis and Kevin Lygo. As I said before, I thought we might get a series or two; that we might be seen as a fad. But the show speaks for itself. It pushes boundaries and it’s great to see it still thriving. What does being part of Sorry I Didn’t Know mean to you? To say that I am honoured is an understatement. The show is making history whilst talking about history. What has been the historical fact, if any, that you’ve learnt that has stuck with you over the course of filming? There’s so many but one of my absolute favourites has been John Blanke. He was a trumpeter in Henry VII’s court and then Henry VIII’s. He petitioned the King for a pay rise. You’d think Henry would say ‘Off with his head’, but he didn’t and John got his rise. There’s even a tapestry of him. How cool is that! Tell me a bit about this year’s team captains and guests – what do Eddie Kadi and Richard Blackwood bring to the series this time round and are there any guests that you’d love to have back on the show in a heartbeat? Every guest is welcome back. They’re all phenomenal and really lean into the show. Shazia Mirza has been on every season. She’s pretty much family now. It’s fab watching Eddie and Richard banter back and forth. I thought I was competitive… then Richard came along. What has been some of the positive feedback that’s most stuck out to you since doing the show? There was a beautiful message we received from a teacher who said she would like to show the program to her students. That touched me. We get a lot of fabulous feedback. The show resonates with a wide variety of people. You’ve starred in various notable shows over the years, what is a past role of yours that sticks out the most to you and why? Holby City. My favourite job so far. I miss it dearly. We were a beautiful family. Loved playing a Doctor. I felt so intelligent. Outside of hosting this series of Sorry I Didn’t Know, what’s next on the cards for you? I have a show called Tommy and Tuppence coming up where I play a Detective. There’s also two other shows I’ve just filmed but they haven’t been announced so I can’t mention them just yet. I also have a film script and two sitcoms which I’ve written and am trying to get commissioned. You’ve been in the industry for a long time – what are your feelings around the state of diversity and representation as it stands in the industry right now? 2020 saw a boom in actors of colour on screen. It was long overdue. It does feel like the momentum has slowed down. It’s a shame because it really felt we were making headway, in front of and behind the camera. What are your hopes for the industry in terms of who we’re seeing on our screens, what roles you hope to be a part of and what kinds of stories we see told? I love shows like Bridgerton with their colour-blind casting. More of that please. More actors of colour in period dramas – we’ve been here for centuries. Strap me into a corset and give me a bonnet! A dream of mine is to be part of the Marvel universe. Colour doesn’t matter when you’re a superhero. What are your hopes for Sorry I Didn’t Know? Would you like to continue hosting the show or perhaps hosting other shows in general? I’m hopeful that Jimmy will continue to be busy so I can step back into the hosting seat again! I have a penchant for it and would love to do more. I host events regularly and actually shot a pilot for a game show. Fingers crossed it’s commissioned. What is the best piece of advice you’ve received in your career to date and who was it from? Be on time. Learn your lines. Be nice. It was from a Director on Holby. It’s quite simple when you think about it. And finally, in your own words, why are representation and diversity within TV so important? Imagine the joy on the face of young, child seeing someone like themselves onscreen. Or someone with a disability being represented. It’ll let them know that anything is possible. That they matter too. Sorry I Didn't Know season 6 premieres on ITV1 and ITVX at 10:35pm. Add Sorry I Didn't Know to your watchlist on the Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Entertainment coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Wild Cherry's Nicôle Lecky: "I wanted this to be elevated and glossy, which we don't always do in British drama"
Writer, executive producer and actress Nicôle Lecky chats to Pass the Mic about her return to the BBC for another original drama, this time set in the glossy world of an affluent idyllic community.
Continuing to feed our TV drama obsession into glossy lives and gated communities is BBC One's latest offering, Wild Cherry, which revolves around a shocking scandal with teenage best friends Grace (Imogen Faires) and Allegra (Amelia May) at the centre of it. Whilst the tumultuous years of adolescence are likely enough for a narrative in itself, series creator Nicôle Lecky digs deep into the affluent world of Richford Lake to examine mother-daughter relationships, privilege and the ever-haunting world of social media. Lecky is no stranger to crafting a talked-about BBC series, having adapted her own one-woman play Superhoe into BBC Three's Mood, which was released back in 2022. The music-based drama was one of a kind, utilising music to tell a darker tale about the influencing world, one that we're all exposed to on the internet on a daily basis. Wild Cherry is "another world beyond Mood," Lecky beams when we speak and reveals that she actually pitched Wild Cherry whilst she was making Mood. "I have so much respect and brilliant collaborators at the BBC ... I clearly wanted to keep working with them. It's a bigger world, lots more characters. I just have so much fun collaborating with the BBC and they really did want me to create something else." When Grace and Allegra are accused of being part of this shocking scandal at their private school, expectantly, the rumour mill starts to churn and parents start to worry about their own children's welfare. Grace and Allegra's mothers, Lorna (Carmen Ejogo) and Juliet (Eve Best), are also left reeling by the prospect of their daughters being caught up in something so awful. As we see throughout the series, though, each mother goes to lengths of their own in order to protect their daughter. As much as the location of a gated community played an integral part in Lecky's ideation process for Wild Cherry, so did the chilling nature of real life events. "I was seeing and reading a lot of stuff in the news, reading different articles and just thinking about the pressures on teenage girls today," she reveals. It's an experience that every adult woman will be able to easily recollect but is one that Lecky and I have particular similarities with, seeing as we both went to the same east London secondary school. "It really made me think about when I was at school – at our school – what I would have been like if I'd have had social media as a teenage girl. I think that's quite a different experience," she says. But examining the story through the additional lens of mother-daughter relationships adds another layer to the series. "This gulf between women mothering daughters who've had quite a unique experience – I really wanted to dig into those relationships and also then look at how the mothers engage with social media when you've got your own things going on in your own life. So, it really stemmed from this small genesis of just wanting to dig into social media and women now, really through the lens of teenage-hood." I remark that the thought of growing up in an age that feels as though you're constantly being surveilled and recorded online is unimaginable for me, with Lecky agreeing. "I probably would say I don't see the benefit to having social media exist whilst you're at that age. There's so many pressures already. It just feels like an added layer of tension and something else ... to navigate your hierarchy in the real world and then also, navigate it online. So I think that's probably my takeaway from it," she says. "I'm sure there will be some benefits to it, but I definitely felt perhaps more sheltered because I knew what was going on in my borough and I didn't really know what teenagers were up to in Calabasas or something. It feels like a really different time." Where Mood dug into the world of influencing and sex work, Wild Cherry also doesn't shy away from exploring topical themes and issues. As well as digging into the pressures surrounding being a woman (and a young girl) today, Lecky thought it was also important to encapsulate "that unique tension of growing up and figuring out who you are" that isn't just an exclusive feeling to when you're navigating your teens. "It doesn't stop when you're a woman. Women in their late 40s or 50s can still be figuring it out," she says. Another notable influence on Lecky's writing process were the "sexting scandals that have come out" which led to plenty of articles and the creation of Everyone's Invited, with Lecky wanting to examine all of that through a British lens. Ultimately, though, it's also about creating a series that is entertaining. "It was about unpicking a world of tensions with lies and secrets. It felt like women – we can sometimes keep these secrets and we have that duality to our personality," she says. Whilst Lecky took on a leading role in Mood, in Wild Cherry she takes on a different kind of character in Gigi, a life coach who starts working with the girls at the local school but appears to be a threat to the usual order of events in Richford Lake by virtue of being younger, American and always beaming with optimism. Lecky admits that she didn't always know she would play Gigi, saying that it was a decision that came later in the development process, but that she wanted Gigi to end up being the narrative voice of the town. "She does things along the way that I think you're a bit like, we don't maybe trust her. What's her angle? What does she want from this town and these women? Her friendship with Juliet feels complicated." While Gigi's narration reminded me of shows like Gossip Girl or Pretty Little Liars, Lecky admits that her inspiration for that narrative style was born out of an admiration for seminal drama, Desperate Housewives. "That was a show that I felt like [voiceover] worked really well in. I wanted to look at these thorny subjects and themes, but I wanted it to be elevated and have that glossiness to it, which we don't always do in British drama," she says. Part of that glossiness also comes in the title sequence of the series, which throws up a wistful montage of scenes and film shots that's accompanied by a song, which is performed by Lecky herself. I had a feeling that Lecky is the songstress we hear in the sequence and she smiles, reminiscing about the process of creating that song with series composer Rotem Frimer. "It was always my intention, actually, I should say, to do the title music. I thought that was quite fun. Rotem and I got into a studio and we created the song – and that became the title track." Anyone who's watched Mood already knows Lecky has some serious musical chops, with the series creator saying that she wanted to craft Wild Cherry to be "quite sonically different to Mood", wanting to delve deep into a more "nostalgic world" with her folky title song doing just that and seeking to evoke feelings of girlhood, she tells me. When it comes to the cast of Wild Cherry, as well as being made up of rising talent, it also includes plenty of notable names likes Eve Best, Carmen Ejogo, Hugh Quarshie and Nathaniel Martello-White. Getting a window into those complicated adult lives and relationships is part of the fun of the series, but there are nuances to Ejogo and Martello-White's family story that show the differences in how they choose to raise Grace versus how Juliet has raised Allegra. How does their racial identity inform their parenting decisions and how do they differ from Juliet's, if at all? "You can't ever get away from what you look like, how somebody else might choose to perceive you. I think often your race is put on to you a lot of the time when you're just existing," Lecky says. "Lorna and Steven are just trying to live in this world, they're not walking around every day going, 'Oh, I'm Black or I'm mixed'. But I think once things start to go wrong in the world – it's not that they're not aware of it, but they see how, 'Okay, we're really being targeted here'. "All of that stuff, though, is very nuanced and layered, as it usually is for you when you're living out your day-to-day. That was something that was really important to me – that's not what the series is about, but how you exist and therefore how they're parenting and how they're treated in the school, it does affect that." She adds: "I think that the difference for Lorna and Juliet is probably as much about class as it is race. Juliet was born into wealth and she has this safety net that Lorna just doesn't have because she's self-made and she's not from the area. If things go badly, she won't be able to afford her house, schooling and all the rest of it." As much as we do get flashbacks for most of the characters' lives to better understand them, it's Lorna's that is particularly interesting as it shows an entirely different life that is a world away from Richford Lake. "For me, it was particularly important to see her background, her humble beginnings, where she came from and as she enters this very corporate world, which is quite overwhelming and can be very overwhelming for somebody from that background. It helps explain why she's so hard on Grace and the fears that she has for Grace, even just with regards to her sexuality," Lecky says. While we certainly won't reveal any spoiler details about the (shocking) final episode of Wild Cherry, it does leave the door ajar for some continuation. The finale does a great job at tying loose ends up, but it also leaves a few burning questions that could form the basis of a second season. Is it just wishful thinking on my part? Lecky smiles and admits that it's a question for the BBC – but that it's a possibility. "I think I'm always in the moment and I was just writing this part of the story. But yeah, I could definitely see where there is unfinished business. So I think I'd say watch this space." It was recently reported that Lecky is heading up a Netflix adaptation of Dangerous Liaisons and whilst she admits that it is all very early days right now, she remains understandably tight-lipped about details. But when it comes to the kinds of stories and narratives that Lecky wants to continue to be a part of, her goals are clear. "I'm very passionate about stories, mainly stories about women, stories about working class women and the issues we face. I am always particularly interested in diverse stories but again, being able to tell them in any setting is really important for me," she shares. Lecky admits that she's really been enjoying acting recently (with an upcoming role in George Clooney's Jay Kelly on the cards) and says that's what she'd love to continue doing, potentially even returning to the stage. Whilst Lecky herself remains passionate about her goal of bringing a variety of stories to life, how does she feel about the state of the industry right now in terms of who and what we're seeing on our screens? "I think that my main feeling is still probably at the role I'm in as an exec, showrunner, mixed-Black, working class woman – I still don't see very much of myself at the top, quote unquote. So I think I just say that alone, there's probably a lot more that needs to be done." When it comes to advising any budding writers from similar backgrounds, Lecky underlines the importance of authenticity and remaining dedicated to the kinds of stories you want to tell. "You have to, ultimately, be passionate about what you want to make and be pretty dogged really, like really fixated on if that is the story you want to tell. Because I think ultimately, your voice is so unique and distinctive. So, you can't second guess what you think somebody will want from you. You have to really double down on 'Who are you?', what do you want to say and and try and take it to the right ears that are open to listen to it or read it. "That's probably what I did in terms of when I finally wrote Superhoe. I'd written stuff before but perhaps I was always trying to figure out, 'Oh, might somebody want this or might somebody want to put this on?'. Actually, when I just sat down and wrote Superhoe, nobody asked for it. It was just something I wanted to do and that really did open a lot of doors for me. So, I think realising that being authentic is probably the best thing you you can do." Wild Cherry premieres on BBC One and BBC iPlayer on Friday 15th November. Add Wild Cherry to your watchlist on the Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
There's still "a lot to do" when it comes to behind-the-scenes diversity in British TV – but what's being done?
Behind-the-scenes in UK TV is still lacking representation, but what do those in the industry and those trying to combat that have to say about it?
Has 'diversity' just become a buzzword across industries? It's a question that many from marginalised and underrepresented communities have been left asking themselves these days. Where five years ago, it seemed at the top of plenty of people's agendas, for many it seems as though efforts have slowed, presenting the pessimistic possibility that it was all just a small drop in the ocean of racism, bias and micro-aggressions. When it comes to TV, though, many casual viewers may attribute representation to the people who we see on our screens. While there is a slew of rising and established actors from all different kinds of backgrounds, what many TV fans may not even consider is who is also behind the cameras. The runners, researchers, producers, camera operators, production assistants (and plenty more) all make up the integral process of crafting everything we see on the small screen. From the world of glossy dramas to high-stakes documentaries and everything in between, it's as important to promote diversity behind-the-scenes just as much as in front of the camera. But it's a well-known fact that, on the whole, things could be a lot better in terms of who we're seeing not only crafting and directing, but also in a range of BTS roles that have room for progression and genuine change within the industry. Trying to lead the charge in that facet of the industry is ScreenSkills, an industry-led skills body for UK animation, children's TV, film, games, high-end TV, television, VFX (visual effects) and immersive media. Providing training, career advice, sector insight and opportunities in order to build a skilled and inclusive workforce, ScreenSkills has long remained dedicated to breaking down the barriers of getting into the screen industries. But have things in the industry as a whole – relating to accessibility, the barrier to entry and the diversity of the workforce – improved? Posing that very question to Chief Executive of ScreenSkills, Laura Mansfield, she admitted that things have – "but slowly". "There are lots of changes required right across the board, which is why diversity and inclusion is a central pillar of our five-year strategy. We know from our most recent research project 'Sizing Up' that most of the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) gains have occurred at more junior levels of the industry, so there is good access to breaking in, but then progressing through and up to the most senior levels is what we need to focus on improving in all areas and sub-sectors together. "ScreenSkills' Trainee Finder Programme which runs across High End TV, Film and Children's last year had a 72 per cent out of London, 34 per cent minority ethnic and 24 per cent disabled cohort, which is excellent and necessarily over indexing. These are the areas as an industry we need to focus on supporting people to come in and then progress through." She continues: "One of the big success stories of recent years in the screen industries has been the TV industry coming together around TAP (The TV Access Project) which was stimulated by Jack Thorne's Edinburgh speech, focused on improving access and inclusion for Deaf, Disabled and Neurodivergent people working in the UK television industry. "Work has been undertaken to make sets and offices more accessible as well as to support other access needs and promote greater understanding of hidden disabilities. ScreenSkills hosts the employment resources hub on our website as well as new skills checklists and job profiles for a role called Access Coordinator. This is a new, important and growing job role that is responsible for ensuring productions are accessible to those with different needs." Aiming to "demystify creative sector pathways for young people (such as film and television) to ensure the next generation of creative professionals better reflects the UK's diverse talent pool", Discover! Creative Careers Week has expanded to a month-long programme this November to connect 100,000 young people across the UK with creative industries. The initiative sees ScreenSkills being the lead delivery partner, with it also being funded by the Department for Culture Media and Sport. Describing the government-funded programme as "an amazing and unique industry-led programme", Mansfield explained: "It pulls together effort, energy and focus from across all the different creative industries from TV, advertising and games to craft, heritage, music and theatre, to support school-aged students gain insight into careers in the creative industries." She continues: "There is a diverse range of careers in the sector, and that is exciting. Naturally, we predominantly think of the performance roles, but there are even more professions behind the scenes. The programme has been offering support to careers advisors, empowering them to talk more confidently about the broad range of jobs and careers they can get kids excited about, roles they might never have considered. "The focus of Discover! Creative Careers, which revolves around an annual key campaign moment and this year is taking place across the entire month of November, is on 11–18 year-olds at school and college, creating workplace encounters with industry and highlighting real jobs for them. "The goal is to awaken a broad range of children and young people, schools, careers advisors and parents to the vast array of careers and opportunities within the Creative Industry – many of which they or their communities may have never thought possible. Our ambition is to reach 100,000 children and young people this year." It can often be easier said than done trying to lower those barriers to entry, with Mansfield saying: "To break down barriers, we first must raise awareness. That age-old phrase, 'if you can't see it, you can't be it' resonates strongly. "Then, we show parents and teachers that the creative industry has a broad range of sustainable careers on offer – people don't tend to think beyond actor or dancer, and those are fabulous of course, but there are thousands of other professions working in the Creative Industry, from accountants, lawyers, technicians, editors, carpenters, electricians, games designers, to makeup artists, hairdressers, project managers and many more. And then it's about creating and supporting links between schools, colleges and industry so that young people can have the chance to gain experience locally. "And there are barriers around socio-economic backgrounds, disability, ethnicity and age. The goal is for the entire Creative Industries to address these barriers, supported by government, by systematically recognising them and then breaking them down. Broadening access so that the creative industries look and feel more like the whole of the UK is the goal here. We need diversity and plurality of perspectives to keep being a world-leading modern sector." Across a wealth of Pass the Mic interviews, many stars and those behind the camera have commented on the lack of racial diversity which filters into the kinds of stories, narratives and viewpoints we often see on our screens. Actress Tamara Lawrance admitted:"I think a lot more could be done. I think there's just a lot of optics. "Sometimes, people say, 'Oh, it's such a good time to be a Black actor because there's just so much more work now.' And I mean, in some ways, that's true. In other ways, it's not. I think sometimes these things come in waves, where there's a period in which diverse work feels very popular and then times where, all of a sudden, all of that kind of traction becomes stagnated or the investment is rescinded." She said: "Or as you say, people will will pick up a project and then kind of sit on it, so it doesn't get developed. I know from a lot of these projects that I've been on that behind the scenes is not very diverse at all. Sometimes it can feel like lip service to change because, really, we need more producers of global majority, people in the sort of gatekeeping positions – producers, directors, showrunners – we need more global majority showrunners. "For me, I would like to see more people of global majority in those positions of where real systemic change can be made. If it always falls down to casting, we've seen that come and go." Similarly, writer Kaamil Shah said of the push for diversity, especially in regards to the Muslim community: “To be honest, I’m not sure I’ve seen it. I’m not sure I’ve seen much of an outreach to find specifically diverse shows and I think we’re still finding the same barriers and the same kind of sense that really diverse and different shows about my community and other communities. I think they’re still finding it very difficult to penetrate that kind of concrete ceiling." He also added: "It’s damaging that it’s been such a struggle for a British Asian showrunner to break through. It hasn’t really happened. There’s not a British Asian drama showrunner in this country. I would hope that it’s something that the commissioners are really thinking about and making active steps to find those people, hopefully I’m one of them. Having had a bit of experience under by belt. But yeah, it’s still really challenging. Reflecting on the five years since the death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, director Poppy Jay admitted: "I don’t think enough change has happened, quite frankly. But I am seeing directors, producers from a minority ethnic background. I don’t think it’s enough, I think we need to see more of us. The tide is turning. "In terms of representation and the D-word, diversity, that’s just a conversation that we keep having all the time – honestly, it’s getting so boring. I feel like sometimes we are put into a category and it still feels like a ticking exercise, it’s not the norm, it’s not the mainstream." So, what is some of the feedback that a body like ScreenSkills often hears about the state of diversity behind-the-scenes and how do they remain committed to ensuring there is improvement? Mansfield said: "ScreenSkills is committed to improving diversity. We've put it at the heart of our five-year strategy. We measure it as a KPI, and we have recently updated all our diversity targets for trainers to ensure the range is appropriate and in line with recommendations made by academics. We need to help progress this positive change more quickly. "We are only one part of an ecosystem but we can support those working in the industry to make more long lasting change – whether that's via our initiatives such as the Film Forward programme that supports people from deaf, disabled and neurodiverse backgrounds to gain roles in post-production, or by the free training we offer the broader workforce, in unconscious bias or in how to manage or recruit better. Across the UK, different Nations and regions face different challenges and have different demographics and therefore, employers require different levels and types of support to diversify their workforces. "It's that old adage about teaching someone to fish – that's how you have long lasting impact." In regards to the general state of diversity within the TV industry, is there more that continues to need to be done? Mansfield admits that while programmes like Discover! Creative Careers are an "excellent foundation stone" to broadening access, "we then need to focus as an industry on helping people progress". She explained: "ScreenSkills recently conducted a landmark study of the screen industry and found that it is in the mid-to-senior level where there is a particular diversity problem in the TV industry. When it comes to ethnic diversity, this is variable within the industry itself – so some departments, such as technical and craft, are more representative than subsectors like editorial, post-production or production management. "The Creative Diversity Network (CDN) publish an annual TV diversity report called Diamond. The most recent report reveals that some areas where there has been focus are improving – such as writers, where 25.1 per cent of contributions to TV are from 'Black, Asian and minority ethnic' writers (compared to general UK workforce estimates of 17 per cent). "However, while representation of 'Black, Asian and minority ethnic' groups has improved overall from 13.4 per cent to 14 per cent in the past year, that is still lower than the 17 per cent of the UK workforce from 'Black, Asian and minority ethnic' groups. Diversity on screen is improving and there have been good strides made but there's still a lot to do." More recently, Susan Wokoma revealed her thoughts around why the conversation around diversity is growing tiresome for many. "I'm not about banging on doors and begging people. I only want to work with the people who want to work with me and who see me. And if you don't, then that's completely fine. But I think, unfortunately, it was a trend," she said. "Diversity was a trend and now it isn't trendy. Even though, the thing that's really funny about it is that it makes money. All you've got to do is look at Sinners, it made an untold amount of money, which means that there is an audience out there that's absolutely gagging for these stories. But people still don't want to make them." When speaking to me about more needs to be done, Mansfield shares a stark fact that "a recent report, Black in Focus, found that 92 per cent of Black people in the TV industry have experienced at least one incidence of racism at work". She said: "One of their recommendations to counter this is to formalise recruitment and promotion practices across the industry. We then need to support individuals to progress and develop. That's what programmes like our High-End TV Leaders of Tomorrow focuses on – supporting people from all backgrounds. That is how you make systemic change." Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Susan Wokoma on her short film Dark Skin Bruises Differently: "This wasn't the time to be centring whiteness in my stories"
The actress, writer and director chats to Pass the Mic about her new short film, Dark Skin Bruises Differently, developing it as a feature and rejecting "AI slop".
Susan Wokoma may be best known for providing audiences with plenty of laughs in the likes of Chewing Gum, Cheaters and even Taskmaster, but the actress and writer is taking on a different kind of challenge with her short film, Dark Skin Bruises Differently. Having made her on-screen debut as a teenager, Wokoma is no stranger to the industry, but is forging a path behind-the-scenes as a director and writer, with Dark Skin Bruises Differently getting its premiere at the esteemed BFI London Film Festival (in partnership with American Express) earlier this month. Wokoma tells me that she "feels more at home at LFF than really anywhere else" so it really was the perfect place for her short film to debut. "I love LFF because it's full of really smart, brilliant audience members who really, really love film. I think the thing that really got me was you have a shorts programme where you have eight to nine films being shown together. So, a lot of people are buying tickets to a shorts programme not knowing what these films are about," she says. "They're not going for big names, they're just going to see a selection of shorts. I think actually, the people that buy tickets to that sort of screening, they're the real heart of film festivals." The film itself is a staggering one and at just 10 minutes long, is a magnificent feat of storytelling that interrogates the education system, bias and micro-aggressions. Wokoma not only directs and has penned the film, but also stars as teacher Ms Lawson. A well-meaning teacher that most would dream of having in their own school days, Ms Lawson is quick to defend student Maria Obasi, who is labelled a liar by her other teachers. We watch on as teachers use coded language to describe Maria, with the final shot of the film eventually revealing her to just be a young girl. Because of the colour of her skin and the adultification that can often happen regarding Black children, we're made to think of Maria as one way by the teachers but in reality, she's nothing more than a child. Wokoma reveals that when she originally wrote the story, Ms Lawson was actually white. It became the nugget of information that Wokoma almost dropped like a small bomb to LFF audience members after they'd seen it. The original idea for the film was always intended for it to be a feature-length one, and it's one that Wokoma is actively working on as we speak. The short itself was "done as a reaction to the boring artist killing process of development", Wokoma shares. She admits at that point, she "just wanted to make something". The process itself involved taking her ideas within her original pitch document and the aspects of the main story, and then thinking about how to craft them into a shorter form film. The change in casting and making Ms Lawson a Black woman was one that made sense for the direction of the story but also, as Wokoma says, is its own form of narrative reclamation in an industry that may be forgetting diverse stories exist. "I was thinking of casting and I thought – actually, I think by default, a lot of projects that are about racism, you have to have a person of colour at the centre of that story and they're coming up against racism by normally, a white person," Wokoma says. "Look, we've seen DEI rollbacks. All of a sudden, nobody's that interested in making diverse stories. Casting announcements are getting whiter and lighter by the day. I just felt like this wasn't the time to be centring whiteness in my stories, even if it is to talk about racism. "I think that there's always going to be an element of me writing for myself, because I have to. I do it unashamedly because I refuse to wait around for people to give me opportunities. So I just thought, 'Well, what does it change of the story if I make her Black?'. And actually, I found it much more dramatically interesting if you have this Black woman who used to be a Black child, who understands the adultification that happens with Black children and yet, is faced with a dilemma where she has to choose between safeguarding this child and saving her job." She continues: "For me, that's just a much more interesting story. So yeah, there is a feature film. But I think the shock of changing the Ms Lawson character, which only happened last year when we shot it after having the story in my head for decades, I'm now looking at the feature film going, 'Okay, now, what would that make the film? How would that change the film?'. I'm actually much more excited and energised to write that that version." Screening Dark Skin Bruises Differently ended up also being accidental market research for that very casting change, Wokoma laughs. "I think we also have to respond to the climate," she says. "We don't need a story of a white Ms Lawson right now, maybe it would have been interesting a few years ago but I'm just not interested in that now." It's refreshing to hear an actress, writer and director speak so candidly about the state of storytelling in the UK right now, especially when there are conversations around whether executives are actively "dumbing down" shows and films in order to appeal to wider audiences and those who scroll on their phones while watching. But those ideas take on a more damaging note when we're assuming audiences need to be infantilised and can only learn about racism – and the impact of it – through a primarily white lens. "The reason why I'm standing quite strong on this is because I grew up reading books and stories about people who don't look like me. I think Persuasion by Jane Austen absolutely slaps," Wokoma says. "I have the absolute pleasure of of going into worlds and being completely swept up with them. I don't need to walk in the shoes of those Asian characters in Bend It Like Beckham to absolutely love that film and it always be my go-to. I think that is the superpower that I have as an audience member, is that I don't have to have me looking back at me from the screen in order to empathise. "But for a lot of people, they really, really, really struggle with that. Or they're threatened by any hint that changes that, ie Little Mermaid or Lord of the Rings, a fictional f**king magical land." She continues: "I think that in order to maintain my sanity as an artist I am – and it's not like I have done really ever – but I just feel more compelled to not write stories that are about quote, unquote, appeasing to the masses. Because you look at something like Chewing Gum – that was never made for an American audience, and yet it was a huge international success. "It all comes from what other stories that I want to write and now, I don't want to centre whiteness. I'm not interested – I'm not interested in begging, I'm not interested in going, 'Oh, please see me.' Ultimately, first and foremost, a film has to be entertaining, interesting and moving. And so I just felt that by making Ms Lawson Black, it was a more entertaining, moving, interesting film." The casting change is one that Wokoma says jokingly that some people may get sick and tired of her talking about, but it's important to understand. "Ms Lawson's been a Black child so she understands, whether she wants to admit it or not. She has definitely had those experiences where she has been distrusted, where she's been accused of things that she didn't do because there's a criminality that's associated with Black children," Wokoma says. If you're looking for an example of that in action, all you have to do is watch Netflix's The Perfect Neighbour, Wokoma states. It was just the other day on set, she says, when an older actor shared that his own childhood neighbours used to set their dogs on him and other Black children in the area. "He had white neighbours who trained their dogs to attack Black children, and that was part of the fun and games," she says. That happened in "multicultural South-East London", Wokoma shares, the very same place that Dark Skin Bruises Differently is set. "I find it really interesting when, as Black people, there are things that you know of each other – pains – and then when you betray each other," Wokoma says, which only further underlines that captivating dynamic between Ms Lawson and Maria. Crafting such nuanced storytelling and making the non-visible visible in a short film like Dark Skin Bruises Differently isn't easy, but how will Wokoma go about ensuring all of that is captured in the feature as well? Whilst the micro-aggressions that we see in the short will make it into the feature, there's also the important notion of bringing Maria up to be more front and centre. That reveal of Maria as just a small child is one of the cruxes of the short, but there's a lot more to explore in the longer film. "What is it in Ms Lawson that Maria sees and needs? What is it in Maria that Ms Lawson sees and needs? It's really about their relationship and how it ultimately fractures, that is the more concerning thing," Wokoma says. Figuring out that character dynamic is also part of working something out in terms of Wokoma's own childhood, she tells me. "There's a reason why the two short films I've made, one of which I've directed, Dark Skin Bruises Differently, and then another, Love the Sinner – which I wrote but didn't direct – is about Black female girlhood, childhood. Because I don't feel like it's documented. "I don't feel like waiting for anyone else to do it. So it's what I'm going to do until I feel like I've exercised whatever I've exercised and then, make some other stories. "But for me, I really want to centre a quiet, complex child. I think that there is too much that's demanded where someone needs to be exceptional and literally magical." She adds: "But I'm like, what is it about this quiet child that Ms Lawson sees? What is it about this potential that she sees? That's going to be the heart of the story. The micro-aggressions is the petri dish within where they both live in, but it's definitely not going to be a film about micro-aggressions. I think it's boring." Looking to the future, Wokoma's feature film version of Dark Skin Bruises Differently is something she's actively working on, and as a result of the reception to it at various screenings and festivals, Wokoma has started work on it with her valued team. Admitting that she has been "in development processes with the wrong people," Wokoma says that over the course of her career, it's been integral to explore who her "film family" is. "I just wanted to make sure that I was working with people that I trust and who would be honest. I feel like it's taken my whole career to find this gang. And so now I feel ready and confident to make this film," she beams. Having had various roles over the years (including in Enola Holmes, and lending her voice to World of Warcraft), what kinds of stories and narratives does Wokoma hope to be a part of, both as an actor and as a director or writer? "I just want to stay away from AI slop," she says. "I want to stay away from people who are consumed by algorithms and the assumptions of what people want. I want to stay away from anyone who thinks that audiences are stupid, therefore we have to make our work stupid. "I just want to work with people and on things where people believe in it, [where] nobody's testing the water and then abandoning it. I think that artists have to prevail in this absolute s**t show of not knowing what's real and what isn't. I want to work with collaborators and people who are not like awful fascists – that would be the dream." But also, as Wokoma shares, it's about working with people who not only believe in what they're doing but also truly do believe in the power of art, something she's not coy about anymore. I can't help but bring up a particularly poignant Instagram post that Wokoma shared that revealed that she'd watched "a much-lauded film" that was set in London but "not one character was played by a dark-skinned woman. No East Asian actors of any gender to be seen either," her social media post continues. The post itself doesn't name the film and neither does Wokoma when we chat, but it does speak to a wider casting problem in the industry, she tells me. "The reason why it shocked me is because people get up in arms when there is Black woman playing a f**king mermaid, when there are Black people in Game of Thrones, which also has dragons. People get up in arms when there's Black people in Star Wars – it's about stars and there's an alien called Jar Jar Binks, but people will get upset if they see a dark face. "I think the reason why it hit me is because I thought, 'Well then, where are we allowed to be?' If we can't be in modern London, a working class story..." Wokoma admittedly loved the film in question, but still found the "complete casting erasure" to be "really upsetting". "I think we've been shown that people don't actually care about diversity and inclusion," she says. "So what I hope is that, and this is something that my friend Abby Ajayi said to me, that hopefully the erasure will set us free." She continues: "I'm not about banging on doors and begging people. I only want to work with the people who want to work with me and who see me. And if you don't, then that's completely fine. But I think, unfortunately, it was a trend. "Diversity was a trend and now it isn't trendy. Even though, the thing that's really funny about it is that it makes money. All you've got to do is look at Sinners, it made an untold amount of money, which means that there is an audience out there that's absolutely gagging for these stories. But people still don't want to make them." Wokoma's outlook is a refreshing one and she embraces it all as a form of freedom. "It's about being dogmatic and absolutely singular in your mind of the stories that you want to tell with the people that you want to tell it with, that's how I've seen it," she says. "The erasure is my freedom." Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Riot Women's Taj Atwal: 'I was so nervous, but it's really important to tell this story now'
Taj Atwal sits down with Pass the Mic to chat about her role as Nisha in BBC's Riot Women, working with Sally Wainwright and the joy of comedy shows.
*Warning: This article contains spoilers for Riot Women.* With previous roles in the likes of Hullraisers, Line of Duty and The Control Room, Taj Atwal isn't a stranger to appearing in a talked-about TV show. But now starring in the critically lauded Riot Women as police officer Nisha Lal, Atwal describes the experience of working on a series helmed by Sally Wainwright as a "beautiful moment" that she'd been waiting for. Having been a fan of Wainwright for "as long as I can remember", Atwal had always wanted to work with the Happy Valley creator. So when Wainwright herself said she'd love for Atwal to play Nisha in the series, it clearly meant a lot to the actress. "I couldn't cry because I was actually unwell," Atwal laughs. "I just felt so emotional and it felt so right, the right story to be a part of. I'm so honoured that she's given it to me to bring it alive." The six-part series is a welcome addition to BBC One's Sunday night primetime slot, focusing on five menopausal women who decide to form a punk rock band. Atwal's Nisha and Chandeep Uppal's Kam are sisters who join the band as its backing singers but as with any character-driven Wainwright series, Nisha's story is a particularly gripping one. Having been Holly's (Tamsin Greig) police partner whilst she worked on the force, their bond is a strong one even after Holly retires. But as an officer still finding her feet by herself, Nisha is the victim of unwanted attention from fellow officer Rudy (Ben Batt). It's in the second episode that we see things notch up to a whole new uncomfortable level for Nisha, who is working at her desk when Rudy approaches her and gropes her from behind. What starts out as a rumination on misogyny within the police and the ability to call out sexist behaviour in the workplace only gets more dark by the episode, with it becoming all too clear that Nisha's story is one that is inspired by real-life lived experiences and recent headlines. By the fourth episode, Nisha's life is not only endangered by those she was trying to arrest but she is also completely demeaned when Rudy is the one who finds her hanging by the rails of a building, handcuffed. The stomach-churning scenes are ones that will send a shiver down any viewer's spine, especially in light of the 2023 report from Lady Louise Casey that found "institutional racism, sexism and homophobia in the Met". Group chat conversations and instances of photographing victims are unfortunately cases that have unfolded in the real world, but are captured with emotional nuance within Nisha's Riot Women story. The series especially feels like a whirlwind for Atwal who was filming for it last year when the UK anti-immigration riots were unfolding, she tells me. "Sarah Everard had happened not much longer before, a few years ago. All of this stuff is still so fresh, current, painful and real," she says. "You're living it outside in daily life and then you're portraying it on screen. Actually, I thought, 'Gosh, now is so the right time to tell this.' It made me dig deep even more and want to tell it even more authentically and truthfully because people are suffering it, suffering the stuff that Nisha is. It also reinforced to me what a genius Sally is, really reflecting life so truthfully." The sad reality of current affairs only added to the nerves that Atwal had surrounding the series, as she recalls: "Obviously at the time when we first started [filming], things were just a little bit calmer. Then, all the race riots were happening. "I was like, 'Right, OK, this is really important now to tell this story.' Then we had another calm moment and it's come back again. I was just worried at the start that people would think, 'But that doesn't really happen in real life, that doesn't happen anymore.' "It goes to show that it is happening and it's continuously happening. You kind of feel some responsibility but really more than anything, just to tell it as truthfully as possible." Wainwright also worked closely with a police advisor, Lisa, to ensure that Nisha’s story accurately reflects the experiences of a police officer. "She has this wealth of information from somebody who was actually in the police force for many, many years up north. When I spoke to her, obviously you want to say, 'Yeah but to this extreme?' But then you look at someone like Sarah and what happened with that male police officer. Obviously, [Sarah] didn't work in the police force but [Lisa] said there is misogyny in the police force, there is racism in the police force all the time. "I just wanted to honour what Sally had already done, the work she's already done, the research. All I'm doing is taking that and saying, 'Right, what can I do to bring this to life in the best way possible?' Lisa was there with us on set all the time, making sure that even the scene in the alleyway where the lads attack me – she was on top of that, of exactly how I would react as a police officer." Nisha doesn't agree with the way that her former partner Holly handles the information she tells her in confidence, with the consequences only creating a rift between the once close pair of friends. Atwal herself agrees with how Holly called out people in the situation but Wainwright's writing paves the way for more realistic storytelling. "The reality is that people are so scared for so many different reasons and don't speak out," she remarks. "That scene is so important, and the subsequent fallout with Holly, to reflect actually the truth of a lot of what women go through – [they] are afraid to say anything." Whilst the final episode does see Nisha join the band on stage in a powerful moment of empowerment, we're left on a bit of an open-ended note regarding Rudy and Nisha's place within the force post-attack. At the time of our interview and of writing, Riot Women's future hasn't been confirmed so we don't know if a season 2 is in store. However, if it was to come to fruition, Atwal would be interested in seeing the full ramifications of what happens between Nisha and Rudy. "He's obviously seething. It's totally obviously Sally's show and I think she would continue to tell that in the most truthful way. We would all like it tied in a nice, neat bow. Like, Nisha goes in and says, 'Yes, this is what's happened', everything's going to be fine and Rudy's going to be sacked. But is that the reality of life? I'm not sure." We may not know exactly where Nisha's story is going to turn just yet, but there's certainly plenty to work with regarding her character. While working with Wainwright was a constant source of inspiration for Atwal, Wainwright was also "one of the most precise directors" Atwal's ever worked with, with the experience feeling "liberating because you feel so safe in her hands and whatever she tells you to do". Wainwright was "open and accommodating" to changing Nisha's initial character name to "a more Punjabi" one, Atwal tells me, which made the character that bit more personal to her. As for the response to the series thus far, Atwal has loved all of the messages from fans of all genders, not just women. While it is an unashamed series about female rage, Atwal says it just goes to show that Riot Women hasn't only struck a chord with who they thought it would. "I haven't had an experience like it," the actress tells me, gushing over the leading stars of the show. "They're all such brilliant actresses who have such a wealth of life experience and being able to soak that up every day, you feel like you're just enveloped." Riot Women perfectly toes the line between being a hard-hitting drama with plenty of flecks of humour, a medium Atwal has been used to in her previous roles. "I will always do comedy, no matter what. I always do one a year because I love the joy it brings people and it feels so good. I find that world not so much easier, I just find comfort in doing comedy. It just comes easier to me," she says. "I think it was Alan Ayckbourn – and I might be completely misquoting this – but he said something like, 'Life is one big comedy punctuated by moments of sadness.' I just love that quote and it kind of feels right for that world. "Obviously the world at large is going through a wave of awfulness, but that's what makes those moments land more truthfully. I think you feel it more." In terms of the stories she hopes to tell in the future, Atwal admits that she's "really been digging deep" for inspiration and new narratives. One of those sources has come by way of the book Asians in Britain: 400 Years of History by Rozina Visram, which includes "so many real stories of Asians who made an impact, who did notable things", Atwal says. "I would love to see those on screen. Yes, we get the fictional stories but there seems to be a bit of a dip at the moment. I mean, there's some great scripts, but then also a lot linked to the female protagonist getting married. It just feels a bit outdated, that's not our only narrative. "So I'm really kind of putting pen to paper at the moment and I would love actual great writers to bring those stories to life, it would be amazing." Because while TV fans have only seen Atwal in front of the camera thus far, the actress admits that she would love to get behind it in a writing or producing role one day. Even between juggling quite a few projects right now (including the second season of Sky's Sweetpea, which she describes as an "incredible, lovely environment"), Atwal tries to find the time to write, saying she loves crafting stories for other people and envisioning how different actors could bring her tales to life. Those may be exciting additional notches to add to her belt in the future but for now, Atwal thinks there has been a shift in the right direction for Asian representation behind the scenes. However, just the notion of having to speak about it also means that there's a long way to go, she admits. "We're never going to stop existing so why wouldn't you want us on screen as well? We're not hidden in the world, we're alongside you. And also – isn't it boring just seeing the same thing when you want to see a bit of everything?" Riot Women airs on BBC One on Sundays at 9pm, with all episodes available to stream on iPlayer now. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Documentaries, sketches and specials: Your guide to ITV's Fresh Cuts
ITV's Fresh Cuts is back with another slate of extraordinary and authentic stories, celebrating Black History Month and UK Disability History Month. This year, the broadcaster is bringing together six daring, diverse and unapologetically original programmes from people of colour and/or deaf, disabled or neurodivergent led production companies. Fresh Cuts is funded by ITV's £80m Diversity Commissioning Spend, and champions inventive storytelling, fearless perspectives and fresh talent. This year's line-up features The Assembly director Céin McGillicuddy and bold new creative voices Kevin Muyolo (Daddy’s Super Yacht) and Tamara Barton-Campbell (Renaissance Studios). So, what is on offer? Read on for all the new and upcoming titles part of Fresh Cuts 2025. New and upcoming In Convo Where to watch: ITVX Broadcaster Ras Kwame anchors a special film in the style of LeBron James's The Shop. Viewers can expect unfiltered, honest conversations with cultural icons – offering rare access to stories, reflections and truths, as well as celebrating the richness, resilience and cultural impact of the Black experience in the UK and beyond. Those featured in the documentary include Dawn Butler MP, Derek Chisora, Fuse ODG, Jermaine Jenas, DJ AG Online and Charlene White. Say! Less! Where to watch: ITVX Say! Less! is Fresh Cuts' first ever sketch commission. Creator Kevin Muyolo exclusively told RadioTimes.com of the series: "If The Real McCoy and Monty Python had a mischievous Gen Z grandchild, it would look something like Say! Less!. "Black British comedy has always had brilliance, with the likes of The Real McCoy, The Lenny Henry Show and Famalam, but it's rarely been allowed to be this absurd, irreverent or eclectic. "With Say! Less!, we're tipping our hat to the pioneers of Black British comedy while cheekily rewriting the rules of British comedy." Say! Less! features Princess Khumalo, Esmonde Cole, Nkhanise Phiri Kanisa and Wes Defoe. Union Black: African and Caribbean Brits: From Culture Clash to Unit Where to watch: ITVX This documentary explores the relationship between Black African and Caribbean communities in the UK. From stereotypes and rivalries to solidarity and shared pride, it's a candid, funny and sometimes uncomfortable look at the evolving identity of Black Britain. Union Black features Richard Blackwood, Llewella Gideon, ENNY, Afua Hirsch, Jazzie B, Travis Jay, KG tha Comedian, Eddie Kadi, Vanessa Kingori, Ola Labib, Slim, Wretch 32 and Curtis Walker. The Re-Store Where to watch: ITV1 and ITVX on Monday 27th October The Re-Store is an unscripted special that blends sneaker restoration with heartfelt stories, celebrity surprises and cultural history. Director Tamara Barton-Campbell exclusively told RadioTimes.com: "The ReStore is here to stay — it’s a fresh take on storytelling from real sneaker specialists. This month, we’re celebrating the best of Black British culture, showcasing some of the most exciting talent in the UK. And next year, we’re taking it to the World Cup." Blind Matchmakers Where to watch: ITV1 and ITVX on Monday 3rd November Blind Matchmakers is a bold dating format that flips the script. In the series, a trio of fierce, funny and unfiltered blind love experts coach blind and sighted influencers through the highs, lows and awkward truths of dating. Hosted by Lucy Edwards, the series also features Lani Good, Claire Sisk, Joy Addo, Queenie, Blind Ian and Blind Kitty. Play Time <img src="https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/3/2025/10/PlayTime-ITV-Fresh-Cuts-Still-02-Left-to-Right-Cast-Chris-Barlow-Bec-Hill-Stuart-Laws-Inel-Tomlinson-Aruhan-Galieva-and-Cariad-Lloyd-377d65a.png" width="4153" height="2455" alt="Chris Barlow, Bec Hill, Stuart Laws, Inel Tomlinson, Aruhan Galieva and Cariad Lloyd." title="PlayTime - ITV Fresh Cuts - Still 02 - Left to Right - Cast - Chris Barlow, Bec Hill, Stuart Laws, Inel Tomlinson, Aruhan Galieva and Cariad Lloyd" /> Where to watch: ITV1 and ITVX on Monday 10th November In Play Time, neurodiverse primary school children become the writers of an original play performed that very same evening by leading actors and comedians. The series features Cariad Lloyd, Inel Tomlinson, Stuart Laws, Bec Hill, Aruhan Galieva and Chris Barlow. Fresh Cuts is available to watch on ITVX. Check out more of our Entertainment coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
The Man in My Basement's Nadia Latif: "There will be people who disagree with my interpretations, but that's okay"
Nadia Latif, director of The Man in My Basement, sits down with Pass the Mic to discuss the film being a "totally American" one, as well as how it deals with ownership and history.
There will be a raft of questions you're left with after watching The Man in My Basement, that's for certain. Now available to stream on Disney+ in the UK, the film is a feature debut for Nadia Latif, whose career has been very much grounded in the theatre world. Latif has helmed stage productions for the Royal Shakespeare Company, Almeida and Donmar Warehouse (to name a few) and was the Associate Director of the Young Vic Theatre. Her impressive career journey also includes directing short films (White Girl, which was funded by the BFI and They Heard Him Shout Allahu Akbar for Film4). Now, she's tackling the mind-bending source material of Walter Mosley's 2004 novel, The Man in My Basement. She came across the book whilst studying English Literature at university. The course – as this writer very much knows and can vouch for – is one that is "dominated by writers who are white and predominantly male", Latif explains. Having read a lot of colonial and post-colonial fiction at the time, Latif came across Mosley's novel "by accident" when it was left on a table. "It just struck me as being so unusual. I didn't know what was going to happen, page by page. "Then it was both dealing with these really massive ideas about history and evil and yet, at the same time, it was about this quite small community in America. It was really funny and it was kind of filthy." Describing the novel as a "wild ride", 20 years on, Latif heard that a film company had the rights to it and was making a film. It was a natural yes for her because the memory of how the novel first made her feel was so palpable. That feeling was what she wanted to recreate for the viewer when they first sit down to watch The Man in My Basement. "I think the job when you're adapting anything, but particularly when you're adapting a book, is to try and recreate the effect that the book had on the first reader," she explains. "Which is to say, I think even if you're dealing with a piece of historical fiction, you're not dealing with it as though it was a piece of history, because it was a current piece of literature to the initial reader. "So you've got to think, relative to now, how do I recreate that experience? And so with The Man in My Basement, I was really lucky, because I am that original reader. I remember reading this book and I remember how it made me feel." Referring to the two as cousins and not twins, Latif explains that the film, in her opinion, is a lot darker than the book, although she retains that the novel is sadder. Speaking about the fact that the film is "fundamentally me looking at the book", Latif says that her perspective on the subject matter "as an African woman looking at this American and global story" is one way of viewing. But she knows that perspective will understandably change based on who's watching. The film sees Charles (Corey Hawkins) – an African American man who's a bit down on his luck and stuck in a rut – agree to rent out his basement to the enigmatic white businessman who turns up on his doorstep randomly one day, Anniston Bennet (Willem Dafoe). As you can imagine with any kind of pulsating psychological thriller, there's a lot more that lies beneath the surface than that general premise. The film packs in symbolism and subtle references that will leave the viewer thinking about ownership, wealth, race and who gets to 'own' history. Whilst the book is set in 2004, Latif wanted to push the timeline back and has set the film in 1994 due to the year being "an extraordinary moment in global Black culture". "There was this proliferation of African American culture being sold to us in a certain way through sitcoms like Fresh Prince and The Cosby Show. There was a certain version of Black success being sold through music, sport and all these things," she explains. "So you've got that happening in America. And then, of course, on the other side of the Atlantic, you have the genocide of a million people in Rwanda. That, to me, felt like a very interesting juxtaposition between versions of being Black. "There are two pieces of news that occur on the television in the film. One of them is a report from the trial of OJ Simpson, which also happened in 1994, and then the recurring news of the Rwandan genocide." That contrast in itself shows the "different scales of violence" within the film, Latif says, highlighting "one person and the things that they could do and then, a million people". In a bid to ring true to the classic tension we see build up in any good thriller, Latif also explains that being on the cusp of the internet was also integral to the film. It's why so much of the film is centred around books and the notion of searching for meaning through them. While the film may initially centre on the dynamic between Charles and Anniston, it quickly becomes apparent that it's packed with plenty of meaty themes. It may be set in the '90s, but the conversations around historical artefact ownership and history in general remain ever-present, even now in 2025. "There's no point in history where this isn't relevant because I think we're always ignoring a conflict on the television," Latif says. "I think we don't care about Black African lives generally dying – I think this is a recurring theme of modern history." Latif explains that whilst many may simply look at the news and label what they see as a "mysterious African conflict" with no desire to understand further, "it's not that complicated". "Black and brown people are dying in their hundreds of thousands. I don't think that's exclusive to Black and brown people, but I think there is a tendency to care about African lives less in the Western media. I think that if we were to have set the film today, [Charles] would have been ignoring the news of an African conflict." She continues: "But I do think that the conversation that we are currently having about the return of African artefacts to their countries of origin is alive at the moment in a way that is interesting, but also very complicated. I don't think there are clear answers about why and under what conditions those things should be returned. "I do believe that they should be returned, but actually what the value of them is. I was very moved watching Mati Diop's film Dahomey, which is about the return of artefacts to Benin. I was incredibly moved by these people being able to see their own history and it is very beautiful. But the film ends with a discourse about whether it matters. Does it? Is it going to make life better? "I think that's always the mysterious power that history holds over us, it is important but we can't really put our finger on why. It's like it's something that's spiritually important, but definitely doesn't put food on your table." View oEmbed on the source website If the box above is not showing, you may need to change your privacy settings. In the Radio Times site footer, click ‘Manage Privacy Settings’. Under ‘Site Vendors’, consent to ‘YouTube’, then press Save & Exit. Latif adds: "I think that the conversation about artefacts being returned is a separate conversation to the conversation about reparations. It's separate, but adjacent. They're cousins. I think that those conversations are also incredibly interesting. "Can you put a monetary value on the suffering of millions of people? How do we decide what that number is? I think those conversations are really alive today." Whilst one can look at The Man in My Basement and see the way it interrogates those larger themes of ownership, it also looks at it on a more personal level also. Charles is in a family home that holds so much emotional value, as well as historical value, which leads him to wonder more about his own history. It's about that feeling of "what is it to own your home?" Latif says, with Charles having a remarkable understanding of the fact that this is where his family is from – but is it? "We don't know where they were from when they came from Africa," Latif explains. "I think that is a very interesting schism in African American history; what point can you trace yourself back to and when does it start at a slavery plantation?" The interesting thing in the film is that Charles contests that his family were never enslaved, something that was passed down to him by his mother who believed the same. It's a unique tension to America that Latif wanted to capture in the film and is "totally an American story". The director never once thought of setting The Man in My Basement on this side of the pond, even though there's plenty of denial within Britain's own history, Latif jokes. When the conversation turns to easter eggs and symbols she put in to the film, Latif lights up further referencing Lone Ranger, Killer of Sheep and Moby Dick. It's clear that depending on what you bring to the film, you'll likely finish watching it with a different outlook than perhaps the person sat next to you. "I think it's Arthur Jafar who said: 'My work is for Black people, but white people get something from it.' I just think that's a great way to make things. I know who I'm making it for and I know what their experience of it will be because I'm also Black. I'm not every version of Black, I'm my own version of Black. "There will be people who disagree with my interpretations of things, that's okay. The whole audience can never have the same experience because we're different. To try and give a flattened out universal experience is just not true, it can't happen. So you might as well embrace it," Latif says. Whilst the film may divide opinion and certainly get people talking, that's really the essence of what Latif has set out to do in both her theatre and film work. "To encourage people to have different responses based on who they are and that you're not going for something universal, you're going for something incredibly specific," she states. As for what the future holds both on screen and on stage, Latif's goal is a simple one: to surprise. While she says that the notion of leaving audiences uncomfortable is "slightly overstated", she doesn't want to create art that has any easy answers. "I think it's overstated that people want to go to the cinema or to the theatre to see themselves reflected back exactly. I think that, in many ways, I'm disappointed when I go and I feel like I know exactly who these characters are or this situation is. I want to see people put in surprising situations or dilemmas. "I feel like my goal is always for somebody to see themselves in a way that they have never seen themselves before. Because I also think that, even if you have an audience who are incredibly different or diverse ... if you can put them all in a position of surprise, that's weirdly democratic because everybody is united in not knowing what the hell is going to happen next." She concludes: "I feel like my work is hopefully trying to always just be disruptive, to disrupt how people understand themselves and the world around them." The Man in My Basement is available to stream on Disney+. You can sign up to Disney+ from £4.99 a month now. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
"No official quotas, but lots of pressure": How does London Film Festival strike such a diverse balance?
What goes into crafting a memorable, one-of-a-kind film festival line-up? LFF programmer Grace Barber-Plentie chats to Pass the Mic about the hard work that goes into the world famous event.
Well and truly in the throngs of London Film Festival now, it's the time of year for cinephiles to light up London in search of the hottest new releases, eye-opening panel talks and much more. Year on year, the line-up never fails to impress the masses, with anticipated opening night wonders (this year's was Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery) to films at the top of many people's watchlists and under-the-radar gems that introduce audiences to emerging filmmakers. It's no easy feat, but it's one that London Film Festival programmer Grace Barber-Plentie takes in her stride, with this year marking her fifth in the role. As the film programmer for LFF and BFI Flare, there's a certain amount of pressure on Barber-Plentie and her team that they put on themselves, she admits, but it really is a case of teamwork makes the dreamwork. As Barber-Plentie explains below, there aren't any official quotas in terms of diversity and representation within the LFF line-up, so it's a job that comes with personal responsibility, as well as a genuine desire to see the festival represent the breadth of experiences and people that London has to offer, the best it can. How far in advance do you plan everything or even start having those initial conversations about what you want the LFF line-up to look like? I mean, it sounds kind of crazy to say because October is so far into the year, but we really do kind of start in January, in terms of the beginning of the film festival year. Sundance in January – that's when we start viewing films. There's quite a lot of films that we've got in the festival this year that we watched way back in January. Things heat up in the springtime, really from May to July. It's a really busy period where we're just viewing, viewing, viewing, viewing. Then, somehow that gets us to October! It's really crazy how quickly this job makes the year pass. Does it involve you going to a lot of other film festivals in person as well then? We're really lucky with Sundance, we do it all virtually just because it would obviously be quite expensive. But we all go to Cannes. That's obviously a very crucial festival for us, just like it is for a lot of the film industry. Some of the team go to Berlin as well. We go to a lot of work-in-progress, pitching events and things like that. We're looking at this year's festivals but we're also always looking towards the future as well. Are there any like titles that you feel a personal affiliation with, that you've known about for so and that are having their screenings during LFF this year? We get to see a lot of things that are in the later autumn festivals that come just before us, like Venice and TIFF, throughout the summer. So with a film like The Voice of Hind Rajab, we saw that during the summer and were obviously just floored by it. We were just so moved and so impressed. It's obviously such a tricky line to to walk with the subject of that film. But we were just so stunned by how well it was done and we knew it was going to be very, very special. Seeing how a film like that had such an amazing reaction at Venice, it's so nice to know that then we're going to be able to show that to our audiences as well. It's a film that will be an LFF must-watch for many, especially after its world premiere at Venice last month. But it obviously won't be an easy watch ... It's not an easy watch, but I think it is an important watch. I think beyond that and maybe sometimes people aren't necessarily highlighting this so I'll just use the opportunity to – but it's also incredibly well made and really interestingly made as well. There are so many things going on all at once in that film. It's really special. So many people have rightfully praised the breadth of content and the films that are on offer at this year's festival. Do you feel as though this year is even more of a celebration of diverse storytelling, now more than ever? It's a good question – I think yes. This is my fifth year working on LFF now and I've definitely seen a shift during that time to be more diverse. But I think it's also kind of hard because you can't program films that aren't there, especially when we want things to be as diverse as possible at all times. I think it's a case of being lucky with a lot of the films that are coming out when they're coming out. I think we've got some really amazing stories from British filmmakers this year that are of Black and global majority backgrounds. Also, first filmmakers as well, making really accomplished films. A couple of debuts that we've got are More Life by Bradley Banton and High Wire by Calif Chong. I think they're very authentic at representing their communities. It's nice to see diversity, but it's also really nice to see diversity specifically within British filmmaking. They're really exciting, they're going to be huge, they're such talented filmmakers. Having been in the job for a while now, what have kind of the differences have you seen over the course of programming LFF across five years? I don't know if this is necessarily a difference, but it's something that I love so much, is seeing filmmakers during my time on the festival returning. Say, you screen someone's first film and then they come back a couple years later with their second or third film. I love kind of bookmarking filmmakers and thinking like, 'Okay, I've got to keep track of them and I've got to see what they're going to be doing'. I mean, filmmakers like Yemi Bamiro, who we're having the world premiere of his film, Black is Beautiful: The Kwame Brathwaite Story, which is such an incredible documentary. During my time at the festival, this is the second film of his that we've had, but it's the third film of his we've had in total. I think all of his documentaries are amazing, but they're just getting bigger in scope and he's just telling more unique stories. It's just so exciting – just over five years to see how much like his filmmaking is expanding and continuing to go from strength to strength. Do you ever feel any pressure in 'getting it right' each year, having that great mix of documentaries, short films as well as big, glitzy Hollywood name attached films as well? I think with the glitzy Hollywood stuff, we're so lucky in terms of the fact it's such a machine, [cinema] is always churning out. But it's actually even within that and then even within the program in general, it's like, how are we getting the right balance and the right mix of things? We're always thinking about female directors, non-binary, trans directors, Black and global majority directors. We don't have official quotas, to be hitting certain marks. But we still have that pressure on ourselves as a team. I think actually working as part of a programming team is really helpful because we don't really have specific focus areas, but someone might be like 'Oh, maybe we had more films from this area of the world last year'. And then that can push us to try and find more or at least the same amount of them every year. Then I think it just it takes a lot of research and a lot of detective work. We can't program a film that doesn't exist, but we can find a film that maybe hasn't been in that many film festivals, just needs a bit of love, and we think London audiences would really react to. It's our duty as well to just make sure the festival represents London as best it can. Obviously, we're such a diverse city in so many different ways, with so many different types of people. We just want to make sure there's something for everyone. Because there aren't any official quotas attached to LFF, is there like a sense of personal responsibility on the shoulders of all the programmers to make sure that you are platforming different intersectionalities of identity as well? I think so, yeah. Maybe sometimes we are harder on ourselves than we should be. That we feel like just because maybe we haven't got this one film, doesn't mean that the rest of the festival isn't a success. Sometimes, when you're so deep in it as well, it can be hard to see the bigger picture. I think the fact that we take it so seriously does show that we do really care about these films. When the programme is this big, sprawling thing, it feels like we could have just picked up these films at random and put them in. But like, when we're programming, it's really like ... even something from the thematic strands that we have, we spend so much time, agonising. Like, 'Oh, is this the right strand for this film?' and 'Is this a film that we should play in the morning or evening? What screen should it go in?'. Things like that, it's very fiddly. I think we do take personal responsibility. For me as well, because I work on BFI Flare, which is our queer film festival that happens in the spring, I'm always thinking as well about what queer work we're screening in LFF. I think it's really nice for those festivals to speak to each other, for it not to just be like, 'Oh, all of the queer work is just put in Flare'. There needs to be a crossover and continuing narrative that both these festivals are happening and they're both run by the same people. Is there a hidden gem title that you're hoping that people will be talking about this year, one that you maybe haven't seen loads of people talking about as much, but that you're hoping that people will take the time out and see? I don't know if it's necessarily a hidden gem, because I think it was talked about a lot at the beginning of the year when it premiered, but it definitely deserves some love is BLKNWS: Terms & Conditions by Kahlil Joseph. People might be familiar with him, he's a very prolific music video director, he directed a lot of Kendrick Lamar's early videos. It's a really hard film to describe because it's so many things. It's a sprawling, essayistic documentary about the Black diaspora told through memes, videos and serious academic works. It's also a very personal documentary about his family, and then it's also a kind of Afro-futurist piece, exploring the potentials of where Black people and especially Black art could go in the future. It's really special. I'm really jealous I haven't seen it on the big screen yet. To get to see that film in the cinema is going to be such a treat and such an experience, it looks really gorgeous. A lot of the strands of LFF are seeking to reflect the world. With the outside world seeming more divisive than ever, what do you think about the power of cinema in being able to bring people together? I don't know if I necessarily believe in the power of just watching a film. I think the power of having something like LFF is that it's taking over not the whole city, but a big chunk of the city and bringing in different people. What's really nice sometimes is I've had, for example, a film that's by an African filmmaker and people come up to me afterwards, and they'll be like, 'Oh, I didn't even know there was a film festival on, I just saw that there was a film by an African filmmaker and I wanted to see it.' And I can be like, 'Well, did you know about all of these as well?'. People go crazy over LFF, I can't believe sometimes that people will be telling me about the spreadsheets and the timetable. It really does feel like it's a fully engrossing experience for 12 days. There's so much to do as well. If you just come to BFI Southbank, there's club nights, talks, lots of stuff. I don't know if LFF is necessarily going to – or any cinema because the world is just in such a crazy place at the moment – but I think it's definitely somewhere where everyone can find something that's for them. If they're also looking to be a bit more 'out there' and use cinema as a tool for change and education, I think there are definitely films in the programme that do that. I mentioned The Voice of Hind Rajab, but there's also an amazing film called Orwell: 2+2=5 by Raoul Peck, who's just such an amazing filmmaker. He's looking initially at George Orwell, his texts and ideas. But then from that, he's essentially going 'By the way, everything that he predicted in this book is happening now' and then, applying that to what's happening in the world. Again, it's an intense film and it doesn't necessarily have answers. But you come out that film and you want to like mobilise and do something, it makes you think about the world differently. So I think maybe if we sat down a cross-section of people at the moment, made them watch that film, maybe some kind of good could come out of that, hopefully. What are some other titles or filmmakers that you're most excited for this year as well? Because we're running around everywhere, we don't get to see a whole load of stuff during the festival. But I always try and make sure I get to see at least a couple of films. I'm hoping I'm going to see more than the two films I have tickets for. But I actually think the two films are quite good examples of the breadth of the programme. I've got tickets to see Hamnet, Chloé Zhao is such an interesting filmmaker, the way that she's managed to do a bit of everything is just crazy. We have a lot of archive titles in the festival, which are usually restorations of older films that will always be on the most gorgeous 4k restoration. So I've also got tickets to a film from Guinea Bissau called Mortu Nega. It's about a couple who essentially are just trying to make their like relationship survive and also just survive themselves under Civil War. The photos I've seen from it are just absolutely stunning, so I'm just ready to go and see that on a big screen. There's so many titles this year that are exploring the Black diaspora and global majority stories as well. How does it feel to be part of programming that really is platforming such diverse storytelling that so many people are asking for in film? I think outside of what the main remit of my job is, just as a programmer myself, showing as many films by the Black diaspora – especially films by Black female filmmakers – that really is what I consider to be my job and my responsibility to do. It's obviously not just my responsibility and there's so many amazing other people screening these films and promoting these films. But to me, it's so important. I don't want to just share films that are from my lived identity. I think films from Black British filmmakers to just show specifically where we're at at the moment as a society. Having like More Life and Black Is Beautiful is really exciting. But then at the same time, I'm so excited by the films that are coming over from Sub-Saharan Africa and North Africa at the moment. The breadth of the filmmaking that's happening in Sub-Saharan Africa at the moment is incredible. We've got a comedy, cop thriller film. We've got a first time feature from a female filmmaker that's all about land rights and NGOs. It's very funny, but also very political. I think it's a really exciting time. I love to see global Black cinema as well. I think it's always to remember that we are everywhere. I think these films do a really nice job of sort of reminding us of that. And why do you think it is so important for LFF to platform so many multifaceted stories from the Black diaspora? London is such a diverse city and I think especially historically, there's such a strong Black community from across the world in London. I think we just want to see ourselves represented. And also, you think about Black British filmmakers, we've got this incredible legacy. We've got someone like Steve McQueen, who is just like one of the best in the game. Obviously, we had Blitz open LFF last year and we've shown a lot of his films over the years. We just want to keep supporting this legacy really and reminding people that while Black talent is global, so often people just think of African American filmmakers. It's like, 'No, we're doing the work here as well.'. Finally, in your own words, why are representation and diversity within film so important? I think it's everything, really. I just think if we were coming to cinema and we were seeing the same homogenous stories over and over again ... I mean, there's an argument that we are, especially now we're sort of living in the era of the remake and the reboot. But then, actually, I think because often, like cinema, especially mainstream cinema, can feel so homogenous, that's when it's so exciting to see different stories being told. Like, look at the reaction to Sinners. To have an original Black film by a filmmaker who's really interested in big budget filmmaking was just so exciting. Especially my work with Flare makes me realise this, you think that every story has been told or can be told. You think of a coming-of-age story, 'Oh, I've seen that a million times.' But then you'll see a film like DJ Ahmet that we've got in the festival, which is set in a rural Macedonian village and it's about a boy that finds a way to break free from tradition through DJing. You'll see a film like She's the He, which is by a mainly trans and non-binary cast and crew. It's a gender-swap comedy that's sort of riffing on early 2000s teen films. There's always a new way to tell a story that you think is familiar and there's always stories that haven't been told yet. BFI London Film Festival 2025 runs until 19th October. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Dreaming Whilst Black's Adjani Salmon: "If season 1 was about the glass ceiling, season 2 is about the glass cliff"
Dreaming Whilst Black's Adjani Salmon sits down with Pass the Mic to chat about the "smoother ride" of season 2 and what it's saying about the wider TV industry.
Ever since the first season premiered back in 2023, fans of Dreaming Whilst Black have been patiently waiting for the second outing – and at long last, it's now here. The new season is as stellar as ever, crafting the show's infectious humour to a whole new level that will leave viewers grinning within the first 10 minutes of the premiere episode. It's a comeback that will not only come as a sigh of relief to fans but also, more understandably, to its creator and star Adjani Salmon. When we chat about the new season of Dreaming Whilst Black, Salmon is candid about the "massive pressure" that comes with following up a hit first season. But it's pressure that he's somewhat accustomed to now, talking about the fact that even after the original pilot, there was international fanfare, as well as RTS and BAFTA Award nominations. "Nobody ever knew us before. We just did what we wanted and people loved it. So, this season, we kind of came on and just blocked out the noise and were just like, 'Well, what do we want?' Because we're all audience members as well. So, it was very much, 'What do we find interesting?' and let's just talk about that," Salmon says. "It was a much smoother ride this time, I felt like the first time we had no idea what we were doing and just kind of making it up, whereas this time we felt a bit more confident, a bit more composed. We knew the characters now, so it was just like, 'Oh, what do we want them to do?' So it was just a more fun experience." Salmon jokes that Dreaming Whilst Black is a documentary and this season in particular will hit many nails on the head for anyone who is familiar with the TV industry. Where season 1 followed Salmon's Kwabena as he dreamt of making films while working a recruitment job, this new season sees Kwabena stepping further into the TV industry on the road to getting some more credits under his belt. But Kwabena doesn't want to just work on anything, he wants to work on a show that will make a difference and empower marginalised voices in the process. In comes Sin and Subterfuge, a period drama that is helmed by a Black producer, Bridgette Julienne (Christine Adams) – but quickly, we see how a promising production can turn problematic. Salmon describes Sin and Subterfuge as a "colour blind period drama" and in exploring that production within the series, we see "the inner workings of what it actually looks like behind the curtain of diversity. We look at how people with good intentions go into a situation and not get the outcome that they desire or that they were told everyone is trying to do. So, it's really just unpacking how bad things happen despite good intentions," he explains. Not naming names about any source of inspiration for Sin and Subterfuge, Salmon playfully offers up the reminder that comes at the start of each episode of Dreaming Whilst Black that "all characters and events are based on fictional characters, and not based on any real event or likeness". Exploring a topic like colour-blind casting is no small feat for a comedy but it's something that, once again, Dreaming Whilst Black pulls off with incredible ease. Drawing attention to these conversations whilst also having laugh-out-loud moments aplenty is just part of the DNA of this series, with Salmon saying that his main intention is for people to "just enjoy the show". In tackling these big themes, Salmon says that it was important to approach it by showing the stages of power, the stages of gatekeeping, intention versus impact and also people's hidden agendas. But within that, it was also key for Salmon to show grace to everybody involved, explaining: "I don't necessarily think people go out and be like, 'I want to fail this Black man' [or,] 'This Black woman will never succeed.' "I don't think people go in with that because when they do that, they just don't hire us. But it's when they do hire us, how that still happens. So we try to give everybody grace but just show this is how it is." A series like Dreaming Whilst Black is of course nothing without its writers but even in the behind-the-scenes process of sitting down to think about Dreaming Whilst Black season 2, Salmon tells me that everything came together at a "weird stage". When talking about the kind of mood and tone that he wanted to strike in this second season, Salmon explains: "Well, we went into the [writers'] room at this weird stage where Black Lives Matter happened, all these Black shows are commissioned. And then, all these Black shows didn't get recommissioned and all these other Black ideas didn't get commissioned. "I'm kind of looking at the landscape thinking, 'It's a bit bleak that we're going back to square one'. So I was like, 'No, let's talk about it, let's talk about how great the times are.' So we wanted to just touch on that post-BLM world, where apparently the place is diverse and beaming with opportunity." That kind of industry responsibility is one that Kwabena faces in season 2, with Salmon saying that he's carrying the weight of thinking that if he succeeds, it'll be good for all of us. But also, if he fails, then feeling as though he's failed his entire community. "A more academic version of that is – season 1 is about the glass ceiling and season 2 is about the glass cliff, which we had to research just to even get it over the line. The glass cliff, in short, is structural inequities and equalities disguised as personal failure. So, the idea that we are given a shot but the shot's not really certified. "But then when you fail, it's perceived as personal failure when actually, it's the institution that never really gave you a shot in the first place. This was first developed through the feminist movement, with women getting promoted in precarious situations and through later research, as Black women do, they found out that it affects Black people as well." Thinking about how to dramatise these things on screen made mapping out season 2 quite complex, Salmon says, with the question of how to make these invisible notions visible for a wider audience always at the forefront of discussions. The writers' room for Dreaming Whilst Black is clearly a joyous memory for Salmon, who wastes no time in celebrating everyone involved and the impassioned conversations that would come from the ideation process alone. One of the things to arise, especially from the female writers involved, was the return of Vanessa (Babirye Bukilwa). "His dream is Jamaica Road, but his dream is also Vanessa," Salmon offers. When we meet Kwabena again in season 2, he's trying to get over Vanessa but when he learns that she's back in London and not in New York anymore, it lights a fuse within him. "Humanising the mandem" is what is important to Salmon and it's through the post-break-up haze that we see Kwabena navigate that we get another insight into his character. Speaking about what it meant to encapsulate that, Salmon says: "We're not expressive. We're not necessarily taught to be. To be honest, we're not necessarily celebrated when we are, which I completely understand and completely understand why there's no space to hold our feelings because we've been holding it back for so long." Salmon wanted to show that Black men do have feelings and they're valid, knowing that it was important to show that realness but also, being held accountable by the Black women that these feelings also impact. "Because yes, we deserve to express ourselves and yes, there's reasons why we don't express ourselves. But when we don't, someone's impacted by that. So, it was just trying to peel back the layers for the mandem so we can have a conversation." In a similar fashion, we also see emotions run high between Kwabena and Amy (Dani Moseley) as Amy navigates the ideas of duty and responsibility with having wider career dreams. The privilege that Amy calls Kwabena out for is one that is similar to Salmon's own experiences of being able to live at his aunt's house and make a web series whilst his friends "had to keep working to pay these bills". It felt apt to explore that through the lens of a Black woman, Salmon says, with Black Tax being just one of the meaty concepts that they wanted to explore in season 2 to show the realities of being Black and, also, to make viewers feel seen. Salmon hilariously offers up an anecdote of his mother putting down a 40-inch TV on a shopping list for him after the release of season 1, whereas his co-writer Ali Hughes was never asked of anything from his family. "Even when we make it, we don't progress as fast as our white friends because we have family obligations," Salmon explains about Black Tax. "Whereas, in my case it's my mother wanting a new TV, a lot of times for some of my other friends, it's like, 'Can you help out your little brother with football club or extra classes, school trips?' All of our income is not ours, we have a family that we have to help take care of because they themselves have sacrificed for us." As a series writer, Salmon says it's important for him to always think about how he covers his own blind spots. "I'm a Black man who was raised in Jamaica, I don't know what it's like to be a Black woman. To be fair, I have a vague idea of what it's like to be siblings, but I'm an only child." It's an admission that many TV writers could definitely take inspiration from, but in terms of thinking about the wider TV landscape – as this season of Dreaming Whilst Black also gets us to reflect on – what are Salmon's own thoughts about where we stand in regards to diversity, equity and inclusion? "I've said it, a million people have said it, everybody's been saying it but I think fundamentally, we need to move away from intention versus impact. If I'm apologising to you, am I apologising because I want to relieve myself of guilt, or am I apologising because an apology will help you heal? "I think the minute we start looking at these conversations from a position of impact, not 'What do I want to do?' but 'What do I want this person to do and feel by whatever action [I do]?'" View oEmbed on the source website I finish off by recapping our previous conversation on the release of season 1, where Salmon professed to feeling an exciting shift being a Black producer in a time when it looked as though many Black-led shows were landing on our screens. Is it still the same feeling, I ask? "To be Black is to be optimistic because if not, we might as well just pack up. But I will say it is more tricky. What I will say is that, fortunately, because of technology and access and streaming platforms, there are more opportunities for us," Salmon says. "From the strikes that happened in America, there's less TV being made. So, it's tough for everybody. I even hear white men complain. So, it is generally a tricky time. But I just think in tricky times, people tend to make riskier decisions. So hopefully, that will mean opportunities for us." Salmon beams about the success of shows like Supacell, Black Ops and Boarders, which just show the breadth of content on offer and are only the precipice of what can come if decision makers continue to see the value in platforming Black talent. As for the future of Dreaming Whilst Black, Salmon jokes that if it were to get cancelled after season two, "the message of the show is crazy". With the way that things end for Kwabena, there's no doubt that we need more episodes and Salmon says that, like the show's fans, he wants to see Kwabena finally get to make Jamaica Road. Could it involve a trip to Jamaica? Whilst Salmon doesn't have the answers for that question, he assures me that there's definitely more story to tell and would love the opportunity to do that. "Kwabena's fought to be in the industry, been chewed up and spat out by it. So, at this point he has nothing to lose. He might as well go for it." Dreaming Whilst Black seasons 1 and 2 are available to stream on BBC iPlayer now. Check out more of our Comedy coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Brides director Nadia Fall: "This film is much more tender than people will assume"
Artistic director of the Young Vic theatre, Nadia Fall, makes her feature film debut with Brides and chats to Pass the Mic about empathy and the beauty of female friendship.
At a runtime of just over an hour and a half, Brides is the kind of film that may seem small and lighthearted but packs such a punch, it will leave you brimming with emotion. The movie serves as Nadia Fall's feature film debut, following teenage best friends Doe (Ebada Hassan) and Muna (Safiyya Ingar) as they run away from their lives in the UK in search of more in Syria. Like most viewers, you'll get swept up in the actual journey of it all, just keen for Doe and Muna to reach their intended destination after multiple complications and hurdles. But actually, it's not a girls trip that the teenagers are going on – they're heading to Syria under the spell of social media indoctrination, willing to risk it all for a life they've been led to believe holds purpose and meaning. For anyone familiar with the news cycle, the story of teenage girls running away in secret to Syria will be a recognisable one. Most notably, the UK press became hyper-focused on the reporting of Shamima Begum, who travelled to Syria in 2015 aged 15 to join Islamic State (IS). Fall recognises that, on the face of it, Brides digs into a controversial topic but the film is simply prompting its viewers to put themselves into the shoes of others. Speaking about the way in which Begum's case was handled at the time, Falls says that Begum (and others who made similar journeys) are "vilified and painted in such a particular light, without anybody trying to see it from their point of view, as young people and as legal children at the time". While the film never explicitly mentions IS, the parallels are obviously clear. Rather than keeping these narratives as faceless, rid of personal stories and just simple headlines, Fall (along with writer Suhayla El-Bushra) craft such an emotional feast of a tale that it's hard not to sit up and take notice. "First and foremost, for me, it's a film about female friendship, those really deep loves you have for your best friend growing up – and also about the teenage brain," Fall tells me. Now serving as the new Artistic Director of London's Young Vic theatre, Fall says it's her and El-Bushra's theatre backgrounds – as well as Fall's work in pupil referral units and secondary schools – that has made her especially fascinated by the teenage brain. They're hardwired to take risky decisions, she explains, smiling at her own memories of the time and remarking that it's a wonder anyone survives those years. "Usually we do because there are people around us that love us, hold us and society's on our side. Sometimes, when you don't feel like you belong or are made to feel like an outsider, you don't have that security. Young people are wonderful but are open to influence, open to taking risk, open to social media. So we did look at the push and the pull. We did look at social media. We looked at bullying, we looked at home life, we looked at indoctrination." Fall says that El-Bushra did copious amounts of research around the real-life cases and quickly learnt that there wasn't a 'one size fits all' feeling to any of them, with Fall underlining that "there isn't one reason someone's radicalised". In the film, that's aptly demonstrated by the fact that both Doe and Muna's motivations to leave England are very different. Where Doe is going for love and a deep-rooted crush, Muna is leaning towards the escapism aspect of it all and hoping to not feel like such an outsider anymore. "The brilliant Adolescence series got all these plaudits for looking at inceldom and misogyny amongst teenage boys so beautifully, so tenderly. We accepted that, they didn't show us who was talking to them. They didn't demonstrate Andrew Tate-adjacent people online but we got it. "So, similarly for this, we've got so much in the news about what happened in Syria. We all have the images from back then, we have podcasts and documentaries. Ours wasn't about that. Ours is about looking at it from a young person's point of view and flipping that script," Fall says. With a lot of current conversation around radicalisation and extremism in various forms, the fact that this film is so pertinent at the time of its release does break Fall's heart, she admits. "Over 10 years after the story is set, we're living in a very divided society. Those in power are really relishing pitting us against each other, across different value systems or religions, ethnicities or sexualities. I think it's all fake news. I think we've got far more in common as human beings than we have differences, and the arts really remind us of that. "It's really, really important for our health. I know I sound like a big hippie when I say this – go to the cinema, sit in communion, go to the theatre, sit together with other strangers who might be different to you and process, look and put yourself in someone else's shoes. I mean, extremism happens on all sides from different religions, different political affiliations." Fall states that she doesn't think Brides is a film about extremism, saying: "I think it's about loneliness and trying to belong... if people can make us feel wanted or seen, any group, any young person would follow that. That's why we need to provide alternatives. The online voice is very powerful and the algorithms are very powerful telling us what we need to hear to motivate us. We've got to fortify against it. We've got to speak to each other in real life and have conversations. We don't need to agree." It'll probably be easy for plenty of prospective Brides viewers to go into it thinking it's one thing but Fall says that's all part of it, encouraging people to watch the film and make their own conclusions. "I just think this film is much more tender than people will assume," she says, highlighting the fact that Brides certainly doesn't have all the answers. The social media of it all was an important part of the story that needed highlighting, with the idea of capturing the internet on screen being something that's often quite cringy to see in movies, Fall says. One of the best sequences of Brides is the montage of Muna and Doe cradling their phones, swept up in social media posts and set to the backdrop of MIA's Bad Girls. Fall tells me that they used real-life footage and social media posts, the latter of which came as a surprise in terms of how many of the girls who were being indoctrinated were also talking about the "most mundane and girly things like kittens and Haribo sweets", Fall reveals. View oEmbed on the source website In relation to the real-life girls who made that dangerous journey from Turkey to the Syrian border, Fall doesn't shy away from the fact that both she and El-Bushra "were really nervous about even tackling such a story". "We just thought, 'Are we going to do it justice? Are we going to add to more stereotypes about the Muslim diaspora and community?' That's not needed. But I think we just had to be brave and do it," she says. Over the course of the film, we mainly observe the dynamics between Muna and Doe, which veer from sisterly to maternal and is a relationship that comes under a lot of stress throughout the 90 minutes. While it would've been easy to end the film on a specific and harrowing note, the film takes us back to the very first day that Doe and Muna meet in art class. It's a surprising tone to finish Brides on for two reasons. Not only do you spend the duration of the film thinking that perhaps the pair have known each other for most of their lives, but the flashback also comes after the dawning and sobering realisation of Doe and Muna's fate as they reach Syria. Fall says that there were "one or two people that tried to tell us to move that ending to the beginning and do it in a very chronological way", but simply put: "We didn't want that." For both Fall and El-Bushra, they wanted to end the film with some hope and redemption rather than the "pain porn" of some art that can be "too much to swallow and insurmountable". The levity of the ending directly correlates to the lightness that comes with being a teenager, with Fall discussing how friendship is a deep and life-changing love. We may lose friends over the course of our lives but they're always etched in our memories, Fall says. That unforgettable female bond is one that was also reinforced by working on a big team of women, Fall explains. "Actually, most of our HODs [heads of departments] were women, which is extremely rare in film," Fall says, describing how with that came a "shorthand and a sisterhood". "That's not us just being woke – although it's great to be woke – it's us going, 'This isn't just morally right, it makes for a richer film because we've all been teenage girls'. We just knew and trusted each other. When time and money are short, you just have to hit the ground and trust each other. So, it really helped that people behind the camera were really diverse, global majority and women." As well as eliciting sympathy for these two teenage girls, we're struck in one of the final images of the film by Doe's neighbourhood being etched with graffiti that reads: "Behead all Muslims." The Islamophobia that the girls have to face in the film (which is set in 2014) is still rife, with an increase in far-right rhetoric leaving many people within the global majority feeling othered and terrified to leave their homes. So how does it feel to release a film like Brides at a point in society where these topics feel more prevalent than ever? "When you're from this diaspora, it's cyclical. I was a young person when 9/11 happened and that changed how my community was seen from then onwards. It's a lived experience for Suhayla and I. The world turns and decades on, we're at the same point. It's not accidental. "There is a very blatant and unapologetic stoking of the hornets' nest by certain people that have the mic at the moment; wannabe politicians, social media moguls, people with a lot of power who very deliberately put a lot at the foot of Islam and the religion." Fall continues: "We're not a monolith – we're different races, we don't speak one language, we're all different. Some of us have tattoos and some of us wear hijabs. This is just one small film that sheds light on it, but it's not going away and we can see it. We had a US president say things about a London mayor. You don't need to be a lefty artist like me to think that's just not on. But if people in great seats of power say these things, then it trickles down to the classroom. It trickles down to the office, it trickles down to the bus stop and we must fortify against hate speech." Fall adds: "It's dangerous. It's not just dangerous for the Muslim community, it's dangerous for any community because you might be next – and that's how fascism works exactly." With a film like Brides already under her feature film director's belt, it's already one that says so much and warrants the audience to sit with their own thoughts about a subject matter and narrative we haven't ever been prompted to think of in the mainstream. Having worked with the likes of Michaela Coel and Aaron Pierre in some of their early career roles, Fall's hopes for the future revolve around platforming the "breadth and richness of stories, storytelling and people". She says: "If I started going, 'Look, I'm going to make a play or a film about climate change or about Islamophobia', that would be like forcing audiences to take their cod liver oil and medicine. That's not what I'm here to do. I'm here to tell a story in a nuanced and, I hope, tender or rigorous way. Then, we'll draw our own conclusions." For now, she's got a new season of Young Vic programming to keep her incredibly busy, kicking off with Entertaining Mr Sloane. It's "very bonkers, very Marmite", she beams. If her feature film debut is anything to go by, it'll be stellar. And if the industry actually stands up and pays attention to Brides, we'll hopefully see more of Fall's on-screen directing prowess sooner rather than later. Brides is in UK & Irish cinemas now. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Angela Griffin on directing Blue Lights season 3, Waterloo Road and the need for better behind-the-scenes representation
The actress, director and presenter sits down with Pass the Mic to talk directing episodes in the new seasons of Waterloo Road and Blue Lights, as well as her hopes for more inclusivity in the TV industry.
*Warning: This article contains spoilers for Blue Lights season 3.* Known by many for her roles in Coronation Street, Waterloo Road, Casualty and Lewis, Angela Griffin is no stranger to the screen. In fact, as Griffin tells me, she's so comfortable in the world of acting that "there's very little that that unnerves me about walking on to set as an actor". But now, Griffin is taking on one of her most nerve-wracking experiences yet, directing the final season 3 episodes of hit BBC One drama Blue Lights. The BAFTA award-winning series has been a veritable hit for the broadcaster since it landed on our screens back in 2023, with its future until season 4 already having been promised. The grit, twists, focus on a post-conflict Northern Ireland and heartwarming batch of central characters not only won over viewers across the UK, but also was a show that Griffin personally loved before ever considering taking on a role in it. When we speak, Griffin has just returned from Belfast at the beginning of September, feeling as though she's only just come off of the whirlwind rollercoaster of season 3. "I'm still on that treadmill," she admits, talking excitedly about nailing down VFX shots and seeing final cuts of her episodes. In Belfast for a total of seven months, Griffin's latest directed episode of Waterloo Road has already been released and we joke about how the two shows that she's worked on so far apart from each other, have ended up coming out within a week or so of one another. Oh, the wonders of TV and iPlayer. Having already directed episodes of Waterloo Road previously – a show she was an integral part of on-screen also – Griffin still describes herself as a "proper baby" when it comes to the world of directing. "I've acted for over 30 years but I am so new to the [directing] industry. So there's nobody anywhere offering me anything. I've got to go through the process. I suppose there's a slight thing of, 'Does she know what she's doing?'," she tells me. Talking about the familiarity and comfortability of directing on Waterloo Road, Griffin says that when it came to being behind the cameras, it initially filled her with some worry. She told the show that she'd only return if they let her direct it, but when they accepted that, a range of emotions hit the actress. "I was really, really worried about what I had taken on and if I'd bitten off more than I could chew. But then, when the process started, it felt like the most natural thing I've ever done," she says. "It's just my world. There's a familiarity about everything and so and so I kind of took to it like a duck to water." Knowing all the crew meant that the switch to being in the director's chair on Waterloo Road was one that made Griffin feel "very safe", with the actress describing the inclusive environment that exists on the long-running series. "Waterloo Road is a really safe place to work, in terms of there are a lot of trainees there. There's a real thing about bringing people into the industry who wouldn't normally get that opportunity, whether it be class, gender, creed, whatever it may be. It's a very, very safe environment. You are allowed to make mistakes. It's not make a mistake and you're out. I felt really supported." When it came to directing Blue Lights, the opportunity was much like any job application process for Griffin, despite her name within the British TV world. "There were no favours. There was no getting in round the back route of 'Oh, I know this person, or I know this person' – I didn't know anybody at all and I'd never worked in Belfast," she says. Walking onto the Blue Lights set for the first day was a daunting one for Griffin, who says that when she did so, she was left thinking: "Oh my God, what have I done? What if everyone was directing it for me when I was on Waterloo Road? Maybe I don't know what I'm doing." But it turned out that those initial nerves were just that and the same comfort she found behind the scenes on Waterloo Road were matched up in Belfast while filming Blue Lights. Being so established as an actress and then a relative newbie as a director must be quite the tonal shift for Griffin, but she says that she's "quite enjoyed the challenge of it", beaming at the fact that her acting has directly correlated to how she serves as a director. This season of Blue Lights has already been teed up to be the "best so far", with the regular gang of Grace (Siân Brooke), Annie (Katherine Devlin) and Tommy (Nathan Braniff) all reprising their roles. Two years into their jobs in the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), this third season digs into new dangers and threats that present themselves as a new gang rule Belfast. Not only is it the subject matter and Northern Ireland focus of Blue Lights that has struck such a chord with viewers, it's also its focus on character-driven story. For Griffin, a major part of directing episodes 4-6 was just that. "My favourite bit is working with the actors I love, talking about character, talking about their story, finding the points, those story beats, those character moments, playing it for real, creating an environment on set that is really actor friendly as much as I possibly can. "That's absolutely informed by the years that I've been on set where maybe that hasn't happened or maybe that has happened. I've picked up skills and tips from directors who I thought were amazing and brilliant and equally, I've picked up what not to do from the directors who've been appalling." Speaking about this new season of Blue Lights, Griffin describes it as a "really interesting" one. "I was a fan, and I know that obviously I've directed these ones so I'm slightly biased, but I do think it's a series that's just got better and better and better in terms of – because now we've got the history of the show as well. You've got various characters that come back and there's a few lovely little surprises going." She continues: "I'm so invested in those people. Now there's this is shorthand. You don't need to kind of explain loads of stuff. I just basically think it's just got better. I feel so lucky that I have got to play a part in it." Her first directed episode of the series, episode 4, is one that contains huge evolution moments for every single one the characters, she describes. "They go through such huge changes and the performances are just incredible." Beaming about episode 5 and 6 also, Griffin smiles and says that she does think "it's a really strong series", even if most of the time as a director, it feels like putting pieces of a complicated puzzle together. The style of Blue Lights is pretty fixed, but that didn't stop Griffin trying to weave in her own tone to her block of episodes. For one thing, she hasn't included any nighttime scenes and was intentional about Brooke's Grace starting the fourth episode by opening up the blinds. There is a palpable emotional, tonal and aesthetic darkness to the first batch of episodes but that simple blind-opening scene was to show "the light comes in and signify we're bringing the light into it," Griffin says. When it comes to the kinds of shots she appreciates as a director, it's one that lean into the natural, loving using handheld cameras and also, focusing on relationships. That's also an element of the series that Griffin hopes to see going forward in Blue Lights. While she remains tight-lipped about the prospect of working on the series for season 4, she says that as much as she loves the crime stories and cases, she wants to stay within the cast, namely Stevie (Martin McCann), Annie, Shane (Frank Blake) and Tommy. The series ends on quite a two-pronged approach, delivering a cliffhanger that builds up a meaty fourth season and also with a heartwarming moment that'll leave you smiling and tapping your feet along to Westlife's World of Our Own. But it turns out that wasn't actually how the series was going to end, Griffin shares. "That's not initially how it was written, the episode did not end like that. As an actor, I would never have known this, but that is something that as we went into the edit process. As we went into seeing the series as a whole, knowing where the series is going to go and sitting down with the execs, it's a very collaborative environment in terms of Blue Lights – in terms of most TV, actually – and that decision was made quite late in the day," she says. "It's all to do with, 'Is it how I would have ended it?'. And it does, it gives you that feeling at the end of there is a sort of completion to it, but sometimes it's also quite nice to leave it on a big old hook. Because we know there's going to be another series four." It turns out that the original ending was the pre-flashback scene, where it's revealed who's behind the new order of things in Belfast. Both Tina McIntyre (Abigail McGibbon) and Dana Morgan (Cathy Tyson) meet up in front of the town hall, signalling a new order and confirming that it very much are these women that are in charge. The symbolism of that fateful final conversation taking place in front of the statue of abolitionist, social reformer and activist Mary Ann McCracken isn't a coincidence. "It's all about the fact that the women are in charge, the women are the ones who've survived and now they're going to – hopefully, who knows what happens in [season] four? – take over," Griffin says. Speaking about the intricate shots, details and symbolism she's tried to weave into her Blue Lights episodes, it's more than clear that Griffin has a deep-rooted passion for directing. She too has an equal enthusiasm for trying to open up the industry to others, underlining the fact that social mobility and inclusivity is key for the TV industry to continue to thrive. With a career that does span decades, has Griffin felt as though the industry has improved in regards to the people we see both in front of and behind the cameras? "It's definitely changed since I started. When I was 16, going into Coronation Street as the only Black character that was in it. I think there had been a Black character before, but she'd never become a regular. I was the first regular Black character on that show. I don't think I realised the gravity of that at the time, but I certainly do understand it now. "So, in terms of what the industry looks like now in comparison to then? Massive changes. But it's not enough. Also what's happened is it's a bit of a bell jar that seems to have happened. When the streamers first came, it was like there was more work than there was people. It was like you couldn't even get a production manager, people were having to be trained up to come into the industry. There were so many opportunities." Griffin continues: "There were a lot of schemes and workshops about bringing people into the industry. It was brilliant and wonderful. It's now changed again because that work has absolutely dried up. It's 52 per cent, I think, of the workforce that are out of work at the moment in terms of crew and the statistics for diversity in class, colour, gender has dropped. It's like, 'last one in, first one out' again. It's really, really frustrating because it felt like there really was some ground being made." There has to be something done about it, Griffin tells me plainly, because it's key to see the make-up of our population represented on TV. "You cannot just have the same voices and the same faces of safety, or what's perceived as being safe, leading the industry," she says. While there may be some strides in terms of who we see in front of the camera, Griffin says that the state of representation behind-the-scenes and in crews is just not in a place she'd hope for. It's all about creating opportunities for those that may not always have them, also opening up an environment that is a ground for learning and making mistakes – but that would cost the industry money, something that a lot of productions are already struggling with. "I think it always just comes down to money and people at the moment want to be safe. They want a guaranteed person who's going to put bums on seats and someone behind the camera who's guaranteed and doesn't need help, doesn't need training or anything like that," Griffin says, explaining that from her experience, Waterloo Road is the perfect kind of breeding ground for new and rising talent. In terms of the future and what Griffin would hope for her industry, she says: "Let's get different colour, creed – just, let's get as many different kinds of people in as possible and open up this world, this industry, that does not require you to be from a certain class and to have a certain education. We're making art. We're making TV. It was for the working classes and now it's all those people that are being pushed out." Blue Lights season 3 will arrive on BBC iPlayer and BBC One on Monday 29th September. seasons 1-2 are available to stream in full on BBC iPlayer. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to see what's on tonight. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Is UK TV still committed to diversity? The BBC says yes – and has the numbers to prove it
BBC's head of creative diversity, Jessica Schibli, sits down with Pass the Mic to chat about the broadcaster's promises and her unwavering commitment to lasting change within the industry.
A £140 million content budget for diverse TV and radio content, a 25 per cent diversity target for all BBC productions and a £2 million+ fund to nurture and develop careers of underrepresented production talent in mid to senior level roles. While, to some TV viewers, it may seem as though diversity targets and post-2020 commitments have maybe been forgotten within the industry, the BBC has said that it remains as committed as ever to the topic of diversity and inclusion. For the BBC's head of creative diversity, Jessica Schibli, it's more than just hitting targets – it's also about the important question of: "How are we driving real transformation in the industry, leading that change?" Feeling privileged to be in the role, Schibli tells me that the care she has for her work filters through in her day-to-day. "I guess all of the work we're doing is to look at – how do we affect that sort of change in embedding more diversity and inclusion across our content? I think that what's brilliant to see now is that creative diversity is really, really embedded into the commissioning strategy at the BBC and that's reflected in the work that I do, that my team does. "We are really plugged in to the production lifecycle, right from development [and] green light, going into production, post-production, release, when things TX as well." Part of the job also means that Schibli and her team are involved in the training side of things, supporting the career development of individuals as well as setting the strategy for the BBC in terms of diversity ambitions and then supporting teams to deliver against those targets and commitments. "I love what I do, it's a really brilliant space to affect impactful and meaningful change," she beams. While it is meaningful work, it's also part of the BBC's public service, Schibli says. "Obviously, as a public service broadcaster, [our purpose] is to serve to reflect all audiences, but also in our charter is about supporting the creative economy of the UK as well – and that's across all of the UK. "So, how do we make sure we're building those relationships with key screen bodies as well, all across the country?" It's no easy feat having a job that is all about "really looking at how we transform the industry", but part of that is also meeting those who are making some of the very best TV right now. From building relationships with different sized production companies and "looking at the diversity of our suppliers, but also production talent", which means getting to know upcoming directors and writers to build those relationships and identify possible opportunities. Much of the conversation around diversity within the TV industry is rightfully concerned with on-screen representation, but what about those behind the camera? Sitting at the heart of BBC's creative strategy is a commitment not just regarding on-screen representation, but also to behind-the-scenes and off-screen opportunities for those from ethnically diverse, deaf, disabled, neurodivergent and socioeconomically diverse backgrounds. Having told Schibli about the fact that plenty of Pass the Mic interviewees have previously expressed their disappointment in the lack of off-camera representation (in regards to racial diversity), I ask her about how the BBC is going about fostering a more inclusive, diverse environment – one that we'd hope would be innate on many productions anyway. "It's a really good point and it's actually something that, I would say, sits at the very heart of our creative diversity commitment. It's at the heart of our strategy when it comes to representation. You'll see that in our creative diversity commitments," Schibli says. "So we have, last September, announced a commitment that we would spend at least £80 million of our existing TV and radio commissioning budget on content that meets a specific criteria. For a programme to qualify under this criteria, it must meet our criteria around on-air representation and senior production leadership, representation and/or the leadership of the company that we're commissioning from. "I think that's what's really game-changing about it is we're looking at representation in such a holistic way, with the ambition that our content is authentic. That we're serving audiences with the best creative content that is rooted in authenticity and lived experience, and not in entry level roles. It's about production leadership so it's these influential roles that really make an impact on the editorial. "So, for this year, you will have seen that it's £140 million of our content. We surpassed that target. It's £140 million of our existing commissioning budget of content that met that criteria. There's been year-on-year increases. So that number was £105 [million] last year. The year before, it was around £66 million. So, we're really looking to continue to push the dial on that." As well as having "proactive conversations with our producers at point of commission, or even before point of commission in the development space", Schibli is positively brimming about the targets that the BBC has now. "So, the £80 million is a key one – we have another one around diversity across all production roles. That's a 25% target and that's across ethnicity, disability, deaf, disabled, neurodivergent representation and class. In addition to that, we have a £2 million plus fund, which is specifically to support indies, nurture and develop careers of underrepresented production talent in mid to senior level roles. Because it's not just about opening the doors, it's about making sure people can thrive once they're in, and how do they progress? I think the conversation has to be about mid to senior, particularly senior roles," Schibli explains. The other important pillar of focus is one around inclusion culture and the experiences people have. "Last year, we – for the first time in creative diversity – announced a set of inclusive production principles," Schibli says, adding that there's a commissioning specification document that any new commission has to go through at the point of commission. Inclusion goes further than some may realise, with Schibli referencing "hair and makeup equity", "accessibility" due to the BBC's part in the TV Access Project (TAP) and making "the commitment that finance should not be a barrier to access". "So we've just reported we spent £1.3 million on funding access adjustments in addition to production budgets this year. And I think, hopefully, it comes across. I feel so passionately about it because I just feel that it's absolutely key that when people are working either at the BBC, working on shows for the BBC or collaborating with the BBC, we are thriving. "We're doing our best work. We are growing. We're really striving to create because the creative industry is striving to create the best creative content. It has to be in an environment people feel that they thrive [in], that people feel that they belong, where they can do their best work." Recent BBC drama successes include the BAFTA award-winning Mr Loverman, which boasted a "diverse production leadership team across ethnicity, sexuality, gender but also things like hair and makeup" as well as bilingual thriller Reunion, a production that Schibli describes as "brilliant". "I've spoken with the team at length and they really enjoyed making it because of the environment and the culture that was created. But it's for us to say: how do we create that consistently? How do we hold teams to account? How do we set expectations of all this – setting the expectation and then providing support? Is there training we can help with?" The BBC launched the Creative Diversity Commitment back in 2020 in a major move that – like many companies, broadcasters and streamers within the industry – was prompted by the worldwide outrage sparked by the murder of George Floyd in 2020. At the time, the BBC's former Director-General Tony Hall said: “The senseless killing of George Floyd – and what it tells us about the stain of systemic racism – has had a profound impact on all of us. It’s made us question ourselves about what more we can do to help tackle racism – and drive inclusion within our organisation and in society as a whole. “This is our response – it’s going to drive change in what we make and who makes it. It’s a big leap forward – and we’ll have more to announce in the coming weeks.” ⁠Over the past year, the BBC invested more than £1.6 billion in original UK television content, commissioning over 300 production companies across the country. In radio in the past year, the BBC commissioned 245 production companies with 46% of network radio spend in the Nations and English regions. This year, the BBC spent £140 million of its existing commissioning budget on 385 titles in TV and radio that met the BBC’s Creative Diversity criteria. In 2024, that number was £105 million and the year prior, £66 million. Last year, the BBC increased its off-screen target to 25% – a target that focuses on ethnic diversity, disability and socioeconomic diversity. In terms of on-screen diversity - Black, Asian, minority, ethnic representation on screen this financial year ⁠rose to 30.2% on the BBC, which was previously 29% and then 26.8% in 2020. The BBC’s Diversity Development Fund (which stands at over £2 million) is there to support independents, nurture and develop careers of underrepresented production talent in mid to senior level roles. The BBC’s Diversity Development Fund has so far enabled placements for 135 individuals from underrepresented backgrounds across more than 100 productions, focusing on mid to senior roles. The BBC has spent £1.3 million on funding access adjustments on productions. Why did it take such a cataclysmic societal shift to spur the BBC to reflect on their own lack of diversity, their failings and publicly acknowledge the need to do better? Although Schibli herself wasn't holding her position at the BBC at the time (it was June Sarpong that was appointed as Director of Creative Diversity in 2020), I pose the question to Schibli. 2020 was a period that made everyone reflect, Schibli says, saying that "it was really recognised that the change in the media industry wasn't happening quickly enough, things were happening but not at the pace maybe that it was needed. I think there was a real sense that concrete action is what was needed to bring about that real change". Schibli says that it's nice now to be in her position and see that the BBC delivered on their initial targets, but says that the commitment goes beyond the numbers, it's about making sure there's real momentum. Citing unscripted shows like Gladiators, Race Across the World, BACKLASH: The Murder of George Floyd, Rose Ayling-Ellis: Old Hands, New Tricks and Amol Rajan Goes to the Ganges to scripted productions like Boarders, Dreaming Whilst Black, Black Ops and Virdee, Schibli underlines the "amazing breadth of content" that the BBC has under its belt currently. "No one else does [it], actually in terms of that real breadth of content that we serve. But then how do we continue to keep the momentum to go further? Keep being ambitious, keep being bold about our creative diversity commitments. I think for us, it's really going further with that," she explains. "I think we set that out in our strategy around, how do we then further increase that off-screen representation and have that authenticity in our content? So that it really connects with audiences, that people feel seen and people feel celebrated. So, it's part of the mission, right? It's such a central component of why the BBC exists. Our mission to provide value to all audiences, making sure that everyone across the UK – so it's across the biggest form of diversity, from all backgrounds, all communities – feels like the BBC is for them." Five years on from the events of 2020, many feel as though the commitment to diversity in the media has slowed down recently. But what does the BBC have to say to those concerns? Schibli says that despite market conditions (which are challenging in terms of both work and volume), the BBC is seeing year-on-year progress in their data for both on and offscreen representation. "Black, Asian, minority, ethnic representation onscreen this financial year rose to 30.2% and just to give a bit of context, that was previously 29%. Five years ago, that was 26.8%. The trend is that it's increasing offscreen. We know there's more work to be done, but the trend is there's been year-on-year increase." She continues: "We've invested in real structural change because I think it's so important to think about the long term cultural shifts that we're making to transform the industry. So, it's a more equitable industry for everybody. I think it's also important to say that it's a long term journey and it's important to acknowledge that audiences are changing. Audiences are evolving. The UK is evolving. So, we absolutely have to keep pushing forward." Schibli adds: "I think our public service mission demands that we don't stay still. There is so much more to do to ensure that diversity is consistently reflected across our content, across casting, commissioning. For me, I think it's just really clear that it's about lasting transformation. Yes, we have milestones and we have these measurables, but it's about that real systemic cultural change as well." A lot of recent conversations in the UK drama space have revolved around the lack of funding, described by some as a "crisis" and only indicating possible further trouble for the scripted TV landscape. With reports of some shows being stuck in limbo due to the lack of funding, how is the BBC ensuring that this doesn't disproportionately affect dramas from or about those from racially diverse backgrounds? Asking Schibli just that, the BBC's diversity boss said: "I think the important thing to say, first of all is, despite the market challenges, we are commissioning more drama than anyone else in the UK. If we look, just even at some of the recent content, the sheer breadth and range of our shows means that we can create culturally relevant and really distinctive content. "I think that it goes without saying that diversity is always a key priority for us. Volumes may change, but what doesn't change is the proportion of shows that have landmark portrayals of representation, that are about or made by those from underrepresented groups. Actually, I think if you look at what we brought out in the last year, I think it speaks for itself as well. It's our way of showing that these shows continue to be really important to us." As well as long-running shows like Waterloo Road and EastEnders (ones where "representation is so much at the heart of those titles"), Schibli also takes the time to mention some upcoming exciting productions like The Split Up and the adaptation of Caleb Azumah Nelson's Open Water. It's about making sure there "isn't disproportionate impact", Schibli says, making sure that shows like the aforementioned are "very much at the heart of our slate and what we're bringing to audiences". While the BBC is seen by many as leading the way, Schibli says that it's also an opportunity for the industry to work together, share and collectively improve to serve audiences. "The BBC's remit and mission is to inform, to educate and entertain all audiences across the UK – and that has to be done by reflecting, representing and serving everyone." Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Writer Kaamil Shah: "TV's missing a trick by not supporting Muslim creatives in the way we potentially should"
Count Abdullla creator Kaamil Shah chats to Pass the Mic about the lack of Muslim representation on our screens and his exciting work on BBC's The Split-Up.
Kaamil Shah may be majorly known for creating and penning ITV's Count Abdulla, but the writer has plenty of ideas about the stories he wants to bring to life on screen – and the way the industry should be supporting fellow Muslim and South Asian creatives. The six-part series aired back in 2023. Whilst Shah admits he would've loved to be sitting down for our Pass the Mic interview to talk about the third or fourth season of the Arian Nik-led comedy, he also revealed he's now had "enough distance from it to know that we made something amazing that I think will have a long life." The series focused on Nik's Abdulla Khan, a British-Pakistani junior doctor who's bitten by a vampire with a thirst for halal blood. But it's after becoming a vampire that Abdulla starts to reckon with his own identity, straddling the worlds of his friends and colleagues around him, as well as his religious mother, who is hilariously played by Nina Wadia. The idea for the comedy was born out of Shah "being stupid", he reveals, saying he sat on it for a decade. Shah first thought of it as a web series, writing the scripts and planning to get his friends together to shoot a YouTube pilot. But when the day came round, nobody turned up. Shah explains that he's glad in a way that the shoot fell through because it gave him the opportunity to write it as a half-hour comedy. "It became the calling card for me in the industry. It got me my first agent, my current agent. It got me in with a company called Fudge Park. It's set up by the producers of The Inbetweeners so they're comedy legends. They pitched it to literally every single broadcaster that was doing comedy at the time, and everybody said no until we finally got to ITV. "I never expected it to be on ITV, and we were really lucky that the commissioner there just loved the idea. Really got behind it, and then the show came out of that, probably about six years from the initial idea. So it was a really long process of getting from the idea to screen." At the time, ITV was looking to launch ITVX and on the hunt for something "really fresh and different from what they'd done before" so it was the perfect window of opportunity for Count Abdulla to be brought to life. Writing all six episodes as a debut writer was "one of the best years of my life", Shah says, with the central premise morphing into a story "that was more interesting about identity. What it's like being both a vampire and a Muslim and an outsider in both of those worlds. What it's like dealing with Islamophobia in wider society, but also having difficulties with your own community." If you haven't watched the series, you may be surprised at how deftly it shines a light on what it means to be a young South Asian Muslim living in the UK. Not an easy feat for a show that's supposed to leave you giggling at every turn. Unfortunately, the series wasn't renewed for a second season and it's a decision that was "heartbreaking", Shah says plainly. In terms of the reaction to the show once it debuted, Shah admits: "I'll be honest with you, I think we wanted a lot more. I think we felt that we'd made just the best show that we could have possibly made at the time. "I felt like we put a lot of heart and soul into it, and we did something with Muslim characters and Asian characters that I don't think had ever really been done before, but I don't think it really got seen as that for whatever reason." He continues: "I think it was just kind of boxed in as ‘quirky little comedy’, which it is, it's silly and fun. But it was a bit disheartening I think in the initial weeks after it came out, that it hadn't made the splash that necessarily we wanted it to." The decision not to renew was a "long process", with Shah explaining "there was stuff to do with the strikes in the US and I think just the changing TV market". "I think a lot of people at ITV were really behind the show and wanted to do it, but it was a really challenging time to recommission a show like that. And it did good numbers – I can't give you the exact figures but I think they were numbers that would work for many broadcasters. But ITV is a really competitive broadcaster. We accept that they were not in a position to go ahead with it but we had a lot more to say." Now, Shah is working on the anticipated spin-off series to BBC's The Split, The Split Up. Announced back in 2024, the series is said to focus on "the high-stakes world of Manchester’s divorce law circuit, where one family of lawyers, the Kishans, reigns supreme," according to its official synopsis. Representing the Indian and Pakistani diaspora is integral to Shah's work. Working on The Split Up as the only man in the room (alongside Sonali Bhattacharyya and Sumerah Srivastav) has given Shah the opportunity to be forthright about "standing up for the British Asian man. We can be hot too." As an episodic writer, Shah says the experience has been fantastic. The Split Up is set to be "an excellent gift to the creative community of South Asians", especially based on how much of a huge hit The Split was. Shah continues: "I think having that imprint on this show hopefully will bridge, potentially, an audience that [...] commissioners can sometimes think might hold off on watching a show with a primarily South Asian cast. So I think having The Split brand identity to it will give it a legitimacy in the eyes of that audience and then, hopefully, really spread out and reach a really wide pool of people." Series creator Abi Morgan has been part of the process and is someone who Shah describes as "really generous" not just with her time, but also "to give this kind of space to British Asian creatives as well, to take her brilliant format and develop it." While we'll all just have to bide our time to see what will go down in each episode of The Split Up, rest assured that it already sounds like the kind of drama we'll get swept up in in no time. "It's with a new family of British Asian divorce lawyers in Manchester. It's doing something very different with British Asians on screen. I think it's really sexy," Shah says. "I'm really proud to be working on a show that's genuinely got heart-stopping moments of British Asians being messy, having relationship dramas, affairs and all of these fun things." Working on The Split Up has been fun and exciting, but also an important opportunity to further the narrative of having multifaceted desirable characters from marginalised communities as well. It's something that has "always been important" to Shah, who underlines that it was key for Count Abdulla also. "To make sure that we are saying that we as a community can be sexy, interesting and different in that way, as well as having these deep and complex internal lives, and talking about the issues as well," Shah says. "I think sometimes when you’re from a community that struggles to get representation, the immediate instinct can be to talk about problems like racism, honour killing or whatever rather than to just be joyful or yourselves, [or] talk about all aspects of your life on television. "So that’s always been really important for me as a creative, to give South Asian characters the space to live life as I see it, which is not full of problems and it’s not full of difficulties. Conflict is still central to drama and I’m not going to be doing something that’s really sanitised and not talking about anything. "But I’m also allowing my characters and the community at large to do things that we don’t always expect to see on TV." At the time of speaking, it marks one year since the anti-immigration riots that took place across the UK in 2024. They were highlighted as an example of a rise in hate speech and far-right thinking, while recent news bulletins continue to report on protests outside hotels that house asylum seekers across the UK. TV reflects the world we live in, but are executives reticent to making stories about Muslim characters centre-stage on TV? "Potentially, I can't speak to the whole TV industry and I know there's many figures who are powerful and want to speak more about these things," Shah says. "Look, I think if you've read Sayeeda Warsi’s book Muslims Don't Count, you'll see that Islamophobia and anti-Muslim racism is not considered as important or a topic of worthy discussion, in spite of the fact that we literally had anti-Muslim race riots last year. We had similar anti-refugee violence, like a week ago. I think it's similar for many communities that are not being heard in the industry. "Given the slowdown and the difficulties in the US currently, it's difficult for all marginalised communities. But I do think we are missing a trick by not supporting Muslim creatives in the way we potentially should." He continues: "I remember feeling very powerless last year, because I really felt like a lot of what I was going to do for season 2 and 3 of Count Abdulla, in my plans, would really have addressed a lot of the stuff that was being said during that sort of summer race riots that we had. That is a disheartening feeling, because you want to feel powerful and you want to feel part of the conversation. You can only do that when you're being commissioned as a screenwriter. "There's so many myths about the Muslim community and we’re really treated as a monolith as well. And I think it's really imperative for British media and particularly television, to start breaking down some of those narratives, start showing different stories. "I think it's down to creatives like Nida Manzoor, Guz Khan, Adeel Akhtar, Riz Ahmed, to just name a few who have been doing amazing work to bring that down. But I think we need a lot more. "You can just read any paper today and you can see that there is so much misinformation and mutual suspicion in communities. I think TV, media and representation is the key thing that brings people together." Viewers have pointed to a wide chasm when it comes to Muslim representation on TV but since the riots last year, has there been a recognition of that and a shifting of the tide in any way? “To be honest, I’m not sure I’ve seen it," Shah admits. "I’m not sure I’ve seen much of an outreach to find specifically diverse shows and I think we’re still finding the same barriers, the same kind of sense that really diverse and different shows about my community and other communities – I think they’re still finding it very difficult to penetrate that kind of concrete ceiling." He continues: "I will say, the progress that has been made is largely on the back of just undeniable talent and certain creatives who have just pushed through and broken through. But is there enough being done in terms of the people in power to empower creatives from particularly the Muslim community? I would say there’s been a bit more of a firming up against those voices actually." Shah speaks of the world of unscripted television. More recently, there's been the recent controversy surrounding the release of documentary, Gaza: Doctors Under Attack after the BBC said it would no longer air it due to the risk of creating “a perception of partiality”. Channel 4 aired it instead but those conversations around Palestine show the "many difficulties being faced by those that want to cover that conflict and so many other conflicts that are very important to the Muslim community, in particular." Shah continues: "We don’t know with drama, we can’t tell whether there have been shows that have been commissioned off of the back of the riots last year because drama takes a long time in the oven. "In terms of what I’ve seen personally, yes I’m working and doing great stuff. I’m trying to reflect and tell stories that will break down a lot of these narratives in everything that I do but I’m still finding it extremely difficult to get stuff commissioned and to get stuff worked. "I would hope that the urgency of what I am doing would be clearer to the industry but it’s always going to be competitive. It’s just something that I’ve come to accept I guess as a creative of colour and hopefully something that I can when I have more power.” As Shah mentions, the world of drama is its own beast and the screenwriter describes himself as "a bit of a neophyte" in the genre. Because of the sheer lack of representation, Shah highlights the pressure there can sometimes be to encapsulate everyone's experiences within the British Asian and Muslim community. Speaking of the conversations that arose after the release of We Are Lady Parts, Shah says many Muslim viewers asked whether the Nida Manzoor comedy made them feel completely seen. "I think that speaks to the wider conversation, which is that: Why does one show need to speak for all Muslims?", Shah says. "I felt that whilst writing Count Abdulla. I was really worried that this was going to be one of two or three shows that are about Muslims on TV. Am I representing the community right? And that becomes quite a prism. "We've taken a huge stride with something like We Are Lady Parts, but I think the conversation that developed around it shows how much further we need to go in terms of commissioning stuff from different Muslim communities, not just Pakistani but like British African Muslims, even white converts. "I want to be sat here in five years time, talking about my new show and it's not going to be ‘the Muslim show’, it's going to be: it's a show that's completely about this." It's a challenging landscape to navigate as an underrepresented writer, with Shah describing some of the ludicrous feedback he received about Count Abdulla from a commissioner who thought the titular character wasn't, in their words, "Muslim enough". They even went so far as to question if Shah should put in an "extremism angle" into the comedy, which only feeds back into the damaging stereotypes Shah would prefer the South Asian and Muslim onscreen narratives moved away from. "To be brutally honest, how many dramas have genuinely been commissioned from full stop British Asian writers? I think it’s like one in 10 years. That’s really disheartening," Shah says. "It’s very challenging with drama. I think the commissioners and the people who control UK drama feel like there’s a lot more at stake, I guess, with drama. They feel potentially more conservative in terms of who they work with so we do see the same people getting the good jobs, over and over again. Look, they’re great writers and they’ve done a lot to bring up other people but it’s damaging that it’s been such a struggle for a British Asian showrunner to break through. It hasn’t really happened. "There’s not a British Asian drama showrunner in this country. I would hope that it’s something that the commissioners are really thinking about and making active steps to find those people, hopefully I’m one of them. Having had a bit of experience under my belt. But yeah, it’s still really challenging. I wish I could come and say ‘I think we’ve finally cracked it’ but it’s just not there." Looking to the future, Shah hopes to see a lot more being done in terms of representation and diversity on TV, beaming at the hope he has for "a period drama that has creatives of colour at its heart". "How many Jane Austen adaptations are coming out this year alone? But I think that there's just so much of British history and relationships between the different racial groups in history that is just completely unexplored," he says. Shah speaks of dreams of bringing the story of Sheikh Dean Mahomed to life for the screen, and of The Moonstone, which he did develop for TV. But industry feedback was simply "we just can't do period dramas". As of now, Shah is working on "a really fun family drama with a very well-known actor, a British Asian actor, who I think has been a huge trailblazer for the community in the past 10 years." While he can't reveal too many details just yet, he teased: "It's a really warm and loving family drama about mixed up families and what it means to be mixed-race and British Asian, which I think is something that hasn't really been spoken about at all in the conversation. Going way back to East is East, I think we've really not had much in that regard, for a long time." Shah also hopes to incorporate his own Hindu background into his work, saying: "I've been working on something which is about reincarnation but also a romcom, and about taking the aspects of like past lives into your own life and into your relationships. "I'm just really hoping we can find the right broadcaster and the right actors to really bring, I think, what could be just the warmest and most fun hug of a show that I want to give to the industry." Count Abdulla is available to stream on ITVX. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. 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Beyond Bend It Like Beckham: 15 impactful films and TV shows spotlighting South Asian Britain
Because as much as we like the classic 2002 film, it's not where representation starts and ends.
With the recent news that Bend It Like Beckham is set to get an anticipated sequel movie, there's no understating just how influential and remarkable the 2002 Gurinder Chadha-penned hit was when it was released. Since its release more than 20 years ago, the comedy (which starred Parminder Nagra and Keira Knightley) continues to stand the test of time and for many South Asian fans, was one of the first impactful depictions of a community that we don't always get to see on our screens. While the movie is certainly one for the books and we look forward to any news regarding the sequel, Bend It Like Beckham is far from the only production that positively represents the multifaceted stories of the British South Asian community. From recent crime drama hits like BBC's Virdee to classic films like East Is East or My Beautiful Launderette, there are some stellar examples of South Asian representation that have challenged stereotypes and provided meaningful representation – and it's time to celebrate them. Whether you're unfamiliar with the love story of Bridgerton's Kate Sharma or haven't yet toe-tapped your way through Yesterday, here are 15 titles that deliver impactful storytelling about what it means to be South Asian in Britain and should be added to your watchlist. 1. Unicorns (2024) Genre: Drama/LGBTQ+ romance Where to watch: Netflix Follows a queer South Asian drag performer and a single father mechanic. Explores identity, belonging and visibility for queer British South Asian communities. 2. My Beautiful Laundrette (1985) Genre: Romantic comedy-drama Where to watch: Available to rent or buy on Prime Video A young British Pakistani man runs a laundrette in Thatcher-era London while navigating romance with a former white schoolmate. Known for its frank portrayal of race, sexuality and immigrant life. 3. Four Lions (2010) Genre: Political satire/dark comedy Where to watch: Prime Video A satire about a group of inept British Pakistani men aspiring to commit a terrorist act. Humanises its characters while challenging media stereotypes. 4. Polite Society (2023) Genre: Martial arts action comedy Where to watch: Available to rent or buy on Prime Video Follows two British Pakistani sisters in London as one plans a daring wedding heist. Blends family drama, humour and action with a celebration of South Asian culture. 5. East Is East (1999) Genre: Comedy-drama Where to watch: Available to purchase and stream on Apple TV, Google Play Movies, YouTube and Sky Store Set in 1970s Salford, it follows a British Pakistani family balancing cultural expectations and personal freedom. Highlights generational and cultural tensions. 6. One Day (2024) Genre: Romantic drama Where to watch: Netflix The 2024 series casts Ambika Mod as the female lead, offering meaningful representation of South Asian women in mainstream romance. 7. Bridgerton season 2 (2022) Genre: Period drama Where to watch: Netflix Features South Asian actors in lead roles within Regency-era high society. Representation is visible in casting and aesthetics rather than cultural narrative. 8. Yesterday (2019) Genre: Fantasy/musical romantic comedy Where to watch: Netflix Stars Himesh Patel as a British Indian musician who becomes famous after discovering he is the only person who remembers the Beatles. Lightly touches on heritage through character and family scenes. 9. Blinded by the Light (2019) Genre: Musical comedy-drama Where to watch: Prime Video via Lionsgate+ Based on Sarfraz Manzoor’s memoir. Follows a British Pakistani teenager in 1980s Luton whose love for Bruce Springsteen inspires him to follow his dreams while facing racism and family expectations. 10. Matangi/Maya/MIA (2018) View oEmbed on the source website Genre: Documentary Where to watch: Available to purchase and stream on Prime Video, Apple TV, Google Play Movies, YouTube and Sky Store Profiles British Sri Lankan Tamil rapper MIA, exploring her life, activism, and how her immigrant background shaped her music and political voice. 11. Count Abdulla (2023) Genre: Comedy Where to watch: ITVX When British Pakistani junior doctor Abdulla Khan is bitten by a vampire who is on the look for halal blood, he finds himself at a major life crossroads as he struggles to navigate his identity in terms of his career, family, culture and those around him. 12. We Are Lady Parts (2021-2024) Genre: Comedy Where to watch: Channel 4 Nida Manzoor's defining comedy series centres on an all-female Muslim punk band who play by their own rules. Whilst this series is very much about the diversity of London and the multifaceted Muslim experience, the comedy does aptly spotlight Amina and Saira's experiences of living their truth as South Asian women. 13. Mogul Mowgli (2020) Genre: Drama Where to watch: Available to purchase and stream on Prime Video, Apple TV, YouTube and Sky Store Riz Ahmed stars in this mind-bending movie as a British Pakistani rapper who is struck down by an autoimmune disease. While his lifelong dreams of making it big time are threatened, this film is about much more than that as we're wrapped up in hallucinations and impactful dialogue that unpacks Partition, cultural identity and family. 14. Virdee (2025) Genre: Drama Where to watch: BBC iPlayer Based on AA Dhand's novel series, this BBC crime drama stars Staz Nair in the leading role as the titular Bradford-based detective. When a serial killer starts targeting the South Asian community in his town, he must get to grips with the investigation, as well as a mounting pile of personal family problems. 15. Man Like Mobeen (2017-2025) Genre: Comedy-drama Where to watch: BBC iPlayer Written and created by Guz Khan, this series charts Mobeen's journey to looking after his sister singlehandedly. A former drug dealer, plenty of laughs ensue as he just tries to follow his faith and lead a good life in Small Heath. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Hostage's Ashley Thomas: "I want things that I do to be seminal and meaningful, have an impact"
Thomas sits down with Pass the Mic to talk about his latest role in Netflix's Hostage and balancing acting with being an acclaimed music artist.
When we sit down to chat about his latest role in Hostage, Ashley Thomas has just come back from playing Glastonbury and just days before our interview, he made his debut on hit YouTube live music channel COLORS with a mesmerising rendition of album closing track Midnight in Balans. Known by his stage name of Bashy to those of us who grew up listening to his music via Channel U (later known as Channel AKA), just last year Thomas made his anticipated return to the world of music after a 15-year gap with his album Being Poor Is Expensive. The body of work – which is a compelling tribute to his upbringing in North West London – went on to be widely critically acclaimed, with Thomas himself being nominated for an Ivor Novello award and then bagging both the Album of the Year and Best Hip Hop Act accolades at the 2025 MOBO Awards. All of that to say, Thomas is more than a little busy these days straddling both worlds of acting and music. Surely, sitting down to do press interviews for a Netflix thriller must feel slightly surreal, I suggest. "It feels good. I feel very fortunate and blessed that both my core disciplines are running at the same time," he says. "I’m able to showcase my art and my creativity through my two disciplines. The response to everything has just been really positive, whether it be music or acting. I guess that’s all I’ve ever worked for and prayed for." Starring in the new Netflix thriller as Dr Alex Anderson, Thomas's character is pretty integral not just to the general plot of the drama, but in terms of the literal title of the series. Married to Suranne Jones's Abigail Dalton, Alex works for Médecins Sans Frontières and is abroad in French Guiana when he is kidnapped. Used as a pawn in a wider plot to disarm his prime minister wife, Alex is simply a well-intentioned man trying to do good by his family and those around him. It's something that stuck out to Thomas when he first read for the role, with Thomas revealing that it was Alex's "heart" that really struck a chord for him. "To see a good man on the television, for me, it’s just important to see this guy’s heart. This father, this husband, this good man. He’s a good person and his care – he cares for his wife, his daughter but he also cares for his colleagues. So, for me, seeing that was like, 'OK, cool.' It’s another type of character. I’ve played good men before, but this is a different type." As well as the series boasting "exceptional writing from Matt Charman", Thomas also takes a moment to praise his co-star and Hostage executive producer Suranne Jones. Obviously, due to the very nature of the plot, Jones and Thomas don't share loads of scenes together, so for Thomas, it was important and necessary "to buy the relationship in that short space". Thomas continues: "Working with Suranne was easy. We just had such a vibe on set, she’s so friendly and just banter-y, always smiling and laughing – it made it a joy to work with her and go to set. I was happy waking up every morning and going to work with Suranne. "The opening scene, where you see them walking through the woods, that was our first day on set. Usually, that’s a difficult day for a lot of people – first day on set, taking a moment to warm up... but we just got straight into it." While the series doesn't explicitly name political parties, it is very much rooted in current affairs, with discussions around immigration, riots and the NHS alongside all the twists and turns you expect from any fast-paced Netflix series. "It’s relevant and it feels current, I think people will be able to resonate with it. I think it’s entertaining. It’s a political thriller, it’s set in the government and in Downing Street, but it’s also set in MSF (Médecins Sans Frontières). The work that people are doing, that I wasn’t familiar with before I started this series. I wasn’t aware of MSF and the incredible work that they’re doing." Speaking about what people may take from the series, Thomas said: "I think it will open people’s eyes to what’s happening if they’re not already aware. I hope it resonates with people on a political level about what’s happening in the world, but also just the human element of the characters – that they will relate to Abigail as someone who’s in a position of power but she’s a mother, a wife, a daughter, she’s juggling all those relationships and feelings. "Similar to Alex, he’s a doctor, someone who has a very crucial job in our society. But also at the same time, he’s a father, a husband, so I hope people can relate to that and the choices that they have to make, the internal conflict of him as a man." Alongside filming for Hostage, Thomas tells me, he was also in the midst of releasing Being Poor Is Expensive, describing how he had to go from filming on location in the Canary Islands back to London to record a live album session at Maida Vale Studios. While many may think of it as a tonal whiplash, Thomas takes both art forms in his stride, having worked hard in both industries for years now. Thomas took quite the pause in his music career, but during that time he threw himself into acting with notable roles in Them: Covenant, 2023's Great Expectations, Black Cake and The Serpent Queen. Many will also recognise Thomas for his roles in Top Boy, 24: Legacy and The Ipcress File, with the star having also just starred in Channel 4's In Flight. While Thomas has achieved acting success in the US, he says that it was always "important to me, being from London and the UK, that I also come back and try to work here". It's no secret that many Black British actors have spoken out about the difference in opportunities in the US versus the UK, with the ongoing conversation rightfully surrounding stereotyping and the kinds of roles that are on offer for Black actors on this side of the pond. "Was it something that you were conscious of when taking on more US TV roles over the years?" I pose to Thomas. "I was working over here [in the UK] at the time as well. I didn’t want to reach any sort of ceiling, I wanted to do it as I was working here. I never want to turn around and be upset with myself for things. There was an opportunity there [in the US] and I went. "I’ve got a lot of love for America, it’s provided me with an opportunity, big opportunities as well. At the time, maybe those type of roles weren’t available. So I had no other choice but to go there and do that. But of course, it is one of the biggest places of storytelling for film and television. I love working there," he says. View oEmbed on the source website His second studio album was quite the return to form for Thomas, who hadn't released any music in nearly two decades. Seeing as Being Poor Is Expensive marked such an overwhelmingly positive homecoming to music, having an impact like that in one field must have a knock-on effect on one's other work. "For me, it’s just about – it’s got to be authentic. It’s got to come from an authentic place; whatever that story is, it’s got to be real. I’m a storyteller, and I think the deeper I get into my art and the discipline, the more discerning I become. "If I was going to return to music after 15 years, what am I saying? It doesn’t even have to be overly positive or overly one thing, it’s just about, 'What am I saying?' Very discerning, what am I putting out there in the world?" Thomas continues: "I want things that I do to be seminal and meaningful, have an impact. The same with my acting choices. It’s got to be meaningful, it's got to be powerful, set a precedent, or not been seen before, push the boundaries of the art or the character. "That’s what I’m coming from – me playing this character, coming from where I come from, [if] this hasn’t been seen before, hasn’t been done before. So to continue down that path, that’s it – discernment, making sure that I’m doing my best work, trying my best. Even if it doesn’t come out good. But I know that I’ve tried to make it amazing." Thomas has never been one to shy away from social or political commentary in his own music, which is likely a lot easier to do when you're the one in the driving seat of the studio. But in terms of TV dramas and the kinds of stories we're seeing on screen, Thomas says that there's still more to be done, stating that he wants stories that show "that no one’s a monolith". Wanting to see "the nuances, layers and colours of who we are as a people", Thomas says that he'd love "to see it all", but also underlines the need for behind-the-scenes representation as well. "I’d love to just see different stories being championed and people being given opportunities behind the camera, in writing, at the commissioning level," he says. Thomas says that there are also not a lot of inroads into the industry for those looking to get involved in acting, which is something that should change, as the industry is a great one, he beams. Crossing over from music into acting isn't something that Thomas is alone in doing, with plenty of notable stars (and co-stars of Thomas's) like Little Simz, Kano, Ghetts and Ashley Walters all having starred in standout productions. Walters, Thomas reveals, was actually his initial inspiration for wanting to get into acting properly. "I was inspired by Ashley Walters, I was like, 'Oh, his name’s Ashley, he’s acting and doing music, so it’s possible,'" he laughs. Seeing some of the UK's most lauded musical artists also being accomplished actors signals the way the tide must be turning in regards to who we see on our screens, I tell Thomas. "I think it shows that people are multifaceted and you don’t just have to create in one way. If you are really about art and creativity, you can possibly turn your skillset to something else, learn and develop a different craft and become successful. I mean, what is success? But become creative in that space." He adds: "To see the next wave of people coming through, that’s what we’re doing it for. Not just holding the space for yourself, you don’t want to be the only one, you know?" Thomas does briefly tease the fact that he's "doing something next that's amazing" after Hostage, but remains tight-lipped. As we wrap up, it would be criminal of me not to quiz such a skilled lyricist about the possibility of putting pen to paper in relation to TV or film. So, I ask him if there would ever be the possibility of doing so. "Yeah, I believe so. I’m a storyteller – I do it in music, but there are ways for me to be able to turn that. I think my album is that way because I’m around amazing storytellers, some of the best in the world. "Matt Charman has written this amazing story that takes you on a journey. Being around that level of exceptional writing, I would say by process of osmosis and being around people like that, [it] must have an influence over me, subconsciously somehow. "So when I’m thinking of how to make an album or how I’m going to tell a story on a song, that is influencing my storytelling. So in the future, for sure, God willing, I’d have the time to do that." In terms of the genre of TV he'd hope to write for, Thomas says he'd want to do "anything", naming "sci-fi, drama, comedy, romance" all as viable options. But Thomas also takes the time to recognise that "we can do anything". He cites Sinners and Dreaming Whilst Black as two examples of stellar diverse storytelling, saying of both that they have "incredible, beautiful storytelling, [and are] shot beautifully and great all round". When I ask him about the kinds of Black British storytelling he'd hope to see more of, he reveals: "I would like to see more elevated, high-level stories, extraordinary stories, extraordinary circumstances. And then I also just want to see ordinary stories." He continues: "High stakes, big budget, but then I also want to see ordinary stories, regular people. I want to see a story about a young guy from the ends that loves his dog or he wants to learn horse riding. That’s when, to me, there’s serious headway made when normal and extraordinary stories can be told." Hostage is now streaming on Netflix. Sign up for Netflix from £5.99 a month. Netflix is also available on Sky Glass and Virgin Media Stream. Add Hostage to your watchlist on the Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Ridley's George Bukhari on stereotypes, colour-blind casting and the need for "complex" South Asian stories
Known for his roles in Ridley and Ordinary Lies, George Bukhari writes about his conscious decision to not feed into "lazy stereotypes" and what kinds of stories he wants to see on TV.
When discussing diversity in the arts, I think it’s important to start at the beginning – when I graduated from drama school. I trained from 2008 to 2011, a period that was deeply formative for me. I made friends for life and learned the craft of acting. But even then, there was a running joke across the years: each class had only one Black student and one Asian student. If you were lucky, one of each gender. Thankfully, things have changed. Drama schools and casting panels today are much more diverse, and there’s now a greater focus on ensuring talent isn’t overlooked because of background or ethnicity. That shift has been powerful to witness. Looking back on my career so far, I feel proud – not just of the roles I’ve played, but of the ones I’ve turned down. Time and again, I was offered parts that fell into lazy stereotypes: terrorists, shopkeepers, criminals, or immigrants. I made a conscious decision not to compromise myself by accepting roles that mocked or reduced the culture that raised me and shaped who I am. Even in comedy, the humour often came at the expense of identity – and I wasn’t willing to sell mine short. My turning point came with Ordinary Lies, where I played "Fat Jason". The role was originally written for a white actor, but thanks to the forward-thinking approach of Nicola Shindler – who, at the time, was leading at Red Productions – I was cast through colour-blind casting. It was the first time I was able to portray a character with real emotional depth and vulnerability. Even more significantly, in Ridley, I finally had the chance to play a senior police officer – a welcome shift from the criminal stereotypes I’d often been offered. That casting felt like a true reflection of the society we live in, and the direction we need to keep moving in. When I booked that role, I spoke with the producers and we agreed to shape the character as a mixed-heritage officer, so that he could more accurately reflect me. As an actor, it’s always about the given circumstances and being able to relate to the character truthfully. We renamed him Darren Lakan (formerly Darren Benton), which felt more authentic to the story we wanted to tell. That choice wasn't made in a vacuum. When I first got into acting, I remember sneaking out of my room after my parents had gone to bed, switching on the TV with the volume muted, and being completely captivated by the faces on the screen, particularly those in black-and-white wartime films. But there were never any Asian faces. Not in those, and rarely even in British dramas back in the ’90s and early 2000s. Seeing someone who looked like me on screen was almost unheard of, apart from perhaps Dev Alahan (Jimmi Harkishin) on Corrie or the central family in 1999's East Is East. Television has come a long way, and that progress is worth celebrating. But there’s still more to be done. There is a wealth of emerging South Asian talent out there waiting for opportunities, but they’re often overlooked in favour of the same few familiar faces. We need to open the doors wider and allow new talent to break through to allow us to showcase our craft on a deeper level. Not just with bit parts, but with stories and characters that are complex, layered, and central to the narrative. We need more representation not just in casting, but within the heart of our households – on screen, in writers’ rooms, and in positions of creative power. Only then can we fully reflect the world we live in. Ridley returns to ITV1 and ITVX on Sunday 10th August 2025. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast. Add Ridley to your watchlist on the <a id="OWA8b702c45-bee9-94e4-f018-57518e78041b" title="https://www.radiotimes.com/download-the-app/?af_xp=custom&pid=website&c=editorial_content&is_retargeting=true&af_reengagement_window=30d" href="https://www.radiotimes.com/download-the-app/?af_xp=custom&pid=website&c=editorial_content&is_retargeting=true&af_reengagement_window=30d" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-outlook-id="449c28d9-909e-4aab-b6b8-153454f55d5e" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-linkindex="0">Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more.
Director and podcaster Poppy Jay: "I think South Asian women are so starved of content"
The multi-hyphenate sat down with Pass the Mic to chat about Brown Girls Do It Too, Edinburgh Fringe and the TV industry.
Tackling your first ever Edinburgh Fringe as a performer, adapting a hit podcast for the stage and balancing a 9-5 job as a documentary director would tire any person out – and while the prospect of being in Scotland for a month is daunting for Poppy Jay, the multi-hyphenate is simply taking everything in her stride. Starting off in a TV industry that attempted to pigeonhole her into either being a presenter or a producer, Jay has gone on to "do every job you can think of in TV," from being a researcher, undercover reporter, director, producer and – outside of the screen – a podcast host and thespian. For many, you'll know Jay for her signature no-nonsense co-hosting of Brown Girls Do It Too, a multi award-winning podcast that she helmed with Rubina Pabani (and formerly with Roya Eslami) for six hilarious and informative seasons. Known affectionately as the Shagony Aunties, Jay and Pabani talked openly about sex, relationships, dating and everything in between, providing a relatable and much-needed podcast aimed at tackling 'taboo' subjects within South Asian culture. Now, Jay and Pabani are taking Brown Girls Do It Too on the road once again, for a month-long stint at Edinburgh Fringe, no less. Having done a series of 'work in progress' and preview shows at London's Soho Theatre, Brown Girls Do It Too: Mama Told Me Not to Come is taking the stage at, arguably, one of the greatest celebrations and hubs of art, comedy and culture. Taking to Soho Theatre was already a feat worth celebrating for Jay, who underlines the fact that it's "new territory," because brown and Black women aren't often seen in these spaces to begin with. It's still a nerve-wracking experience, though, and as Jay puts it: “I’m absolutely s**ting myself," underlining that although they've already taken to the stage with their show twice beforehand: "Edinburgh is a complete different kettle of fish." “Brown Girls Do It Too, out of everything in my career, is probably the thing that gives me the most excitement. It sounds really lame to say, but it’s the most impactful work that I do. It pays the least, but it’s always the way, isn’t it?" she tells me. The stage production of the podcast is an extension of what they did on the airwaves, this time employing sketches, acting and singing (which Jay does "badly", in her opinion) to celebrate "brown British women, genital warts and all," according to its synopsis. "Theatre is not really a welcome space for people from minority backgrounds. Why would they pay that price when they could hear us talk for free on a podcast platform? In true Asian style, we’re going to be A*, give a show, a dance, give jazz hands. It’s just been really interesting to see how the show has changed and evolved," Jay states proudly. It's also "an homage to Goodness Gracious Me," Jay explains, talking of the "seminal" '90s sketch show. "It’s sad but I still think that’s the one show that really represented us. You wouldn’t get a Goodness Gracious Me now. Would it work? I don’t know." As for the Brown Girls Do It Too podcast, that came about much in the style of assembling the Spice Girls, Jay jokes, settling on actually being more akin to (the equally as brilliant) Atomic Kitten or Sugababes. Having met Pabani and Eslami in the BBC canteen, the trio clearly had the chemistry needed for the podcast's first six episodes. But Jay knew she'd likely only be seeing her co-hosts once a year and bid them farewell, knowing that BBC Asian Network weren't going to pick Brown Girls Do It Too back up for a second season. But that all changed when they bagged two British Podcast Awards, which "completely changed our trajectory". Despite the success, and returning for a second season (without Eslami), Brown Girls Do It Too was still subject to its fair share of trolling. "They only recommissioned us because of this podcast. It was really interesting sitting on the BBC Asian Network because I think their listeners [are] older and a lot more conservative, so we got a lot of backlash, we got a lot of trolls," Jay says. "It was just really interesting seeing how our own community took us. It was young girls from the South Asian community, from the minority ethnic community who were like ‘These girls are talking in a way that I don’t even talk to my mates this way’. In all honesty, we spoke the way we did because we thought nobody was going to listen." The trolling was like water off a duck's back for Jay, mostly, but it did impact her on a more personal level. Two of her sisters stopped speaking to her after an episode about masturbation started going viral, with Jay saying of it: "When the trolling is happening from someone I know, it really affects me.” View oEmbed on the source website Having a podcast focused on sex and relationships wasn't a revolutionary concept at the time, but having one headed up by South Asian women clearly proved to be. "Something Rubina says is that there were so many sex and relationship podcasts when we came out, it just felt radical for us because it’s such a taboo in our community," Jay explains. "Even though there’s like a billion Indian people and we must be having sex, it’s such a stigma and such a taboo. To even have two – initially it was three – of us talk about sex in the way that we did, it was really disgusting and candid." The podcast was clearly a hit, but what it's given Jay is a flourishing community and "tribe of women we’ve built," she beams. "I think South Asian women are so starved of content, we’ve got amazing and incredible male, brown, South Asian comedians but where are the brown ladies at? Certainly there’s this hunger because when I’m trauma-bonding with these South Asian women in the Soho Theatre bar, it’s like ‘where were you when I was 15?’. But who did I have when I was 15? We didn’t have these role models, but I think the tide is changing now, especially with social media.” You wouldn't be able to helm a podcast about sex and relationships without getting personal, and it's the raw honesty of Brown Girls Do It Too that has seen it go from stride to stride, now entering into this new form after the final emotional episode was released in April earlier this year. It's easy to be forthright and honest when you're sitting down with a microphone in a studio, but how does that translate to Jay's work in the TV industry? Having directed Young, British and Anti-Abortion most recently, she details how her raw and open honesty actually started with TV because of her upbringing. "I grew up in a community that said ‘don’t do anything because what would people think’. So my whole life, I was constantly told you have to act a certain way, be a certain way, be obedient, dress right, you have to be a good girl," she explains. Jay started off her career journey with dreams of being a doctor, going on to work in the NHS but soon realising that medicine "required a certain level of discipline that I did not have". Thanks to a BBC Academy journalism internship and a supportive mentor who nudged her in the direction of a journalism masters, Jay went into the chaotic world of radio news. Leaving that behind, she went on to work as a researcher on a documentary about the Rana Plaza factory disaster. They were looking for someone from a Bengali background and, in Jay's words, she "smashed" the job and "never looked back". "In 2013 I started working in documentaries and then, this is slightly embarrassing but I’ll say it because I’m okay with it, but I really wanted to be a reporter. I wanted to be a news reporter, I kept thinking ‘my time is going to come’ but it never came because I was constantly being passed – the opportunities were going to other, predominantly white reporters," she says. "In 2019, sort of working my way up the various different chains in the documentary world, I picked up a camera on 24 Hours in Police Custody. Initially, I didn’t want to pick it up but I was just being lazy. "I picked it up and was like ‘Oh my god, I love directing, I love being behind the camera.’ I think the reality is, when you come from a working class background (don’t let the teeth and the accent fool you), your parents are poor and you grew up poor, you are constantly told – it’s that immigrant mentality – ‘you have to work four times as hard’. Also, we’re in the hustle culture, right? You’re constantly doing as much as you can to get noticed," she says. That do-it-all essence can be seen clearly in Young, British and Anti-Abortion which, as well as tackling a challenging subject matter, sees Jay self-shoot contributors while interviewing them, a challenging role that Jay actually relishes. "I love that authored style – Deeyah Khan started it, also Molly Dineen. I love being able to combine the two, like it’s authored but it’s also about you and following you, my interaction with you. It feels very Gonzo, Nick Broomfield-esque but women doing it rather than a guy doing it," she says. Having to think about things like framing and lighting while also quizzing contributors about difficult subject matters is certainly not a walk in the park but in TV, Jay says, you're not allowed to fail or make mistakes. "When you’re from a minority ethnic community and you fail, it’s all word of mouth in my industry and it’s like ‘Oh don’t hire Poppy, she screwed up.’ But I always say this: through making mistakes is when you learn to be creative," she says. Having presented and directed the likes of Young, British and Anti-Abortion, Young, Black and Right Wing and Isis: The British Women Supporters Unveiled, it's safe to say that Jay doesn't shy away from tough topics or conversations. Jay confesses that she loves taking risks, even though the industry she's in doesn't always appreciate that. "They want a safe pair of hands, they want a BAFTA nominated or BAFTA winning director, usually white, usually male who is guaranteed to bring them success. And what is happening now is we’re not breaking new talent." When it comes to those discussions around diversity within TV, Jay admits that she wouldn't "have felt brave to have those conversations even 5/10 years ago". Jay explains that in the wake of major events like COVID, Black Lives Matter, the murder of Sarah Everard and even the #MeToo movement, they "really compelled a lot of my female colleagues/directors to speak out," about diversity and representation. "I mostly hire women and I work with women from minority ethnic backgrounds. I will always do that going forward," Jay says. "I think the tide is turning and I notice, certainly with my Black colleagues post-George Floyd and BLM, I feel like a lot of us were enabled and empowered to speak out about all the micro-aggressions we experience in our community. I don’t think enough change has happened, quite frankly. But I am seeing directors, producers from a minority ethnic background. "I don’t think it’s enough, I think we need to see more of us. The tide is turning. In terms of representation and the D-word, diversity, that’s just a conversation that we keep having all the time – honestly, it’s getting so boring. I feel like sometimes we are put into a category and it still feels like a ticking exercise, it’s not the norm, it’s not the mainstream." As of now, on top of their monumental Edinburgh Fringe tour, Jay also wants to continue to hone her craft in the realm of documentary making. Saying that though, she does reveal that Brown Girls Do It Too has excitingly been optioned for a drama, when I ask her if the podcast has any dreams of hitting the screen. "Me and Rubina are talking to a company. We want to make the brown I May Destroy You, with a bit of Fleabag. I mean, that would be iconic for me," she reveals. Will Jay be bringing her TV prowess to the production? "Rubina and I would love to write an episode or a few episodes, and I would love to direct because I want to get into drama," she says. "This is the thing, probably with ADHD, it’s like ‘I’ve done this, I’ve done this’. I need to learn my craft, I’ve got a lot to learn in documentary but one day in the future, I would love to direct a Brown Girls Do It Too episode." After their month at Edinburgh Fringe, Jay and Pabani will return to London's Soho Theatre but in Walthamstow. The newer venue seats 950 people, a figure that Jay isn't confident they'll fill. "Asians, we roll in big families so I’m going to have to ask every cousin, every family member," she jokes. But more importantly, the September shows in Walthamstow act as a homecoming for a "Waltham Forest girl" who maybe never quite dreamed of taking to the stage as a theatre performer – but can revel in adding the role to an already plentiful and blossoming career. Young, British and Anti-Abortion is available to stream on BBC iPlayer. Brown Girls Do It Too: Mama Told Me Not To Come is being performed at Underbelly at the Edinburgh Fringe from 30th July to 24th August and will then head to Soho Theatre Walthamstow from 9th-13th September. Check out more of our Documentaries coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.