The star of The Crown and Wolf Hall on being pigeonholed — and acting opposite Britain’s meanest birds of prey
Add H is for Hawk to your watchlist Few actors capture the British “stiff upper lip” like Claire Foy. Many first discovered her quiet steel as Anne Boleyn in the BBC’s adaptation of Wolf Hall, but it was playing a young Queen Elizabeth II in The Crown that propelled her to stardom. Now, in new film H Is for Hawk (an adaptation of Helen Macdonald’s 2014 memoir of the same name), Foy plays a reserved Cambridge academic who adopts a goshawk following the death of her father. You spend much of H Is for Hawk with a goshawk on your arm. Was that a daunting prospect? I was nervous! Goshawks are the most difficult birds to handle. Our bird trainers [married couple] Rose and Lloyd Buck said, “Claire will get footed,” which is basically when the bird claws you, “because a goshawk has never not footed a falconer.” And our director [Philippa Lowthorpe] had to say, “No, she won’t!” because otherwise we wouldn’t get insured. I did get footed, but only in the last shot of the whole thing. We used five birds and it was by Jess, the least likely one. It was her little “see you later”. What was it like acting with the goshawks? Every scene with the birds was improvised. There are a couple where I’m talking to the bird and it does a poo. So you have to respond to it, which I found incredibly freeing. In a way it’s much easier than improvising with an actor. The film is a study of grief and depression. Was it challenging? It was emotionally exhausting, but being close to that emotion makes you feel very alive. I think that can be very true of real grief. It can make you live a little bit larger, a bit louder, in response to it. I never saw it as a burden. I never saw it like, “Oh, it’s terrible that I have to feel all these feelings.” Helen actually hardly cries. Did that feel more authentic? Yeah, and I found it an appealing thing to try to communicate: it’s an interior battle. We often presume that what’s happening on the outside is happening on the inside, and it’s just the opposite. So often these things are portrayed as histrionic, but most of us are trying to block those big emotions off a lot of the time. You were previously in First Man and All of Us Strangers, which are also about grief. Is it a theme that you are attracted to? I suppose I must be in a grief phase… It’s certainly not a theme that I’m hunting out. It is a thing that happens to actors. Film-makers see you in things and go, “Oh, OK, they might be good enough to also do this [similar role].” I’m honoured that people think I can touch upon grief. I just want to do things that reflect how people actually live. After Wolf Hall and The Crown, were you offered many roles as a posh English woman? Not massively. There aren’t that many queens and I did two of them! I think any more would be weird. You get offered what people think you’re capable of. The goal as you get older is for that to be broader, not narrower. But we’ll see. Maybe this is it for me for ever. I’m in Grief Alley, everyone, and I can’t get out! Your next film is out of the alley — an adaptation of Enid Blyton’s The Magic Faraway Tree. Is it nice to be in something your nine-year-old daughter can watch? Yeah! Really amazing. My daughter being able to watch it is exciting. I’ve never done that before. It’s just wonderful to be in something joyful, with a heart-warming message. How would you describe The Crown’s impact on your career? I’d been working for almost 10 years when I made it, but nobody knew who I was. It was like being in a blockbuster film. Afterwards, I got opportunities I’d never had before. It’s like the biggest promotion you can imagine. Is a role like that a double-edged sword in that it can define you? No, I don’t think it’s a double-edged sword. I doubt Olivia Newton-John hated being known for Grease – I bet she loved it! If I had just done The Crown and never worked again, that would be one thing. But I don’t feel any pressure to be anything for anyone else, really. I’m just doing my job. How do you feel about fame? It’s an abstract concept. I’ve been known for playing a particular role for about 10 years – sometimes it’s been surreal. It’s been alarming at times, it’s been illuminating. But on the whole, I’ve stayed the same. Protecting your humanity is the most important thing. You have to keep yourself sane.
Claire Foy talks "emotionally exhausting" H Is for Hawk role, playing queens, and why she must be in a "grief phase"
The star of The Crown and Wolf Hall on being pigeonholed – and acting opposite Britain’s meanest birds of prey.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Few actors capture the British “stiff upper lip” like Claire Foy. Many first discovered her quiet steel as Anne Boleyn in the BBC’s adaptation of Wolf Hall, but it was playing a young Queen Elizabeth II in The Crown that propelled her to stardom. Now, in new film H Is for Hawk (an adaptation of Helen Macdonald’s 2014 memoir of the same name), Foy plays a reserved Cambridge academic who adopts a goshawk following the death of her father. You spend much of H Is for Hawk with a goshawk on your arm. Was that a daunting prospect? I was nervous! Goshawks are the most difficult birds to handle. Our bird trainers [married couple] Rose and Lloyd Buck said, “Claire will get footed,” which is basically when the bird claws you, “because a goshawk has never not footed a falconer.” And our director [Philippa Lowthorpe] had to say, “No, she won’t!” because otherwise we wouldn’t get insured. I did get footed, but only in the last shot of the whole thing. We used five birds and it was by Jess, the least likely one. It was her little “see you later”. What was it like acting with the goshawks? Every scene with the birds was improvised. There are a couple where I’m talking to the bird and it does a poo. So you have to respond to it, which I found incredibly freeing. In a way it’s much easier than improvising with an actor. The film is a study of grief and depression. Was it challenging? It was emotionally exhausting, but being close to that emotion makes you feel very alive. I think that can be very true of real grief. It can make you live a little bit larger, a bit louder, in response to it. I never saw it as a burden. I never saw it like, “Oh, it’s terrible that I have to feel all these feelings.” View Green Video on the source website Helen actually hardly cries. Did that feel more authentic? Yeah, and I found it an appealing thing to try to communicate: it’s an interior battle. We often presume that what’s happening on the outside is happening on the inside, and it’s just the opposite. So often these things are portrayed as histrionic, but most of us are trying to block those big emotions off a lot of the time. You were previously in First Man and All of Us Strangers, which are also about grief. Is it a theme that you are attracted to? I suppose I must be in a grief phase… It’s certainly not a theme that I’m hunting out. It is a thing that happens to actors. Film-makers see you in things and go, “Oh, OK, they might be good enough to also do this [similar role].” I’m honoured that people think I can touch upon grief. I just want to do things that reflect how people actually live. After Wolf Hall and The Crown, were you offered many roles as a posh English woman? Not massively. There aren’t that many queens and I did two of them! I think any more would be weird. You get offered what people think you’re capable of. The goal as you get older is for that to be broader, not narrower. But we’ll see. Maybe this is it for me for ever. I’m in Grief Alley, everyone, and I can’t get out! Your next film is out of the alley – an adaptation of Enid Blyton’s The Magic Faraway Tree. Is it nice to be in something your nine-year-old daughter can watch? Yeah! Really amazing. My daughter being able to watch it is exciting. I’ve never done that before. It’s just wonderful to be in something joyful, with a heart-warming message. How would you describe The Crown’s impact on your career? I’d been working for almost 10 years when I made it, but nobody knew who I was. It was like being in a blockbuster film. Afterwards, I got opportunities I’d never had before. It’s like the biggest promotion you can imagine. Is a role like that a double-edged sword in that it can define you? No, I don’t think it’s a double-edged sword. I doubt Olivia Newton-John hated being known for Grease – I bet she loved it! If I had just done The Crown and never worked again, that would be one thing. But I don’t feel any pressure to be anything for anyone else, really. I’m just doing my job. How do you feel about fame? It’s an abstract concept. I’ve been known for playing a particular role for about 10 years – sometimes it’s been surreal. It’s been alarming at times, it’s been illuminating. But on the whole, I’ve stayed the same. Protecting your humanity is the most important thing. You have to keep yourself sane. H Is for Hawk is in cinemas from Friday 23 January The latest issue of Radio Times is out now - subscribe here. H Is for Hawk is released in UK cinemas on Friday 23 January. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
The Oscar winner is now playing a dad for hire in Japan, but could he soon be back in another Mummy movie?
Add Rental Family to your watchlist Brendan Fraser is enjoying what his fans have called a “Brendanaissance”. The doe-eyed American-Canadian actor rose to fame in the early 2000s thanks to his part as a swashbuckling archaeologist in The Mummy movies, but he retreated from Hollywood in the 2010s owing to physical and personal problems. That changed in 2022, however, when he won the best actor Oscar for his portrayal of a morbidly obese English teacher in The Whale. In his latest role in the playful drama Rental Family, he portrays an American actor struggling to find work in Japan… Rental Family is based around a real Japanese service where people can hire actors to be their friends and family. What do you make of that concept? It’s existed since the 1980s. There are some 300 businesses that operate. It made me think, “Where does the make-believe and reality end?” That’s the point of the film. It’s awkward and a bit prickly, and it should be. In the end, what people want is a sense of authentic connection in an increasingly divided and synthetic world. Your character, Phillip, takes on a role that involves convincing a little girl that he’s her father. Do you think he did the right thing? It’s a tricky one! I have three sons and we’re lying to them constantly. So what truths do we give children anyway? But I can see that there would be damage done to a child’s trust in that scenario. The point of that relationship is how stigmatised being a single mother is in Japan. I have empathy with that girl’s mother because she’s trying to do the best she can. What would you use a rental family agency for? I would hire a sister. I’m the fourth of four sons and I’ve always wanted that kind of sister relationship where you give each other advice on life and tease each other. I love the fantasy of being the guy who sticks up for his sister and beats up the jock. “Hey, that’s my sister. Back off!” You speak Japanese in this film. Did you learn the language or was it more of a case of learning your lines? It was a Japanese film – the crew, actors, director, writer, everything – and I had language tutoring. But I’m a mediocre student. I forgot a lot of it until I got to Japan! Luckily, I have some talent for mimicry, but that’s not good enough to get by. I would have liked to have done more in Japanese. A lot of it got cut out. You spent a few years away from the limelight before your Oscar win for The Whale. How did that period change your perspective? There always was a light. I was still there. It was just my turn to step into the shadows for a bit. Maybe that was pleasant or unpleasant, but it was important to have gone through that. Now I feel like I have less to prove, but I’m never going to stop trying to evolve. How did it feel to win the Oscar after all those years away? It gave me a great deal of esteem to be recognised by my peers. I’m not going to give an Oscar-calibre performance every time I step onto a film set – and I don’t think that’s the reason to make movies anyway. But what it did do is give me a sense of accomplishment and an impetus to feel worthy of it. It felt personally redemptive. Did that time away from Hollywood make you relate to the plight of struggling actor Phillip? I will let you in on something: I’m not like Phillip. He’s not a very good actor! I don’t even think he’s an actor to begin with. He’s the token white guy and that’s why he’s hired for the rental agency. I don’t think we’re going to see him doing Shakespeare in the Park any time soon. At one point in Rental Family Phillip does a ridiculous Japanese commercial dressed as a toothpaste superhero. Have you done any similar work abroad? The closest I came to that was a print ad for blue jeans back in the 90s. I never went to Japan but they took my picture, wearing their blue jeans. The cheque didn’t bounce so I was happy! At that time the promise was that if it went overseas no one would see it and you could still get paid. You wouldn’t get saddled with this mentality of like, “This is how your career has turned out? You’re doing commercials? Boo! Hiss!” There have been reports that The Mummy 4 is happening. Is that true? My lips are sealed! I’m hopeful to have good news soon because I know how popular the films were. People say “I grew up watching that movie and now I’ve got kids…” Let’s all keep our fingers crossed and light a candle. OK, but how do you feel about the idea of reprising that role, theoretically of course? Would I like to? Absolutely. I’ve always said I like the idea and I always will. It’s just… Well, it’s not up to me to pull that trigger! Rental Family is in UK cinemas from Friday 16 January
Brendan Fraser reveals impact of his years away from the spotlight: "There always was a light"
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Brendan Fraser is enjoying what his fans have called a “Brendanaissance”. The doe-eyed American-Canadian actor rose to fame in the early 2000s thanks to his part as a swashbuckling archaeologist in The Mummy movies, but he retreated from Hollywood in the 2010s owing to physical and personal problems. That changed in 2022, however, when he won the best actor Oscar for his portrayal of a morbidly obese English teacher in The Whale. In his latest role in the playful drama Rental Family, he portrays an American actor struggling to find work in Japan… Rental Family is based around a real Japanese service where people can hire actors to be their friends and family. What do you make of that concept? It’s existed since the 1980s. There are some 300 businesses that operate. It made me think, “Where does the make-believe and reality end?” That’s the point of the film. It’s awkward and a bit prickly, and it should be. In the end, what people want is a sense of authentic connection in an increasingly divided and synthetic world. View Green Video on the source website Your character, Phillip, takes on a role that involves convincing a little girl that he’s her father. Do you think he did the right thing? It’s a tricky one! I have three sons and we’re lying to them constantly. So what truths do we give children anyway? But I can see that there would be damage done to a child’s trust in that scenario. The point of that relationship is how stigmatised being a single mother is in Japan. I have empathy with that girl’s mother because she’s trying to do the best she can. What would you use a rental family agency for? I would hire a sister. I’m the fourth of four sons and I’ve always wanted that kind of sister relationship where you give each other advice on life and tease each other. I love the fantasy of being the guy who sticks up for his sister and beats up the jock. “Hey, that’s my sister. Back off!” You speak Japanese in this film. Did you learn the language or was it more of a case of learning your lines? It was a Japanese film – the crew, actors, director, writer, everything – and I had language tutoring. But I’m a mediocre student. I forgot a lot of it until I got to Japan! Luckily, I have some talent for mimicry, but that’s not good enough to get by. I would have liked to have done more in Japanese. A lot of it got cut out. You spent a few years away from the limelight before your Oscar win for The Whale. How did that period change your perspective? There always was a light. I was still there. It was just my turn to step into the shadows for a bit. Maybe that was pleasant or unpleasant, but it was important to have gone through that. Now I feel like I have less to prove, but I’m never going to stop trying to evolve. How did it feel to win the Oscar after all those years away? It gave me a great deal of esteem to be recognised by my peers. I’m not going to give an Oscar-calibre performance every time I step onto a film set – and I don’t think that’s the reason to make movies anyway. But what it did do is give me a sense of accomplishment and an impetus to feel worthy of it. It felt personally redemptive. Did that time away from Hollywood make you relate to the plight of struggling actor Phillip? I will let you in on something: I’m not like Phillip. He’s not a very good actor! I don’t even think he’s an actor to begin with. He’s the token white guy and that’s why he’s hired for the rental agency. I don’t think we’re going to see him doing Shakespeare in the Park any time soon. At one point in Rental Family Phillip does a ridiculous Japanese commercial dressed as a toothpaste superhero. Have you done any similar work abroad? The closest I came to that was a print ad for blue jeans back in the 90s. I never went to Japan but they took my picture, wearing their blue jeans. The cheque didn’t bounce so I was happy! At that time the promise was that if it went overseas no one would see it and you could still get paid. You wouldn’t get saddled with this mentality of like, “This is how your career has turned out? You’re doing commercials? Boo! Hiss!” There have been reports that The Mummy 4 is happening. Is that true? My lips are sealed! I’m hopeful to have good news soon because I know how popular the films were. People say “I grew up watching that movie and now I’ve got kids…” Let’s all keep our fingers crossed and light a candle. OK, but how do you feel about the idea of reprising that role, theoretically of course? Would I like to? Absolutely. I’ve always said I like the idea and I always will. It’s just... Well, it’s not up to me to pull that trigger! The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Rental Family arrives in UK cinemas on Friday 15 January. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
From Trek fan to Trek star, the acclaimed actor of indie projects is living the dream as an alien pirate
Add Star Trek: Starfleet Academy to your watchlist Paul Giamatti is the patron saint of passive-aggressive sad men — from 2004 breakout film Sideways, where he played a depressed failed novelist, to 2023 festive hit The Holdovers, which won him a Golden Globe for his role as a cantankerous professor. But his next part couldn’t be more different. Now, the 58-year-old Oscar nominee plays the snarling half-Klingon space pirate Nas Braka, the villain of new Star Trek show Starfleet Academy. A surprising departure, perhaps? You’re a respected indie film darling — how did you come to beam aboard Starfleet Academy? I have made my interest in Star Trek known over the years. I probably said stuff while promoting The Holdovers about how all I’ve ever wanted to do is play a Klingon! I didn’t think it would lead to anything. But somebody caught wind of it and brought me a script and they had a couple of parts to offer. I said, “Oh, the bad guy looks interesting.” As you’re such a Trek fan, how big an ambition was it for you to be in the series? It was a fantasy. I never thought it was ever going to happen. I have been watching Star Trek since I was about seven years old. My father was a fan in the late 60s, and we watched together. I do keep pinching myself that I got to do this. Your character, Nas Braka, is a deranged half-Klingon space pirate. What drew you to him? Just the fact that he was a villain! A lot of the Star Trek parts that were attractive to me growing up were bad guys. He’s a low-life. He’s playing the clown but he’s not a fancy, high-end criminal. He’s drunk most of the time. I’m surprised you didn’t choose a captain role. Surely you want to wear the uniform? No! That’s like when I did Tim Burton’s Planet of the Apes movie. They said they had an ape part and my agent goes, “Oh, but surely you should play a human so people can see your face?” I’m like, “Are you crazy? Who wants to be a human in Planet of the Apes?!” I’m like that about Star Trek. I wanna be an alien! I wanna wear make-up! I want to have something fun and crazy going on! You’re best known for quieter, more actorly roles. Is Nas Braka a chance to cut loose? My roles have gotten quieter and quieter. I acted on stage for many years before I got film work. I tended to get cast in much more flamboyant roles and I missed doing that. So I was very happy to be able to play a big, performative guy. For good or ill, they didn’t put a cap on me. A lot of actors would look down on playing a maniacal alien in Star Trek. Are you less snobby about “high” or “low” culture? I’m associated more with these smaller dramatic-comedy things, but I started out doing studio comedies and action movies. So I don’t see highbrow or lowbrow divisions. I mean, there’s smarts to Star Trek. A lot of the actors on those shows were theatre actors. It is Shakespearean! It doesn’t feel like a downward thing for me. Why do you think your love of Star Trek has endured? From the second I saw it I loved Spock. There’s something about that character being at odds with himself which is so great. Most of all it was a really positive adventure. My father was a medievalist so I think he saw it as a Knights of the Round Table thing. And Kirk was such an inspiring, manly figure as a kid. You’re just like, “Wow! I’d follow that guy anywhere!” Many Star Trek fans have a favourite captain. Is Kirk yours? Actually my favourite captain is Benjamin Sisko from [acclaimed 1993–9 series] Deep Space Nine, which is my favourite iteration of the show. I don’t know if that’s controversial! It’s the one that establishes a different kind of tone for Star Trek and Sisko is such a great, complicated character. You’ve said you haven’t had to audition for a role since Sideways. Could that in theory lead to you taking a part you’re not right for? It sure can. It can be harrowing. I remember doing a movie and I showed up on the first day of shooting and the guy who hired me was like, “What the hell are you doing?” And I’m like, “Well, this is what I’m doing, man! You guys hired me!” I am happy not to have to audition any more, but I do oddly miss it. It gives you this chance to orientate yourself and know what footing you’re on. And finally, I’ve heard your favourite thing to do while in London is take in a murder trial at the Old Bailey. Why is that? I like true crime! I have a taste for that Victorian murder thing that you guys are so good at. And I find the British court system more interesting than the American one. The judges and barristers tend to be more eloquent; there’s more cut and thrust. The last time I was in London I saw a headline-y one about a couple who had set their nanny on fire. Terrible! I went enough times to that one that the guards on the door began to know me. Star Trek: Starfleet Academy is streaming on Paramount+ from Thur 15 January
Paul Giamatti reveals how Star Trek role as villainous Nus Braka is a dream come true: "It is Shakespearean!"
From Trek fan to Trek star, the acclaimed actor of indie projects is living the dream as an alien pirate.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Paul Giamatti is the patron saint of passive-aggressive sad men — from 2004 breakout film Sideways, where he played a depressed failed novelist, to 2023 festive hit The Holdovers, which won him a Golden Globe for his role as a cantankerous professor. But his next part couldn’t be more different. Now, the 58-year-old Oscar nominee plays the snarling half-Klingon space pirate Nus Braka, the villain of new Star Trek show Starfleet Academy. A surprising departure, perhaps? You’re a respected indie film darling — how did you come to beam aboard Starfleet Academy? I have made my interest in Star Trek known over the years. I probably said stuff while promoting The Holdovers about how all I’ve ever wanted to do is play a Klingon! I didn’t think it would lead to anything. But somebody caught wind of it and brought me a script and they had a couple of parts to offer. I said, “Oh, the bad guy looks interesting.” As you’re such a Trek fan, how big an ambition was it for you to be in the series? It was a fantasy. I never thought it was ever going to happen. I have been watching Star Trek since I was about seven years old. My father was a fan in the late 60s, and we watched together. I do keep pinching myself that I got to do this. View oEmbed on the source website Your character, Nus Braka, is a deranged half-Klingon space pirate. What drew you to him? Just the fact that he was a villain! A lot of the Star Trek parts that were attractive to me growing up were bad guys. He’s a low-life. He’s playing the clown but he’s not a fancy, high-end criminal. He’s drunk most of the time. I’m surprised you didn’t choose a captain role. Surely you want to wear the uniform? No! That’s like when I did Tim Burton’s Planet of the Apes movie. They said they had an ape part and my agent goes, “Oh, but surely you should play a human so people can see your face?” I’m like, “Are you crazy? Who wants to be a human in Planet of the Apes?!” I’m like that about Star Trek. I wanna be an alien! I wanna wear make-up! I want to have something fun and crazy going on! You’re best known for quieter, more actorly roles. Is Nus Braka a chance to cut loose? My roles have gotten quieter and quieter. I acted on stage for many years before I got film work. I tended to get cast in much more flamboyant roles and I missed doing that. So I was very happy to be able to play a big, performative guy. For good or ill, they didn’t put a cap on me. A lot of actors would look down on playing a maniacal alien in Star Trek. Are you less snobby about “high” or “low” culture? I’m associated more with these smaller dramatic-comedy things, but I started out doing studio comedies and action movies. So I don’t see highbrow or lowbrow divisions. I mean, there’s smarts to Star Trek. A lot of the actors on those shows were theatre actors. It is Shakespearean! It doesn’t feel like a downward thing for me. Why do you think your love of Star Trek has endured? From the second I saw it I loved Spock. There’s something about that character being at odds with himself which is so great. Most of all it was a really positive adventure. My father was a medievalist so I think he saw it as a Knights of the Round Table thing. And Kirk was such an inspiring, manly figure as a kid. You’re just like, “Wow! I’d follow that guy anywhere!” Many Star Trek fans have a favourite captain. Is Kirk yours? Actually my favourite captain is Benjamin Sisko from [acclaimed 1993–9 series] Deep Space Nine, which is my favourite iteration of the show. I don’t know if that’s controversial! It’s the one that establishes a different kind of tone for Star Trek and Sisko is such a great, complicated character. You’ve said you haven’t had to audition for a role since Sideways. Could that in theory lead to you taking a part you’re not right for? It sure can. It can be harrowing. I remember doing a movie and I showed up on the first day of shooting and the guy who hired me was like, “What the hell are you doing?” And I’m like, “Well, this is what I’m doing, man! You guys hired me!” I am happy not to have to audition any more, but I do oddly miss it. It gives you this chance to orientate yourself and know what footing you’re on. And finally, I’ve heard your favourite thing to do while in London is take in a murder trial at the Old Bailey. Why is that? I like true crime! I have a taste for that Victorian murder thing that you guys are so good at. And I find the British court system more interesting than the American one. The judges and barristers tend to be more eloquent; there’s more cut and thrust. The last time I was in London I saw a headline-y one about a couple who had set their nanny on fire. Terrible! I went enough times to that one that the guards on the door began to know me. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Star Trek: Starfleet Academy begins on Thursday 15th January 2026 on Paramount+. Check out more of our Sci-fi coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
The actor reprises his role as human-turned Na'vi Jake Sully
Add Avatar: Fire and Ash to your watchlist The first Avatar movie was released 16 years ago. How would you describe its impact on your life? When we started, I was 31 – I’m 49 now. Avatar made my whole world do a 180. You can’t prepare for the Hollywood industry, you’ve just got to survive the turbulence. And then you learn as you’re doing it. Unfortunately, you have to do it under a spotlight. James Cameron has a reputation for being demanding. What’s he like to work with? Jim is the best acting director I’ve ever met! He’s so detailed. It really helps. His movies are acknowledged for their spectacle, but these movies don’t work unless they have a soul and that’s what you get from the performances. I’m humbled to have Jim as my friend and mentor. When I go to other jobs, that bar is very high once you’ve worked with Jim. Before the release of The Way of Water there were doubts whether audiences still had the appetite for Avatar. Were you worried? I don’t doubt my boss, man! People thought Aliens wouldn’t match Alien. People thought Terminator 2: Judgment Day wouldn’t be as good as The Terminator. The thing about Jim is he always gives you the unexpected. Jake’s eldest son Neteyam died at the end of The Way of Water. How does that grief affect him in Fire and Ash? They’re still in a state of shock over what happened. The movie explores the struggle to hold together the things that you love. Jake goes back to his touchstone, which is soldiering. He doesn’t want violence to come, but soldiering is what he knows, and that helps him navigate these harsh emotions. You’re the father of three boys. Was it a challenge to tap into every parent’s worst nightmare? The great thing was that we filmed the two sequels simultaneously. So Neteyam’s death came early on and I knew we could use the emotion of that scene and carry it into Fire and Ash. You can’t “play” grief, otherwise the movie becomes bogged in this mire of pain and sadness. It’s more about how you resurrect out of that. Jake’s nemesis in Fire and Ash is Oona Chaplin’s ferocious Varang. What’s their dynamic? I feel like I didn’t really meet Oona until yesterday – I had only met Varang! Oona has her method and she stays in that energy. She’s the darkness, so she didn’t really want to interact with any of us; she wanted to keep that friction. And I respected that. I think that builds the antagonism between them. You had to learn how to free-dive for The Way of Water. Was there anything as challenging as that on Fire and Ash? I joked with Jim yesterday: I said, “In the first movie, we went to the depths of the ocean… in this one we’re going to the depths of emotion”. I don’t mind holding my breath and going under water, but when you have to dig deep like we do in this one, it’s a lot more challenging.
The actor joins the cast as the fearsome Varang, leader of the Ash clan of Na'vi
Add Avatar: Fire and Ash to your watchlist Tell us about Varang, the leader of the antagonistic Ash people, who you play in Fire and Ash. She is spicy! A magnificent beast of a lady. She is the leader of the Ash clan, who are very different to the other Na’vi clans. They live in a place where there was a huge natural disaster so their connection to [Pandora’s spiritual nature entity] Eywa was severed. They have this huge trauma and pain and the smart, brilliant Varang has figured out a way to harness that despair. Sam Worthington mentioned that you went “Method” for the role of Varang. What did you do to get into character? I plastered very traumatic images all over my trailer, which I don’t think I’ll do again! Also, before scenes I would do these chants and stomps to get myself into Varang’s headspace. Looking back on it now I am a little bit embarrassed… but at the time it seemed the right thing to do. Going from being the kind of person who is like, “Oh no, don’t worry about me!” to being like, “Do exactly as I say or you shall die!” – it was a big leap! What was your audition for Varang like? At the time, I had built myself a treehouse and I was determined to live in there and start a permaculture project [for sustainable land use]. And then there was this opportunity to audition for Avatar and I was like, “That’s a good reason to come out of my treehouse!” James Cameron is a hero for me. But then I met him and he’s so playful and curious. We ended up stopping the audition and talking about agriculture and biodynamics. It sounds like you were at an interesting point in your life at that time? A huge crossroads. I was in a place of really feeling the injustices of the world. I spent a lot of time in Calais building shacks in the Jungle [the refugee camp in France]. And I was very conflicted, because then I’d be going on to set and wearing a £9,000 dress. There was a lot of inner turmoil in that. The performance-capture process used in Fire and Ash meant you had to act in an empty soundstage while wearing a facial rig and no real costume. How did you find that? It’s actually the most freeing acting experience I’ve ever had! It’s like the closest thing to being back in the playground. Because you really are just creating. You have to commit to the moment 100 per cent of the time to create this imaginary realm. Your grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, was instrumental in the development of silent film. Did it feel fitting for you to be doing something as cutting-edge as performance capture? It feels like a horseshoe. Silent films for my grandpa were cutting-edge technology. I thought a lot about him on the set and what he would think about all of this. I think if he was around, he would be doing cutting-edge stuff like this, too. It was a really beautiful parallel, a cool rhyme. How is it as an actor to have that kind of showbiz history in your family — is it a double-edged sword? I spent a lot of my career trying to feel like I “deserved” the opportunities that I was getting. And it’s definitely still present in my psychology! The things that my grandfather did were so incredible. I respect and admire him so much. And nothing that I do is anywhere near what he did. And that’s OK with me now. I’m trying not to be so self-conscious and self-deprecating all the time. Instead of trying so hard to “deserve” the doors that open for me, I have started focusing on being grateful for them.
As the Avatar saga’s latest chapter hits cinemas, can director James Cameron replicate the mind-blowing success of its predecessors? No pressure…
Add Avatar: Fire and Ash to your watchlist James Cameron operates at the kind of scale usually reserved for plagues and empires. For instance, for his latest “very expensive” Avatar sequel, Fire and Ash, to be considered successful, “I don’t have to affect every single person on the planet,” he says, modestly. “I only need about 3 per cent.” If you’re wondering, that equates to about 240 million people: over three times the population of the UK. And if they all buy a ticket for $10 each, then that translates to a gross of $2.4 billion: placing it in the top three highest-grossing films of all time. “It is the stupidest business model in the world,” he laughs. “We’ve made a movie that fails if it’s not in the top ten in history. That’s ludicrous, right?” Ludicrous for most directors, perhaps. But not James Cameron. This is the man who directed the 1997 phenomenon Titanic, a blockbuster so over budget that at one point it looked as though it would sink his career. Instead, it became the highest-grossing film of all time. And then there’s 2009’s Avatar. Back then, it was a baffling prospect: a surreal 3D science-fiction extravaganza made almost entirely on a virtual soundstage, about a distant planet of blue aliens called the Na’vi. It overtook Titanic to became the highest-grossing film of all time. And yet, even by Cameron’s standards, the 71-year-old director admits that he has played a “dangerous game” with his two Avatar sequels, which were filmed back to back in New Zealand. “That was a big bet,” he says. “Because we had to assume that the second film would be successful enough to warrant the finishing of the third.” The first sequel, The Way of Water, was released in 2022 amidst scepticism as to whether audiences still cared about Avatar. It grossed $2.3 billion: placing it in the top three highest-grossing films of all time. More than enough to justify this third instalment, Fire and Ash. Avatar’s status as a worldwide phenomenon is often attributed to its spectacle. The CGI alien world of Pandora, the home planet of the Na’vi, is so astonishingly vivid that in 2010, CNN reported that some fans had developed “post-Avatar depression syndrome”, a condition caused by how unsatisfying the real world felt in comparison. While the Na’vi, in the words of Cameron, “might be ten feet tall, blue and have cat ears and tails, but they’re almost more expressive than we are.” A marvel achieved through groundbreaking performance capture technology: the kind that allows the 76-year-old Sigourney Weaver to play a 14-year-old alien girl. But Cameron, speaking to RT from his office in New Zealand, his voice a soft Canadian drawl, prefers to attribute Avatar’s appeal to the universal theme of family. The director has been married five times – most recently to former actor Suzy Amis in 2000 – and has five children. Notably, that’s the same number of kids as the series’ lead character, Jake Sully (played by Aussie actor Sam Worthington). A paraplegic human marine who had his consciousness transferred to a synthetic Na’vi body (known as an Avatar) after falling in love with Na’vi warrior Neytiri (Zoe Saldaña), Jake has now settled down and is primarily concerned with protecting his family. “These films have to sit at the top of the pyramid in terms of revenues,” says Cameron. “So I was like, ‘All right, how can I cast as wide an emotional net as possible?’ I’m a father. Every adult has parents. Everyone is part of a family. This is going to be a family story. But it’s not going to be a family story like a Disney story where the dog dies. It’s going to be a family that gets challenged, that gets ripped apart, that goes to dark places.” Hence – spoiler alert – the death of Jake and Neytiri’s first-born son Neteyam at the end of The Way of Water, where the teenager is killed during a battle with the antagonistic colonial forces of humanity. “Grief is often used in commercial film-making as a motivator for people to lay waste to the bad guys,” says Cameron, explaining how the loss continues to haunt the characters during Fire and Ash. “But there never seems to be a real heartfelt consequence to it, the way there is in the real world.” Grief is a theme that is especially pronounced for Cameron. Last year the director lost his close friend Jon Landau, his dedicated producing partner of more than 30 years, during the production of Fire and Ash. Landau had worked on all the Avatar films – in fact, RT interviewed him in 2022 for the last movie. “We’ve all had to process our true grief while making a movie about loss,” says Cameron. “In a funny way, it’s been cathartic.” In his younger days, like when Cameron and Landau were steering Titanic, the director had a reputation for being a cranky perfectionist. But today he cuts a more reflective figure. “I’ve had a lot of loss in my own personal life in the last ten years,” he says. “Friends, my brother, my parents. You realise that it’s an inescapable part of life, just like your own mortality. It’s never easy and it never goes away.” Just like Cameron, Jake and Neytiri find that life does not stop for grief. A few weeks after the death of Neteyam, their family is tested by the emergence of an aggressive Na’vi tribe called the Ash, led by Oona Chaplin’s vengeful Varang. The volcano-dwelling Ash people act as a counterpoint to Jake’s adopted Metkayina clan (a nautical tribe led by matriarch Ronal, played by Kate Winslet). They are also intended to explore, as Cameron explains, whether, “humanity has contaminated the purity of the Na’vi culture.” A complex question with profound consequences for Neytiri, “who becomes what you could only refer to as racist,” says Cameron. “I want to challenge the audience.” Fire and Ash is technically the midpoint in an ambitious five-part film series. But Cameron has also built in a fail-safe: he has designed the series so that its first three films feel like a complete trilogy. “If it all ends with this film that’s OK,” he says. “Because it’s not a cliffhanger ending. It all resolves in a very satisfying way.” If they do happen, he says, the fourth and fifth Avatar films will involve a six-year time jump and would feature Neytiri making her way to a dystopian Earth. The scripts are written (“they’re pretty good!”), and a portion of Avatar 4 has been filmed, but for now their fate depends on the box-office performance of Fire and Ash. “I would love to make those movies,” says Cameron, sounding uncharacteristically cautious. “But I’m a bit more pessimistic than I normally would have been.” His fear is that the media landscape has changed. “Cinema has become a few selected films that people believe will be an experience that’s worth leaving their homes for,” he says. “Post-Covid and post-streaming, it’s a depressed industry right now. And it doesn’t seem to be bouncing back.” For Cameron, Fire and Ash represents a crossroads. Will he be spending his 70s making two more Avatar movies? Or will he concentrate instead on projects such as The Last Train to Hiroshima, his mooted adaptation of Charles R Pellegrino’s book about a Japanese man who survived both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings? “We’ll look at it when the dust settles,” says Cameron. “I have no doubts about Fire and Ash as a film. We’ve done test screenings. People cry. I’ve achieved my goals, artistically. If this one falls on its ass, it’s going to be because of forces beyond my control.” The stakes are big, the odds are long; but if there’s one inviolable rule of modern Hollywood, it’s that you don’t bet against James Cameron. Avatar: Fire and Ash is in cinemas from 19 December
Avatar: Fire and Ash director James Cameron shares how this film about loss helped him process his "true grief"
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. James Cameron operates at the kind of scale usually reserved for plagues and empires. For instance, for his latest “very expensive” Avatar sequel, Fire and Ash, to be considered successful, “I don’t have to affect every single person on the planet,” he says, modestly. “I only need about 3 per cent.” If you’re wondering, that equates to about 240 million people: over three times the population of the UK. And if they all buy a ticket for $10 each, then that translates to a gross of $2.4 billion: placing it in the top three highest-grossing films of all time. “It is the stupidest business model in the world,” he laughs. “We’ve made a movie that fails if it’s not in the top ten in history. That’s ludicrous, right?” Ludicrous for most directors, perhaps. But not James Cameron. This is the man who directed the 1997 phenomenon Titanic, a blockbuster so over budget that at one point it looked as though it would sink his career. Instead, it became the highest-grossing film of all time. And then there’s 2009’s Avatar. Back then, it was a baffling prospect: a surreal 3D science-fiction extravaganza made almost entirely on a virtual soundstage, about a distant planet of blue aliens called the Na’vi. It overtook Titanic to became the highest-grossing film of all time. And yet, even by Cameron’s standards, the 71-year-old director admits that he has played a “dangerous game” with his two Avatar sequels, which were filmed back to back in New Zealand. “That was a big bet,” he says. “Because we had to assume that the second film would be successful enough to warrant the finishing of the third.” The first sequel, The Way of Water, was released in 2022 amidst scepticism as to whether audiences still cared about Avatar. It grossed $2.3 billion: placing it in the top three highest-grossing films of all time. More than enough to justify this third instalment, Fire and Ash. Avatar’s status as a worldwide phenomenon is often attributed to its spectacle. The CGI alien world of Pandora, the home planet of the Na’vi, is so astonishingly vivid that in 2010, CNN reported that some fans had developed “post-Avatar depression syndrome”, a condition caused by how unsatisfying the real world felt in comparison. While the Na’vi, in the words of Cameron, “might be ten feet tall, blue and have cat ears and tails, but they’re almost more expressive than we are.” A marvel achieved through groundbreaking performance capture technology: the kind that allows the 76-year-old Sigourney Weaver to play a 14-year-old alien girl. But Cameron, speaking to RT from his office in New Zealand, his voice a soft Canadian drawl, prefers to attribute Avatar’s appeal to the universal theme of family. The director has been married five times – most recently to former actor Suzy Amis in 2000 – and has five children. Notably, that’s the same number of kids as the series’ lead character, Jake Sully (played by Aussie actor Sam Worthington). A paraplegic human marine who had his consciousness transferred to a synthetic Na’vi body (known as an Avatar) after falling in love with Na’vi warrior Neytiri (Zoe Saldaña), Jake has now settled down and is primarily concerned with protecting his family. “These films have to sit at the top of the pyramid in terms of revenues,” says Cameron. “So I was like, ‘All right, how can I cast as wide an emotional net as possible?’ I’m a father. Every adult has parents. Everyone is part of a family. This is going to be a family story. But it’s not going to be a family story like a Disney story where the dog dies. It’s going to be a family that gets challenged, that gets ripped apart, that goes to dark places.” Hence – spoiler alert – the death of Jake and Neytiri’s first-born son Neteyam at the end of The Way of Water, where the teenager is killed during a battle with the antagonistic colonial forces of humanity. View oEmbed on the source website “Grief is often used in commercial film-making as a motivator for people to lay waste to the bad guys,” says Cameron, explaining how the loss continues to haunt the characters during Fire and Ash. “But there never seems to be a real heartfelt consequence to it, the way there is in the real world.” Grief is a theme that is especially pronounced for Cameron. Last year the director lost his close friend Jon Landau, his dedicated producing partner of more than 30 years, during the production of Fire and Ash. Landau had worked on all the Avatar films – in fact, RT interviewed him in 2022 for the last movie. “We’ve all had to process our true grief while making a movie about loss,” says Cameron. “In a funny way, it’s been cathartic.” In his younger days, like when Cameron and Landau were steering Titanic, the director had a reputation for being a cranky perfectionist. But today he cuts a more reflective figure. “I’ve had a lot of loss in my own personal life in the last ten years,” he says. “Friends, my brother, my parents. You realise that it’s an inescapable part of life, just like your own mortality. It’s never easy and it never goes away.” Just like Cameron, Jake and Neytiri find that life does not stop for grief. A few weeks after the death of Neteyam, their family is tested by the emergence of an aggressive Na’vi tribe called the Ash, led by Oona Chaplin’s vengeful Varang. The volcano-dwelling Ash people act as a counterpoint to Jake’s adopted Metkayina clan (a nautical tribe led by matriarch Ronal, played by Kate Winslet). They are also intended to explore, as Cameron explains, whether, “humanity has contaminated the purity of the Na’vi culture.” A complex question with profound consequences for Neytiri, “who becomes what you could only refer to as racist,” says Cameron. “I want to challenge the audience.” Fire and Ash is technically the midpoint in an ambitious five-part film series. But Cameron has also built in a fail-safe: he has designed the series so that its first three films feel like a complete trilogy. “If it all ends with this film that’s OK,” he says. “Because it’s not a cliffhanger ending. It all resolves in a very satisfying way.” If they do happen, he says, the fourth and fifth Avatar films will involve a six-year time jump and would feature Neytiri making her way to a dystopian Earth. The scripts are written (“they’re pretty good!”), and a portion of Avatar 4 has been filmed, but for now their fate depends on the box-office performance of Fire and Ash. “I would love to make those movies,” says Cameron, sounding uncharacteristically cautious. “But I’m a bit more pessimistic than I normally would have been.” His fear is that the media landscape has changed. “Cinema has become a few selected films that people believe will be an experience that’s worth leaving their homes for,” he says. “Post-Covid and post-streaming, it’s a depressed industry right now. And it doesn’t seem to be bouncing back.” For Cameron, Fire and Ash represents a crossroads. Will he be spending his 70s making two more Avatar movies? Or will he concentrate instead on projects such as The Last Train to Hiroshima, his mooted adaptation of Charles R Pellegrino’s book about a Japanese man who survived both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings? “We’ll look at it when the dust settles,” says Cameron. “I have no doubts about Fire and Ash as a film. We’ve done test screenings. People cry. I’ve achieved my goals, artistically. If this one falls on its ass, it’s going to be because of forces beyond my control.” The stakes are big, the odds are long; but if there’s one inviolable rule of modern Hollywood, it’s that you don’t bet against James Cameron. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Avatar: Fire and Ash is set for release on Friday 19th December 2025. Check out more of our Movies coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Game of Thrones star reveals her Avatar: Fire and Ash villain is a "magnificent beast of a lady"
Oona Chaplin tells us how she brought Varang to life with intense Method prep, ritual stomps, and unflinching authority.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Tell us about Varang, the leader of the antagonistic Ash people, who you play in Fire and Ash. She is spicy! A magnificent beast of a lady. She is the leader of the Ash clan, who are very different to the other Na’vi clans. They live in a place where there was a huge natural disaster so their connection to [Pandora’s spiritual nature entity] Eywa was severed. They have this huge trauma and pain and the smart, brilliant Varang has figured out a way to harness that despair. Sam Worthington mentioned that you went “Method” for the role of Varang. What did you do to get into character? I plastered very traumatic images all over my trailer, which I don’t think I’ll do again! Also, before scenes I would do these chants and stomps to get myself into Varang’s headspace. Looking back on it now I am a little bit embarrassed… but at the time it seemed the right thing to do. Going from being the kind of person who is like, “Oh no, don’t worry about me!” to being like, “Do exactly as I say or you shall die!” – it was a big leap! What was your audition for Varang like? At the time, I had built myself a treehouse and I was determined to live in there and start a permaculture project [for sustainable land use]. And then there was this opportunity to audition for Avatar and I was like, “That’s a good reason to come out of my treehouse!” James Cameron is a hero for me. But then I met him and he’s so playful and curious. We ended up stopping the audition and talking about agriculture and biodynamics. It sounds like you were at an interesting point in your life at that time? A huge crossroads. I was in a place of really feeling the injustices of the world. I spent a lot of time in Calais building shacks in the Jungle [the refugee camp in France]. And I was very conflicted, because then I’d be going on to set and wearing a £9,000 dress. There was a lot of inner turmoil in that. The performance-capture process used in Fire and Ash meant you had to act in an empty soundstage while wearing a facial rig and no real costume. How did you find that? It’s actually the most freeing acting experience I’ve ever had! It’s like the closest thing to being back in the playground. Because you really are just creating. You have to commit to the moment 100 per cent of the time to create this imaginary realm. Your grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, was instrumental in the development of silent film. Did it feel fitting for you to be doing something as cutting-edge as performance capture? It feels like a horseshoe. Silent films for my grandpa were cutting-edge technology. I thought a lot about him on the set and what he would think about all of this. I think if he was around, he would be doing cutting-edge stuff like this, too. It was a really beautiful parallel, a cool rhyme. How is it as an actor to have that kind of showbiz history in your family – is it a double-edged sword? I spent a lot of my career trying to feel like I “deserved” the opportunities that I was getting. And it’s definitely still present in my psychology! The things that my grandfather did were so incredible. I respect and admire him so much. And nothing that I do is anywhere near what he did. And that’s OK with me now. I’m trying not to be so self-conscious and self-deprecating all the time. Instead of trying so hard to “deserve” the doors that open for me, I have started focusing on being grateful for them. This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Avatar: Fire and Ash is set for release on Friday 19th December 2025. Check out more of our Movies coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Avatar star Sam Worthington reveals why he didn't interact with one key cast member during sequel filming
From the first Avatar to Fire and Ash, Sam Worthington talks 16 years of filmmaking, fatherhood, and working with Jim Cameron.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. The first Avatar movie was released 16 years ago. How would you describe its impact on your life? When we started, I was 31 – I’m 49 now. Avatar made my whole world do a 180. You can’t prepare for the Hollywood industry, you’ve just got to survive the turbulence. And then you learn as you’re doing it. Unfortunately, you have to do it under a spotlight. James Cameron has a reputation for being demanding. What’s he like to work with? Jim is the best acting director I’ve ever met! He’s so detailed. It really helps. His movies are acknowledged for their spectacle, but these movies don’t work unless they have a soul and that’s what you get from the performances. I’m humbled to have Jim as my friend and mentor. When I go to other jobs, that bar is very high once you’ve worked with Jim. Before the release of The Way of Water there were doubts whether audiences still had the appetite for Avatar. Were you worried? I don’t doubt my boss, man! People thought Aliens wouldn’t match Alien. People thought Terminator 2: Judgment Day wouldn’t be as good as The Terminator. The thing about Jim is he always gives you the unexpected. Jake’s eldest son Neteyam died at the end of The Way of Water. How does that grief affect him in Fire and Ash? They’re still in a state of shock over what happened. The movie explores the struggle to hold together the things that you love. Jake goes back to his touchstone, which is soldiering. He doesn’t want violence to come, but soldiering is what he knows, and that helps him navigate these harsh emotions. You’re the father of three boys. Was it a challenge to tap into every parent’s worst nightmare? The great thing was that we filmed the two sequels simultaneously. So Neteyam’s death came early on and I knew we could use the emotion of that scene and carry it into Fire and Ash. You can’t “play” grief, otherwise the movie becomes bogged in this mire of pain and sadness. It’s more about how you resurrect out of that. View oEmbed on the source website Jake’s nemesis in Fire and Ash is Oona Chaplin’s ferocious Varang. What’s their dynamic? I feel like I didn’t really meet Oona until yesterday – I had only met Varang! Oona has her method and she stays in that energy. She’s the darkness, so she didn’t really want to interact with any of us; she wanted to keep that friction. And I respected that. I think that builds the antagonism between them. You had to learn how to free-dive for The Way of Water. Was there anything as challenging as that on Fire and Ash? I joked with Jim yesterday: I said, “In the first movie, we went to the depths of the ocean… in this one we’re going to the depths of emotion”. I don’t mind holding my breath and going under water, but when you have to dig deep like we do in this one, it’s a lot more challenging. The latest issue of Radio Times is out on Thursday – subscribe here. Avatar: Fire and Ash is set for release on Friday 19th December 2025. Check out more of our Movies coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
He’s a major star on both sides of the pond and has won awards for writing and acting — so what’s next?
Add Mayor of Kingstown to your watchlist British writer, actor and director Lennie James has just turned 60 and splits his life between the UK and the USA. He wrote and starred in the dramas Save Me and Save Me Too, he was corrupt DCI Tony Gates in Line of Duty and in May this year he won a Bafta for his performance as Barry Walker in Mr Loverman. In the USA he was Morgan Jones in The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead, and in his latest role he is crime lord Frank Moses in Mayor of Kingstown, an American drama set in a community whose fortunes are entwined with those of the prisons that surround it. So what’s it like living the American dream? You have lived in America for a while now. What do you find are the cultural differences between the USA and the UK? We are two countries separated by a common language. There are similarities between Britain and America, but to almost every situation add race, add guns. Those two things define the cultural differences between our two countries. That, and size! Mayor of Kingstown is about private prisons. Was that a concept strange to wrap your head around as a Brit? It’s one that’s scary. Prisons can be big business. That means that they need prisoners. And in order to have prisoners, that affects the way that people are sentenced, and it affects who is being sentenced. Under this current administration, it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out who is going to be populating the prisons and feeding that particular industry. Have you felt the difference in the past few years since Donald Trump became president again? It’s noticeable, particularly if you’re a black or brown person, a member of the LGBTQ+ community or a woman. It’s noticeable how quickly and systematically the advances that have been made are being eradicated. It’s obvious what’s going on and how someone who looks like me would feel about it. In Mayor of Kingstown you play erudite gangster Frank Moses. What attracted you to the role? I’m now looking for work that challenges me, that maybe scares me and isn’t what people expect. And this character intrigued me. I wanted to make him genial and apparently unthreatening. It was a huge amount of fun to play that juxtaposition. You won a Bafta for Mr Loverman earlier this year. How have you found the reaction to that show? There’s something particular about how people have reacted when they stop me for Mr Loverman. There is a sense that people want to say more but can’t say more. On a number of occasions I’ve tried to speak further with them and they have said, “No, I just wanted to say thank you, shake your hand and go on my way.” That always knocks me for six. A million things are said in a three-sentence exchange. And then you part ways. Are there still more opportunities for black British actors in the United States than there are in the UK? I went to LA in 2005 and there were more options, but within the context that there were more options for everyone. I’m not denying that there are limitations here for black actors. But equal to it, I felt I was doing what lots of actors were doing from all over the world: French actors, Scandi actors, South-Asian actors. Everybody was there for the same reason – because there were more options. You were 10 when you mother died, which led to you and your brother growing up in care in south London. Is it becoming harder for someone from that kind of background to break into acting? This life wasn’t a dream of mine when I was a kid. I didn’t know it was something I could dream about. The opportunities that presented themselves are what made it possible. At the moment, it seems like those doors have been pushed further closed. And I think there should be a concerted effort to reopen them. We risk losing the working-class perspective. And I think that the idea that you don’t have to make an effort to preserve the voices of the working class is criminal. You wrote 2018 drama Save Me, which felt particularly evocative in its portrayal of council estate life. What do you think TV gets wrong when telling stories about the working class? I hate it when they patronise us, caricature us, over-sentimentalise us. They get the moral compass and belief system of working-class life wrong. It’s often a story about people who hate where they’re at, but more often than not, it’s people who want better for themselves but are making the best of where they are. That’s a big difference. Some stories feel like they’re on safari. They have no core. In the past, you mentored kids with similar backgrounds to you. Do you still do that? I’m not in the same location enough at the moment to do it properly. You have to commit to being consistent. I do mentor people within my industry, particularly younger black male actors. I teach them: “How do you argue your corner without scaring people?” without the bass in your voice scaring white people, basically! And on the other side of that, how to navigate success. Some of it has taken me longer to learn than it should have. Do you have any career ambitions unfulfilled? There are parts I want to play. There are things I’d like to do. I don’t want to jinx them! One thing I can say out loud is that I’d like to write and direct a film. There’s a story that I want to tell, as a director. I just have to write it. Writing is far harder than acting. I love rewriting! But the blank page? It’s a regret of mine that I have yet to get over my fear of it.
BAFTA winner Lennie James calls out issues of the current Trump era and why we need working class voices
He’s a major star on both sides of the pond and has won awards for writing and acting – so what’s next?
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. British writer, actor and director Lennie James has just turned 60 and splits his life between the UK and the USA. He wrote and starred in the dramas Save Me and Save Me Too, he was corrupt DCI Tony Gates in Line of Duty and in May this year he won a Bafta for his performance as Barry Walker in Mr Loverman. In the USA he was Morgan Jones in The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead, and in his latest role he is crime lord Frank Moses in Mayor of Kingstown, an American drama set in a community whose fortunes are entwined with those of the prisons that surround it. So what’s it like living the American dream? You have lived in America for a while now. What do you find are the cultural differences between the USA and the UK? We are two countries separated by a common language. There are similarities between Britain and America, but to almost every situation add race, add guns. Those two things define the cultural differences between our two countries. That, and size! Mayor of Kingstown is about private prisons. Was that a strange concept to wrap your head around as a Brit? It’s one that’s scary. Prisons can be big business. That means that they need prisoners. And in order to have prisoners, that affects the way that people are sentenced, and it affects who is being sentenced. Under this current administration, it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out who is going to be populating the prisons and feeding that particular industry. Have you felt the difference in the past few years since Donald Trump became president again? It’s noticeable, particularly if you’re a black or brown person, a member of the LGBTQ+ community or a woman. It’s noticeable how quickly and systematically the advances that have been made are being eradicated. It’s obvious what’s going on and how someone who looks like me would feel about it. In Mayor of Kingstown you play erudite gangster Frank Moses. What attracted you to the role? I’m now looking for work that challenges me, that maybe scares me and isn’t what people expect. And this character intrigued me. I wanted to make him genial and apparently unthreatening. It was a huge amount of fun to play that juxtaposition. You won a Bafta for Mr Loverman earlier this year. How have you found the reaction to that show? There’s something particular about how people have reacted when they stop me for Mr Loverman. There is a sense that people want to say more but can’t say more. On a number of occasions I’ve tried to speak further with them and they have said, “No, I just wanted to say thank you, shake your hand and go on my way.” That always knocks me for six. A million things are said in a three-sentence exchange. And then you part ways. Are there still more opportunities for black British actors in the United States than there are in the UK? I went to LA in 2005 and there were more options, but within the context that there were more options for everyone. I’m not denying that there are limitations here for black actors. But equal to it, I felt I was doing what lots of actors were doing from all over the world: French actors, Scandi actors, South-Asian actors. Everybody was there for the same reason – because there were more options. You were 10 when you mother died, which led to you and your brother growing up in care in south London. Is it becoming harder for someone from that kind of background to break into acting? This life wasn’t a dream of mine when I was a kid. I didn’t know it was something I could dream about. The opportunities that presented themselves are what made it possible. At the moment, it seems like those doors have been pushed further closed. And I think there should be a concerted effort to reopen them. We risk losing the working-class perspective. And I think that the idea that you don’t have to make an effort to preserve the voices of the working class is criminal. You wrote 2018 drama Save Me, which felt particularly evocative in its portrayal of council estate life. What do you think TV gets wrong when telling stories about the working class? I hate it when they patronise us, caricature us, over-sentimentalise us. They get the moral compass and belief system of working-class life wrong. It’s often a story about people who hate where they’re at, but more often than not, it’s people who want better for themselves but are making the best of where they are. That’s a big difference. Some stories feel like they’re on safari. They have no core. In the past, you mentored kids with similar backgrounds to you. Do you still do that? I’m not in the same location enough at the moment to do it properly. You have to commit to being consistent. I do mentor people within my industry, particularly younger black male actors. I teach them: “How do you argue your corner without scaring people?” without the bass in your voice scaring white people, basically! And on the other side of that, how to navigate success. Some of it has taken me longer to learn than it should have. Do you have any career ambitions unfulfilled? There are parts I want to play. There are things I’d like to do. I don’t want to jinx them! One thing I can say out loud is that I’d like to write and direct a film. There’s a story that I want to tell, as a director. I just have to write it. Writing is far harder than acting. I love rewriting! But the blank page? It’s a regret of mine that I have yet to get over my fear of it. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Joining Taskmaster was like winning the lottery, says the comedian — but appearing on it really tested her temper
Add Taskmaster to your watchlist What’s the view from your sofa? My husband [businessman Mike Dobinson] and I live in a small flat in Brighton, so we’ve got the telly in the corner and then we’ve got our little sofa on the opposite side. I got a sore neck last night because there’s a good and a bad seat on it and I was in the bad seat… but it’s lovely and it’s ours, so it’s all right! What have you been watching? We’re bingeing The White Lotus, which is so good. It seems like the best job ever: to be taken to these gorgeous destinations and deliver great dialogue about being the worst people in the world. Who controls the TV remote? Me! I’m terrible for chipping in with my own personal thoughts about what we would do in that scenario. I do my husband’s head in by constantly pressing pause and going, “Can you imagine if I did that?” And he’s always like, “Yeah... Should we carry on watching?” How big a deal was it when you got the call from Taskmaster? It’s the show that everybody wants to do. When the offer came in, I felt like I’d won the lottery! I’ve been waiting and hoping that I might get asked. It’s a bit like when your parents go, “Why don’t you just hand in a CV and ask if they’re hiring?” It’s not for lack of wanting, believe me! I haven’t turned it down these past five years. Did anything surprise you about being on the show? My temper! I’ve watched the show so many times and thought, “You just need to stay calm and think laterally; take a step back.” When you’re there, you’re filming back-to-back tasks from early in the morning to late at night and it’s filmed in real time. You’re also not given any information, so you do feel quite exposed. I’ve learnt that I’m not great under pressure! What have you learnt from being on panel shows? When I started doing them, there was definitely a style that was very “elbows out”. Five people would start talking at once and whoever kept talking would get the gag in the edit, and that is tiring across a three-hour record! Maybe it’s to do with podcasts, but a big change is that people now want more natural chat. They want a bunch of comedians getting together and having an authentic conversation that ends up wittier than the average dinner party. The gender balance of British panel shows is a recurring conversation… You look at early series of Mock the Week and it was all the same kind of male. I was lucky that my breakthrough into panel shows was on the tail end of people clocking on to that. Just look at this series of Taskmaster. There’s such a wide breadth of humour and age that’s hilarious to blend. It makes a better show. Don’t get me wrong, talent always comes first, but if you book five similar comics, it’s five people making the same type of jokes. That wears thin. Your mum runs Louder than Words, a literary festival in Manchester. Was that creative background helpful for a comedian? She started that festival on her own ten years ago and it’s still going. I’m really proud of her! I think that’s helped inspire the gung-ho “just give it a go” attitude you need for stand-up. My dad is the quiet one. Did growing up in Yorkshire shape your sense of humour? Yorkshire has a reputation for being somehow both blunt and friendly and I think that’s a massive testament to its sense of humour! It can get misconstrued by a lot of academic, London-based people as being basic, entry-level comedy. But it’s mass appeal and just as valid as any Oxbridge Footlights-style comedy.
Taskmaster's Maisie Adam: "You look at early series of Mock the Week and it was all the same kind of male"
Joining Taskmaster was like winning the lottery, says the comedian – but appearing on it really tested her temper.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. What’s the view from your sofa? My husband [businessman Mike Dobinson] and I live in a small flat in Brighton, so we’ve got the telly in the corner and then we’ve got our little sofa on the opposite side. I got a sore neck last night because there’s a good and a bad seat on it and I was in the bad seat… but it’s lovely and it’s ours, so it’s all right! What have you been watching? We’re bingeing The White Lotus, which is so good. It seems like the best job ever: to be taken to these gorgeous destinations and deliver great dialogue about being the worst people in the world. Who controls the TV remote? Me! I’m terrible for chipping in with my own personal thoughts about what we would do in that scenario. I do my husband’s head in by constantly pressing pause and going, “Can you imagine if I did that?” And he’s always like, “Yeah... Should we carry on watching?” How big a deal was it when you got the call from Taskmaster? It’s the show that everybody wants to do. When the offer came in, I felt like I’d won the lottery! I’ve been waiting and hoping that I might get asked. It’s a bit like when your parents go, “Why don’t you just hand in a CV and ask if they’re hiring?” It’s not for lack of wanting, believe me! I haven’t turned it down these past five years. Did anything surprise you about being on the show? My temper! I’ve watched the show so many times and thought, “You just need to stay calm and think laterally; take a step back.” When you’re there, you’re filming back-to-back tasks from early in the morning to late at night and it’s filmed in real time. You’re also not given any information, so you do feel quite exposed. I’ve learnt that I’m not great under pressure! What have you learnt from being on panel shows? When I started doing them, there was definitely a style that was very “elbows out”. Five people would start talking at once and whoever kept talking would get the gag in the edit, and that is tiring across a three-hour record! Maybe it’s to do with podcasts, but a big change is that people now want more natural chat. They want a bunch of comedians getting together and having an authentic conversation that ends up wittier than the average dinner party. The gender balance of British panel shows is a recurring conversation… You look at early series of Mock the Week and it was all the same kind of male. I was lucky that my breakthrough into panel shows was on the tail end of people clocking on to that. Just look at this series of Taskmaster. There’s such a wide breadth of humour and age that’s hilarious to blend. It makes a better show. Don’t get me wrong, talent always comes first, but if you book five similar comics, it’s five people making the same type of jokes. That wears thin. Your mum runs Louder than Words, a literary festival in Manchester. Was that creative background helpful for a comedian? She started that festival on her own ten years ago and it’s still going. I’m really proud of her! I think that’s helped inspire the gung-ho “just give it a go” attitude you need for stand-up. My dad is the quiet one. Did growing up in Yorkshire shape your sense of humour? Yorkshire has a reputation for being somehow both blunt and friendly and I think that’s a massive testament to its sense of humour! It can get misconstrued by a lot of academic, London-based people as being basic, entry-level comedy. But it’s mass appeal and just as valid as any Oxbridge Footlights-style comedy. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Check out more of our Entertainment coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
The acclaimed actor on how to cheat death, fame’s “hall of mirrors” — and one small misstep for Harriskind
Add Foundation to your watchlist. Series 3 is available to stream on Apple TV+ from Friday 11 July. British actor Jared Harris has starred in some of the most critically acclaimed TV shows of the 21st century. He played tragic Englishman Lane Pryce in Mad Men, Soviet scientist Valery Legasov in Chernobyl and King George VI in The Crown. But for now the 63-year-old has left period drama behind, playing prophetic genius Hari Seldon in Apple TV+ sci-fi epic Foundation. About to kick off its third series, the show is based around a science capable of mapping out the future… One of Foundation’s core themes is how seemingly tiny events can have profound consequences for the future. Has that made you think about our own future as a society? There are all sorts of crossroads. If the US Supreme Court had made a different decision in 2000, Al Gore would have been the president. Maybe then we would have a completely different attitude towards climate change. We’d probably be in a different situation now. In Foundation, those tiny events snowball into huge inflection points called Seldon Crises. Are we nearing our own Seldon Crisis? I think we’re constantly going through those. When I was younger we were living under the fear of nuclear armageddon. The Cold War was something that would keep you up at night. Now we face different sorts of existential crises. You wanted to go into space as a child, so is Foundation the next best thing? Of course! The Apollo programme was such a big thing when I was young. Unfortunately I missed the Moon landing because my older brother had discovered a bottle of cider and persuaded eight-year-old me to drink some. Only it wasn’t cider, it was paraffin! So we were having our stomachs pumped when Neil Armstrong was walking on the Moon. Your TV CV is impressive. What do you look for in a script? You’re looking for something that is a story that you’re interested in telling. If you’re struggling to turn the pages and get to the end, that’s probably something you should let somebody else do, who’s going to be excited about it. View Green Video on the source website What was it that excited you about Foundation? When I read the first season, I found it fascinating that the main characters have all figured out how to cheat death. It’s something that we’d all love to figure out, but what do you give up in return? You once said that you took a role in Marvel movie Morbius because you have a mortgage. As an actor, how do you strike that balance between money and art? You’ve got bills to pay. You’ve got people you have to look after. You say yes to things because they tick certain boxes. It’s quite rare that something comes along that ticks all the boxes: “It’s a great part with a great director, it’s well-written, you’re going to get well paid for it and it’s going to be seen by lots of people.” Maybe three times in your whole career it’s going to be something like that, if you’re lucky! Taking on bigger roles obviously leads to greater recognition. What is your relationship with fame? I can walk down the street and not be bothered. My take on fame is that it’s a hall of mirrors, like at a funfair, and it distorts the way people look at you and how you see the world. It’s extremely difficult to deal with. Did you learn any lessons about fame from your father, Richard? Yeah. He had his own place that he would get away to. He was always pretty resolutely himself. He didn’t hang around Hollywood and do the Hollywood things, not that I knew. And you watch from a distance when you’re a child; watching the way people would interact with him and how he’d deal with them. How was it growing up in the shadow of such a famous actor? I mean, he was my dad. I couldn’t compare it to something else. Sometimes I’d be aware. You turn the TV on and he’s on Top of the Pops; that was pretty extraordinary. The biggest difference about him was that he lived by his own rules. That was exciting and also confusing because you’re taught as a child that these are the rules and these are things you have to live by. Then you have somebody who ignored all the rules and lived life his own way. Do you ever think what it would have been like to share a scene with him as an actor? It’s one of the regrets of my life that didn’t happen. There were a couple of times that we tried to. There was one point when we were trying to put together a production of Long Day’s Journey into Night, but it didn’t happen. I was always impressed by the detail in his performances. I was constantly discovering something new in the thought process of what he was trying to get across. I think it would have been amazing.
Jared Harris reveals one of his biggest regrets – never working with his screen icon father
The acclaimed actor on how to cheat death, fame’s “hall of mirrors” — and one small misstep for Harriskind.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. British actor Jared Harris has starred in some of the most critically acclaimed TV shows of the 21st century. He played tragic Englishman Lane Pryce in Mad Men, Soviet scientist Valery Legasov in Chernobyl and King George VI in The Crown. But for now the 63-year-old has left period drama behind, playing prophetic genius Hari Seldon in Apple TV+ sci-fi epic Foundation. About to kick off its third series, the show is based around a science capable of mapping out the future… One of Foundation’s core themes is how seemingly tiny events can have profound consequences for the future. Has that made you think about our own future as a society? There are all sorts of crossroads. If the US Supreme Court had made a different decision in 2000, Al Gore would have been the president. Maybe then we would have a completely different attitude towards climate change. We’d probably be in a different situation now. In Foundation, those tiny events snowball into huge inflection points called Seldon Crises. Are we nearing our own Seldon Crisis? I think we’re constantly going through those. When I was younger we were living under the fear of nuclear armageddon. The Cold War was something that would keep you up at night. Now we face different sorts of existential crises. You wanted to go into space as a child, so is Foundation the next best thing? Of course! The Apollo programme was such a big thing when I was young. Unfortunately I missed the Moon landing because my older brother had discovered a bottle of cider and persuaded eight-year-old me to drink some. Only it wasn’t cider, it was paraffin! So we were having our stomachs pumped when Neil Armstrong was walking on the Moon. Your TV CV is impressive. What do you look for in a script? You’re looking for something that is a story that you’re interested in telling. If you’re struggling to turn the pages and get to the end, that’s probably something you should let somebody else do, who’s going to be excited about it. What was it that excited you about Foundation? When I read the first season, I found it fascinating that the main characters have all figured out how to cheat death. It’s something that we’d all love to figure out, but what do you give up in return? You once said that you took a role in Marvel movie Morbius because you have a mortgage. As an actor, how do you strike that balance between money and art? You’ve got bills to pay. You’ve got people you have to look after. You say yes to things because they tick certain boxes. It’s quite rare that something comes along that ticks all the boxes: “It’s a great part with a great director, it’s well-written, you’re going to get well paid for it and it’s going to be seen by lots of people.” Maybe three times in your whole career it’s going to be something like that, if you’re lucky! Taking on bigger roles obviously leads to greater recognition. What is your relationship with fame? I can walk down the street and not be bothered. My take on fame is that it’s a hall of mirrors, like at a funfair, and it distorts the way people look at you and how you see the world. It’s extremely difficult to deal with. Did you learn any lessons about fame from your father, Richard? Yeah. He had his own place that he would get away to. He was always pretty resolutely himself. He didn’t hang around Hollywood and do the Hollywood things, not that I knew. And you watch from a distance when you’re a child; watching the way people would interact with him and how he’d deal with them. How was it growing up in the shadow of such a famous actor? I mean, he was my dad. I couldn’t compare it to something else. Sometimes I’d be aware. You turn the TV on and he’s on Top of the Pops; that was pretty extraordinary. The biggest difference about him was that he lived by his own rules. That was exciting and also confusing because you’re taught as a child that these are the rules and these are things you have to live by. Then you have somebody who ignored all the rules and lived life his own way. Do you ever think what it would have been like to share a scene with him as an actor? It’s one of the regrets of my life that didn’t happen. There were a couple of times that we tried to. There was one point when we were trying to put together a production of Long Day’s Journey into Night, but it didn’t happen. I was always impressed by the detail in his performances. I was constantly discovering something new in the thought process of what he was trying to get across. I think it would have been amazing. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Foundation season 3 is available to stream on Apple TV+ from Friday 11 July – sign up to Apple TV+ now. Check out more of our Entertainment coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what else is on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
As Star Wars origin series Andor returns, creator Tony Gilroy reveals why he insisted on turning his back on the Skywalkers and embracing the dark side
This article was first published in Radio Times magazine in May 2025. Add Andor to your watchlist The American screenwriter Tony Gilroy, a cerebral man best known for making the gritty Bourne action movies, had one condition before signing on to create a Star Wars TV show. “I was just not interested in the Skywalkers,” he tells RT. “I said to Disney, ‘You’ve made all these films about one group of people.’ There are billions of creatures in the galaxy and most have never heard of Jedis or the Force. Let’s get out of the front of the restaurant and go into the kitchen. That’s where I’ll be.” George Lucas’s Star Wars is, at heart, a space opera for children; morality tales about light versus dark, good versus evil. But Andor is something different. Indeed, there are no Skywalkers here. No lightsabers. No cute little Ewoks or Baby Yodas. In fact, the series – which has become the most critically acclaimed Star Wars story of the past decade – hardly feels like Star Wars at all. Instead, it’s a moody spy thriller in the mould of John le Carré, set during the height of the Galactic Empire, told in the serious, sophisticated style of prestige television. It doesn’t exactly scream “Disney”. “I mean, my God,” says Gilroy, “in series one we shoot a cop in the face in the opening scene – outside a brothel!” Andor is something extraordinary – Star Wars for adults. Ask a fan of the show what it’s about, and they might tell you different things. The scrappy rise of the Rebel Alliance. The suffocating oppression of the Empire. But primarily, it’s about Cassian Andor – played by Mexican actor Diego Luna – who was first introduced in 2016 Star Wars spin-off movie Rogue One. That film told the story of how seasoned spy Andor sacrificed himself to steal the plans for the Death Star; the planet-destroying superweapon introduced in 1977’s original Star Wars movie (and later blown up by Luke Skywalker). Andor rewinds the timeline back a further five years. It is, in the words of Luna, a chronicle of how a “cynical, individualistic” thief became a revolutionary hero. “A lot has to happen before he becomes that man,” he says. When it debuted in 2022, Andor did not arrive amid optimism or fanfare. It was a spin-off of a spin-off, a prequel to a prequel, an origin story about a character few people cared about. As viewers soon realised, however, what set it apart from other Disney Star Wars projects was that – to quote Gilroy – it “tries very rigorously to be more serious about this s**t than anybody ever has been”. George Lucas’s original Star Wars films were not without their own seriousness, of course. The Rebels in the first Star Wars movie in 1977 were based on the Viet Cong during the Vietnam War. The 1999–2005 prequel trilogy follows the death of democracy. Yet Gilroy was interested in specifics, in taking the more operatic concepts of Star Wars and considering how they would work in reality. For example: where did the Rebel Alliance get the money to afford their weapons and spaceships? The first half of season one follows Andor as he is recruited by a mysterious man named Luthen Rael – a grizzled rebel spymaster played by Stellan Skarsgard – to pull off the daring heist of a fortified Imperial vault. Like much of Andor, the heist was inspired by real revolutionary history, specifically, Joseph Stalin’s 1907 robbery of a Georgian bank, the proceeds of which helped finance the Russian Revolution. “I’m an autodidactic, dinner-table history idiot,” says Gilroy. “The French Revolution, the Haitian Revolution – Andor is like a catalogue of a couple of thousand years of repetitive cruelty and oppression.” Now, for Andor’s 12-episode second series (which takes place over four years), Gilroy dives deeper into the psychology of rebellion, exploring what it would take for the once-selfish Andor to become someone who would die for the cause. “In Rogue One he has a speech saying he couldn’t face himself if he didn’t give everything,” explains Luna. “For him to understand that line, he has to witness a lot of darkness.” Darkness, of course, isn’t just the preserve of the villains. There’s a scene in Andor’s new series in which Ben Mendelsohn’s Orson Krennic, the director of the Death Star project, rolls his eyes at a dissenter and sneers, “My rebel is your terrorist, something like that?” It’s a line that encapsulates one of Andor’s more challenging themes – the moral complexities of resistance, and the ruthlessness required to topple a regime. “It takes the courage of people to resist empire,” says Irish actress Genevieve O’Reilly, who reprises her role as senator Mon Mothma, the future leader of the Rebellion. “History decides who we call heroes and who we don’t.” The respectable Mothma spends much of Andor politicking in the elite circles of the galaxy. But the Rebellion is built on the dirty work of the ruthless Luthen Rael, whose pragmatic methods include bombings and assassinations. “I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them,” he growls in the first series. “I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I’ll never see.” “There’s a great variety of opinion within rebellion,” says Gilroy. “What happens if you go violent? What happens if you don’t? What constitutes the proper rules of engagement for resistance? If you’re going to do an honest show about this topic, you have to be able to confront all the colours of it.” Multibillion-dollar, family-friendly entertainment corporations don’t tend to be fans of violent revolutionaries. But Gilroy insists that Disney have been nothing but supportive of Andor’s approach. “I don’t have a Game of Thrones toolbox with violence and sex,” he says, “but I’ve never had any ideological pushback.” A request he did receive was to “change one line” in a speech delivered by Andor’s mother, Maarva, played by Fiona Shaw, at the end of series one. As the speech reaches its crescendo, she cries out “Fight the Empire!” – a watering down of the original line, “F*** the Empire!” “I can understand why,” says Gilroy drily. The Empire itself is drawn with complexity. One of the show’s most fascinating characters is Dedra Meero, a sour-faced officer who works for the Imperial Security Bureau (ISB), essentially the Empire’s Gestapo. “She’s one of the most complex women I’ve played,” says Olivier Award-winning Irish actor Denise Gough, who found herself unconsciously admiring Meero’s competent zeal for tracking down rebels. “Is she a psychopath? A cult member? Is she just following orders? In series one, I kept thinking, ‘She’s so excellent at her job!’ But, you know, she is a fascist…” George Lucas originally took inspiration from Nazi Germany for the aesthetics of the Empire. Hence, “stormtroopers”. Yet, while Star Wars has traditionally painted the Empire in broad strokes of cartoonish evil, Andor reimagines it as something more ordinary: a vast totalitarian system full of petty office politics and soul-crushing bureaucracy. “The ISB is like Veep or The Thick of It,” says Gough, “with people bitching at each other and everyone getting annoyed.” This banality of evil is typified by a major plotline in season two, in which Dedra Meero attends an ostensibly mundane meeting about the most effective way to turn public opinion against Ghorman, a planet the Empire wants to ravage for resources. The ambitious Meero senses a career opportunity. “My view of the Empire is that it’s human beings in an institution,” says Gilroy, who drew upon the themes of his George Clooney-starring legal thriller Michael Clayton. “There might be a bunch of true believers. But a lot of people are more worried about getting a promotion. I’m fascinated by people who exile themselves from what they truly believe in order to live.” Some real-life parallels cut even closer. Beyond the Nazi comparison, in 2018 Star Wars creator George Lucas told fellow director James Cameron that the “big, highly technical Empire” was also meant to resemble the imperial might of 1970s America – especially its prosecution of the Vietnam War. Andor, arguably the most political Star Wars project to date, finds itself airing during a similarly febrile time. In 2022, Fiona Shaw described Andor as a “scurrilous” reaction to the rising authoritarianism of a “Trumpian world”. By contrast, Tony Gilroy – and much of the cast – are reluctant to entangle the show with current events. “It felt that way when the first season came out,” says Diego Luna, carefully. “[As humans] we tend to repeat ourselves. We need reminding what our responsibilities are as citizens, as a community. It’s always relevant.” “We started the show years ago,” adds Gilroy, who is keen that Andor is not perceived purely as a comment on modern politics. “We don’t look at a newspaper while we’re writing. And that’s not just me being safe and cynical. The show speaks for itself. And what the show has to say is taking place in the galaxy. Any similarity with what’s happening [in the real world] is sadly a repetitive cycle that’s been happening all through history. “We all think that we live in some special time,” he says, firmly. “But just pick up a history book, open a page, and put yourself in there.” Andor’s first three episodes launch on Disney+ on 23 April, with more episodes following each Wednesday
Andor creator: 'We try to be more serious about Star Wars – we shot a cop in the face in the opening scene'
The spin-off's creator reveals why he insisted on turning his back on the Skywalkers and embracing the dark side.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. The American screenwriter Tony Gilroy, a cerebral man best known for making the gritty Bourne action movies, had one condition before signing on to create a Star Wars TV show. “I was just not interested in the Skywalkers,” he tells Radio Times magazine. “I said to Disney, ‘You’ve made all these films about one group of people.’ There are billions of creatures in the galaxy and most have never heard of Jedis or the Force. Let’s get out of the front of the restaurant and go into the kitchen. That’s where I’ll be.” George Lucas’s Star Wars is, at heart, a space opera for children; morality tales about light versus dark, good versus evil. But Andor is something different. Indeed, there are no Skywalkers here. No lightsabers. No cute little Ewoks or Baby Yodas. In fact, the series – which has become the most critically acclaimed Star Wars story of the past decade – hardly feels like Star Wars at all. Instead, it’s a moody spy thriller in the mould of John le Carré, set during the height of the Galactic Empire, told in the serious, sophisticated style of prestige television. It doesn’t exactly scream “Disney”. “I mean, my God,” says Gilroy, “in series one we shoot a cop in the face in the opening scene – outside a brothel!” Andor is something extraordinary – Star Wars for adults. Ask a fan of the show what it’s about, and they might tell you different things. The scrappy rise of the Rebel Alliance. The suffocating oppression of the Empire. But primarily, it’s about Cassian Andor – played by Mexican actor Diego Luna – who was first introduced in 2016 Star Wars spin-off movie Rogue One. That film told the story of how seasoned spy Andor sacrificed himself to steal the plans for the Death Star; the planet-destroying superweapon introduced in 1977’s original Star Wars movie (and later blown up by Luke Skywalker). View Green Video on the source website Andor rewinds the timeline back a further five years. It is, in the words of Luna, a chronicle of how a “cynical, individualistic” thief became a revolutionary hero. “A lot has to happen before he becomes that man,” he says. When it debuted in 2022, Andor did not arrive amid optimism or fanfare. It was a spin-off of a spin-off, a prequel to a prequel, an origin story about a character few people cared about. As viewers soon realised, however, what set it apart from other Disney Star Wars projects was that – to quote Gilroy – it “tries very rigorously to be more serious about this s**t than anybody ever has been”. George Lucas’s original Star Wars films were not without their own seriousness, of course. The Rebels in the first Star Wars movie in 1977 were based on the Viet Cong during the Vietnam War. The 1999–2005 prequel trilogy follows the death of democracy. Yet Gilroy was interested in specifics, in taking the more operatic concepts of Star Wars and considering how they would work in reality. For example: where did the Rebel Alliance get the money to afford their weapons and spaceships? The first half of season one follows Andor as he is recruited by a mysterious man named Luthen Rael – a grizzled rebel spymaster played by Stellan Skarsgard – to pull off the daring heist of a fortified Imperial vault. Like much of Andor, the heist was inspired by real revolutionary history, specifically, Joseph Stalin’s 1907 robbery of a Georgian bank, the proceeds of which helped finance the Russian Revolution. “I’m an autodidactic, dinner-table history idiot,” says Gilroy. “The French Revolution, the Haitian Revolution – Andor is like a catalogue of a couple of thousand years of repetitive cruelty and oppression.” Now, for Andor’s 12-episode second series (which takes place over four years), Gilroy dives deeper into the psychology of rebellion, exploring what it would take for the once-selfish Andor to become someone who would die for the cause. “In Rogue One he has a speech saying he couldn’t face himself if he didn’t give everything,” explains Luna. “For him to understand that line, he has to witness a lot of darkness.” Darkness, of course, isn’t just the preserve of the villains. There’s a scene in Andor’s new series in which Ben Mendelsohn’s Orson Krennic, the director of the Death Star project, rolls his eyes at a dissenter and sneers, “My rebel is your terrorist, something like that?” It’s a line that encapsulates one of Andor’s more challenging themes – the moral complexities of resistance, and the ruthlessness required to topple a regime. “It takes the courage of people to resist empire,” says Irish actress Genevieve O’Reilly, who reprises her role as senator Mon Mothma, the future leader of the Rebellion. “History decides who we call heroes and who we don’t.” The respectable Mothma spends much of Andor politicking in the elite circles of the galaxy. But the Rebellion is built on the dirty work of the ruthless Luthen Rael, whose pragmatic methods include bombings and assassinations. “I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them,” he growls in the first series. “I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I’ll never see.” “There’s a great variety of opinion within rebellion,” says Gilroy. “What happens if you go violent? What happens if you don’t? What constitutes the proper rules of engagement for resistance? If you’re going to do an honest show about this topic, you have to be able to confront all the colours of it.” Multibillion-dollar, family-friendly entertainment corporations don’t tend to be fans of violent revolutionaries. But Gilroy insists that Disney have been nothing but supportive of Andor’s approach. “I don’t have a Game of Thrones toolbox with violence and sex,” he says, “but I’ve never had any ideological pushback.” A request he did receive was to “change one line” in a speech delivered by Andor’s mother, Maarva, played by Fiona Shaw, at the end of series one. As the speech reaches its crescendo, she cries out “Fight the Empire!” – a watering down of the original line, “F**k the Empire!” “I can understand why,” says Gilroy drily. The Empire itself is drawn with complexity. One of the show’s most fascinating characters is Dedra Meero, a sour-faced officer who works for the Imperial Security Bureau (ISB), essentially the Empire’s Gestapo. “She’s one of the most complex women I’ve played,” says Olivier Award-winning Irish actor Denise Gough, who found herself unconsciously admiring Meero’s competent zeal for tracking down rebels. “Is she a psychopath? A cult member? Is she just following orders? In series one, I kept thinking, ‘She’s so excellent at her job!’ But, you know, she is a fascist…” George Lucas originally took inspiration from Nazi Germany for the aesthetics of the Empire. Hence, “stormtroopers”. Yet, while Star Wars has traditionally painted the Empire in broad strokes of cartoonish evil, Andor reimagines it as something more ordinary: a vast totalitarian system full of petty office politics and soul-crushing bureaucracy. “The ISB is like Veep or The Thick of It,” says Gough, “with people bitching at each other and everyone getting annoyed.” This banality of evil is typified by a major plotline in season two, in which Dedra Meero attends an ostensibly mundane meeting about the most effective way to turn public opinion against Ghorman, a planet the Empire wants to ravage for resources. The ambitious Meero senses a career opportunity. “My view of the Empire is that it’s human beings in an institution,” says Gilroy, who drew upon the themes of his George Clooney-starring legal thriller Michael Clayton. “There might be a bunch of true believers. But a lot of people are more worried about getting a promotion. I’m fascinated by people who exile themselves from what they truly believe in order to live.” Some real-life parallels cut even closer. Beyond the Nazi comparison, in 2018 Star Wars creator George Lucas told fellow director James Cameron that the “big, highly technical Empire” was also meant to resemble the imperial might of 1970s America – especially its prosecution of the Vietnam War. Andor, arguably the most political Star Wars project to date, finds itself airing during a similarly febrile time. In 2022, Fiona Shaw described Andor as a “scurrilous” reaction to the rising authoritarianism of a “Trumpian world”. By contrast, Tony Gilroy – and much of the cast – are reluctant to entangle the show with current events. “It felt that way when the first season came out,” says Diego Luna, carefully. “[As humans] we tend to repeat ourselves. We need reminding what our responsibilities are as citizens, as a community. It’s always relevant.” “We started the show years ago,” adds Gilroy, who is keen that Andor is not perceived purely as a comment on modern politics. “We don’t look at a newspaper while we’re writing. And that’s not just me being safe and cynical. The show speaks for itself. And what the show has to say is taking place in the galaxy. Any similarity with what’s happening [in the real world] is sadly a repetitive cycle that’s been happening all through history. “We all think that we live in some special time,” he says, firmly. “But just pick up a history book, open a page, and put yourself in there.” Andor is available to stream on Disney Plus – season 2 arrives on Wednesday 23rd April 2025. View Affiliate Playlist on the source website Check out more of our Sci-Fi coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
The IT Crowd star is back on home turf in his culture-clash comedy drama where Hollywood meets small-town Ireland
Add Small Town, Big Story to your watchlist Irish actor Chris O’Dowd is known for the Channel 4 sitcom The IT Crowd and the hit American romcom Bridesmaids, but it was the experience of shooting his 2012 coming-of-age Sky comedy Moone Boy, filmed in Boyle, where he grew up, that inspired him to write and direct his new show, Small Town, Big Story. Set in the fictional rural town of Drumbán, it follows a community that’s taken over by a huge Hollywood production. And for O’Dowd — who recently moved from Los Angeles to London with his wife, writer Dawn O’Porter, and their two sons, aged ten and seven — it was a chance to return to his roots. Small Town, Big Story took you back home to Boyle. What made you want to film there again? I’d been looking for a reason to go back and film close to home. I was stuck in Los Angeles during lockdown in 2021 and we were living by a ravine. I’d walk the dog near it for two hours a day and it was the closest I had felt to home – the scenery reminded me of the forests where I grew up. It gave me a feeling of being far away. And this show is how that feeling manifested itself. How did the experience of making Moone Boy a decade ago inspire your new story about a small town swallowed up by Hollywood? It’s not a coincidence! The locals love you at first and then eventually it’s like, “Oh my God, my driveway is blocked again!” You get into the practicalities of life and the novelty wears off. It’s interesting how unnatural it all feels. People that you’ve known all your life come up to you wearing a little bit more make-up than they usually would! Was there anything in particular you wanted to capture about small-town Irish life? I like that nobody has moved on from the dynamics that they had at school! That happens in small towns more than people realise. You see it in the bar scenes where these middle-aged men are still ribbing each other. It’s so juvenile and silly, although it has its own kind of intimacy to it. Christina Hendricks plays Wendy, a Hollywood producer with a connection to Drumbán. What’s the story behind casting her? I hadn’t met her before. I was shooting something and I called my wife, Dawn, and I was saying, “Oh, we’re still trying to cast the female lead,” and she was like, “You know who’s in the kitchen? Christina Hendricks.” I’m like, “…from Mad Men?!” They had this connection through some fashion line or something. “Well,” I said, “she’d be great!” You recently moved from Los Angeles to London. What was the thinking behind that? We moved back last summer. Dawn is English so we always knew we were going to come back. We thought we would wait until the kids were in secondary school but then Covid hit and we suddenly felt very far away. Our parents were getting old, I wanted to visit Ireland more… I loved LA, though. I remember somebody asking, “Does it not just feel like being on holiday all the time?” and I was like, “Yes! That’s the draw!” Cillian Murphy joked that he moved back to Ireland because his kids were developing “posh English accents”. Is that sense of Irishness important to you, too? I don’t know how I’d feel about them having British accents – there’s a lot of generational trauma there! Them having American accents I can live with but they are a bit of a mish-mash at the moment – let’s see how it plays out! Do you take them back to Ireland? We go back a good bit. They love Nana’s pancakes. My eldest has really got into the habit of wearing Ireland sports gear and he’s this kind of fiery redhead. Somehow, it’s been passed through us! Your kids are growing up the children of famous parents. Is it strange how different their childhood is from your own? That’s something I think about all the time. I try to regulate it. I don’t think they even knew I was an actor until a year or two ago. And now they only know because every now and then people stop me for a photo. It must be weird for them for people to know who their dad is. But it’s never really a part of our lives. Is The IT Crowd still the thing people recognise you for? It depends where I am. If I’m in Ireland, it’d be Moone Boy; if it was America, it’d be Bridesmaids. Although I was at a party once in LA and this guy comes up to me and says, “Oh my God, I play music and I have tinnitus. We’d go touring and I wouldn’t be able to sleep. But I’d put on The IT Crowd and it’d just relax me. You saved rock ’n’ roll, dude!” Anyway, he was the guitarist in Green Day! Have there been times since The IT Crowd where you have had to suggest “turning it off and on again”? Yes! It’s true all the time! It works! Small Town, Big Story is on Thursday at 2.00am and 9.00pm Sky Atlantic/Max
Chris O'Dowd on returning to his roots for Small Town, Big Story: "I'd been looking for a reason"
The IT Crowd star and Moone Boy creator speaks to Radio Times about his new Sky series.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Irish actor Chris O’Dowd is known for the Channel 4 sitcom The IT Crowd and the hit American romcom Bridesmaids, but it was the experience of shooting his 2012 coming-of-age Sky comedy Moone Boy, filmed in Boyle, where he grew up, that inspired him to write and direct his new show, Small Town, Big Story. Set in the fictional rural town of Drumbán, it follows a community that’s taken over by a huge Hollywood production. And for O’Dowd — who recently moved from Los Angeles to London with his wife, writer Dawn O’Porter, and their two sons, aged 10 and seven — it was a chance to return to his roots. Small Town, Big Story took you back home to Boyle. What made you want to film there again? I’d been looking for a reason to go back and film close to home. I was stuck in Los Angeles during lockdown in 2021 and we were living by a ravine. I’d walk the dog near it for two hours a day and it was the closest I had felt to home – the scenery reminded me of the forests where I grew up. It gave me a feeling of being far away. And this show is how that feeling manifested itself. How did the experience of making Moone Boy a decade ago inspire your new story about a small town swallowed up by Hollywood? It’s not a coincidence! The locals love you at first and then eventually it’s like: "Oh my God, my driveway is blocked again!" You get into the practicalities of life and the novelty wears off. It’s interesting how unnatural it all feels. People that you’ve known all your life come up to you wearing a little bit more make-up than they usually would! Was there anything in particular you wanted to capture about small-town Irish life? I like that nobody has moved on from the dynamics that they had at school! That happens in small towns more than people realise. You see it in the bar scenes where these middle-aged men are still ribbing each other. It’s so juvenile and silly, although it has its own kind of intimacy to it. Christina Hendricks plays Wendy, a Hollywood producer with a connection to Drumbán. What’s the story behind casting her? I hadn’t met her before. I was shooting something and I called my wife, Dawn, and I was saying, "Oh, we’re still trying to cast the female lead," and she was like, "You know who’s in the kitchen? Christina Hendricks." I’m like, "…from Mad Men?!" They had this connection through some fashion line or something. "Well," I said, "she’d be great!" You recently moved from Los Angeles to London. What was the thinking behind that? We moved back last summer. Dawn is English so we always knew we were going to come back. We thought we would wait until the kids were in secondary school but then Covid hit and we suddenly felt very far away. Our parents were getting old, I wanted to visit Ireland more… I loved LA, though. I remember somebody asking, “Does it not just feel like being on holiday all the time?” and I was like, “Yes! That’s the draw!” Cillian Murphy joked that he moved back to Ireland because his kids were developing "posh English accents". Is that sense of Irishness important to you, too? I don’t know how I’d feel about them having British accents – there’s a lot of generational trauma there! Them having American accents I can live with, but they are a bit of a mish-mash at the moment – let’s see how it plays out! Do you take them back to Ireland? We go back a good bit. They love Nana’s pancakes. My eldest has really got into the habit of wearing Ireland sports gear and he’s this kind of fiery redhead. Somehow, it’s been passed through us! Your kids are growing up the children of famous parents. Is it strange how different their childhood is from your own? That’s something I think about all the time. I try to regulate it. I don’t think they even knew I was an actor until a year or two ago. And now they only know because every now and then people stop me for a photo. It must be weird for them for people to know who their dad is. But it’s never really a part of our lives. Is The IT Crowd still the thing people recognise you for? It depends where I am. If I’m in Ireland, it’d be Moone Boy; if it was America, it’d be Bridesmaids. Although I was at a party once in LA and this guy comes up to me and says, "Oh my God, I play music and I have tinnitus. We’d go touring and I wouldn’t be able to sleep. But I’d put on The IT Crowd and it’d just relax me. You saved rock ’n’ roll, dude!" Anyway, he was the guitarist in Green Day! Have there been times since The IT Crowd where you have had to suggest "turning it off and on again"? Yes! It’s true all the time! It works! The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Small Town, Big Story premieres on Sky and NOW on Thursday 27th February 2025. Check out more of our Comedy coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Star Wars: Skeleton Crew creator says he'll "protect" young cast as they opt to "stay off social media"
The cast and creators of Skeleton Crew, including Jude Law, spoke with Radio Times magazine.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. When Jude Law was seven years old, he would run around his playground at school in Blackheath, London, pretending to be Luke Skywalker. “We had those really early, fat, chunky lightsabers,” he says, reflecting on the years in the late '70s when Star Wars mania first swept the UK. “They didn’t make any noises. They barely lit up. But we would go ‘pew-pew!’ and bash them about!” There is a fitting symmetry, of course, in the child who once pretended to be in Star Wars growing up to be in it for real. Yet for Law, now 51 and the star of the new Disney Plus series Star Wars: Skeleton Crew, it means more than that. “That leap of the imagination,” he says. “Play-acting as a kid, having that connection with roles that you want to recreate – it’s probably the reason I’m an actor.” That sense of childhood wonder – the generations of kids transfixed by starships, Jedi and adventure – is writ large in Skeleton Crew, the Star Wars story that puts the kids in charge. It follows four pre-teen protagonists who stumble upon a mysterious spaceship in the suburbs of their seemingly mundane, Earth-like planet. The wide-eyed Wim, played by 13-year-old American Ravi Cabot-Conyers, believes the ship leads to a Jedi temple. Instead, inside is the wreck of an old pirate ship – one that maroons them in space with no way back home. Law plays the enigmatic rogue Jod Na Nawood, a swashbuckling space pirate who tags along with the kids in the hope that they will lead him to long-lost treasure, entering the story properly in the third episode of the series. “I took a little bit of Han Solo as inspiration,” he explains. “I adore that slightly cynical, world-weary swagger.” Jude Law is no stranger to big, family-friendly franchises. In recent years he has popped up as villain Yon-Rogg in comic book movie Captain Marvel, and as the young Albus Dumbledore in the Fantastic Beasts films. Law is the father of seven children, most recently with psychologist wife Phillipa Coan in 2023. Is he seeking out roles that his offspring can watch? “Sure, sure,” he says, “but it’s also just my curiosity as an actor. I like that range of parts, of moods and worlds. I think the older I get, the more in touch I am with the child who was in awe of cinema. I am stepping into films that speak to that child.” Skeleton Crew was explicitly inspired by the Amblin films of the 1980s, with a specific debt to Richard Donner’s big-hearted 1985 classic The Goonies. “That was an era where films were being made with kids as the main characters and the kids were taken seriously,” says co-showrunner Jon Watts, best known for directing the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies. “I got to spend some time with Richard Donner before he died,” adds Watts, “and he told me that when you cast a kid, you don’t cast them to play a role; you cast them because of who they are.” On screen, the kids are a motley crew of misfits. Wim’s timid best friend Neel is a blue alien elephant, portrayed via VFX by 13-year-old Robert Timothy Smith. Joining the boys are 14-year-old Kyriana Kratter and Ryan Kiera Armstrong, who play (respectively) the booksmart cyborg KB and the feisty, hoverbike-racing Fern. In person, the young actors are a whirlwind of teenage American excitability, prone to shrieks of laughter and dizzying non sequiturs (“what if they made a Neel cereal called Neelios?!” offers Smith at one point, unprompted). The shoot, which utilised a mix of practical sets and an immersive LED backdrop called The Volume, “felt like we were at Star Wars camp”, recalls Cabot-Conyers, breathless. For Law, shepherding four hyperactive kids through the galaxy came naturally. “They taught me a lot about letting go and enjoying the playfulness,” he says, before adding that the trick on set was in striking a balance between “letting them know that there were demands on them, but also making them feel comfortable”. “I was starstruck!” giggles Armstrong. “I was like, ‘Oh my gosh, Jude Law is in the same room as me!’” View Affiliate Playlist on the source website “He was constantly professional but also making room for fun. Between takes, we would have thumb wars and stuff!” says Cabot-Conyers. Smith adds, “He was like a dad to us.” They may well need a protector now. It’s hard to deny that the Star Wars universe has become a hostile space in recent years. Many of the actors involved in 2017’s The Last Jedi, for instance, found themselves the targets of misogynistic and racist abuse from disgruntled fans; a trend that has continued across other projects. Was there any hesitation about bringing children into that world? “We absolutely want to make sure that the kids are protected,” says Watts, cautiously. “We’re keeping an eagle eye on all of it, to make sure they’re OK.” He will not reveal specifics, although the kids themselves are more forthcoming. “I’m going to stay off social media,” says Kratter. Such a divided fanbase speaks to a larger question about the future of Star Wars, a Disney franchise in flux. Since the release of 2019’s critically panned The Rise of Skywalker, an array of new films have been announced and cancelled. On Disney Plus, there is a scattershot feel to its range of Star Wars shows, many of which rely heavily on nostalgia. “I feel like Star Wars, for me, is something that I saw my parents really loving,” says Kratter, reflecting on what Star Wars means to kids her age. The hope from studio heads must be that Skeleton Crew can hook a whole new generation. “My dream is to have someone who has never seen Star Wars, and someone who knows everything about Star Wars to watch this together,” says Watts. “I think when Star Wars works well it makes you feel like you’re 10, no matter how old you are.” “The kids being the ones in jeopardy is so suited to Star Wars,” adds Law, who, for a moment, is also 10 years old again. “I remember, as a child, watching Darth Vader say, ‘I am your father…’” He pauses, shaking his head at the memory. “I mean, my world fell apart.” There’s a hint of Darth Vader in Law’s Jod and his mysterious ability to use the Force. Law is reluctant to blow his character’s secret backstory, but is effusive on finally being able to put his best “using the Force” acting into action. “I’ve been practising that for 45 years,” he says, grinning. “And at last to have something float and move towards me – it was a dream come true!” The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Star Wars: Skeleton Crew continues on Wednesdays on Disney Plus. Sign up to Disney Plus from £4.99 a month. Check out more of our Sci-Fi coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
The Star Wars films made a huge impression on the young Jude Law – now he’s taking a new generation of space adventurers across the universe
Add Star Wars: Skeleton Crew to your watchlist When Jude Law was seven years old, he would run around his playground at school in Blackheath, London, pretending to be Luke Skywalker. “We had those really early, fat, chunky lightsabers,” he says, reflecting on the years in the late 70s when Star Wars mania first swept the UK. “They didn’t make any noises. They barely lit up. But we would go ‘pew-pew!’ and bash them about!” There is a fitting symmetry, of course, in the child who once pretended to be in Star Wars growing up to be in it for real. Yet for Law, now 51 and the star of the new Disney+ series Star Wars: Skeleton Crew, it means more than that. “That leap of the imagination,” he says. “Play-acting as a kid, having that connection with roles that you want to recreate – it’s probably the reason I’m an actor.” That sense of childhood wonder – the generations of kids transfixed by starships, Jedi and adventure – is writ large in Skeleton Crew, the Star Wars story that puts the kids in charge. It follows four pre-teen protagonists who stumble upon a mysterious spaceship in the suburbs of their seemingly mundane, Earth-like planet. The wide-eyed Wim, played by 13-year-old American Ravi Cabot-Conyers, believes the ship leads to a Jedi temple. Instead, inside is the wreck of an old pirate ship – one that maroons them in space with no way back home. Law plays the enigmatic rogue Jod Na Nawood, a swashbuckling space pirate who tags along with the kids in the hope that they will lead him to long-lost treasure, entering the story properly in the third episode of the series. “I took a little bit of Han Solo as inspiration,” he explains. “I adore that slightly cynical, world-weary swagger.” Jude Law is no stranger to big, family-friendly franchises. In recent years he has popped up as villain Yon-Rogg in comic book movie Captain Marvel, and as the young Albus Dumbledore in the Fantastic Beasts films. Law is the father of seven children, most recently with psychologist wife Phillipa Coan in 2023. Is he seeking out roles that his offspring can watch? “Sure, sure,” he says, “but it’s also just my curiosity as an actor. I like that range of parts, of moods and worlds. I think the older I get, the more in touch I am with the child who was in awe of cinema. I am stepping into films that speak to that child.” Skeleton Crew was explicitly inspired by the Amblin films of the 1980s, with a specific debt to Richard Donner’s big-hearted 1985 classic The Goonies. “That was an era where films were being made with kids as the main characters and the kids were taken seriously,” says co-showrunner Jon Watts, best known for directing the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies. “I got to spend some time with Richard Donner before he died,” adds Watts, “and he told me that when you cast a kid, you don’t cast them to play a role; you cast them because of who they are.” On screen, the kids are a motley crew of misfits. Wim’s timid best friend Neel is a blue alien elephant, portrayed via VFX by 13-year-old Robert Timothy Smith. Joining the boys are 14-year-old Kyriana Kratter and Ryan Kiera Armstrong, who play (respectively) the booksmart cyborg KB and the feisty, hoverbike-racing Fern. In person, the young actors are a whirlwind of teenage American excitability, prone to shrieks of laughter and dizzying non sequiturs (“what if they made a Neel cereal called Neelios?!” offers Smith at one point, unprompted). The shoot, which utilised a mix of practical sets and an immersive LED backdrop called The Volume, “felt like we were at Star Wars camp,” recalls Cabot-Conyers, breathless. View Green Video on the source website For Law, shepherding four hyperactive kids through the galaxy came naturally. “They taught me a lot about letting go and enjoying the playfulness,” he says, before adding that the trick on set was in striking a balance between “letting them know that there were demands on them, but also making them feel comfortable.” “I was starstruck!” giggles Armstrong. “I was like, ‘Oh my gosh, Jude Law is in the same room as me!’” “He was constantly professional but also making room for fun. Between takes, we would have thumb wars and stuff!”says Cabot-Conyers. Smith adds, “He was like a dad to us.” They may well need a protector now. It’s hard to deny that the Star Wars universe has become a hostile space in recent years. Many of the actors involved in 2017’s The Last Jedi, for instance, found themselves the targets of misogynistic and racist abuse from disgruntled fans; a trend that has continued across other projects. Was there any hesitation about bringing children into that world? “We absolutely want to make sure that the kids are protected,” says Watts, cautiously. “We’re keeping an eagle eye on all of it, to make sure they’re OK.” He will not reveal specifics, although the kids themselves are more forthcoming. “I’m going to stay off social media,” says Kratter. Such a divided fanbase speaks to a larger question about the future of Star Wars, a Disney franchise in flux. Since the release of 2019’s critically panned The Rise of Skywalker, an array of new films have been announced and cancelled. On Disney+, there is a scattershot feel to its range of Star Wars shows, many of which rely heavily on nostalgia. “I feel like Star Wars, for me, is something that I saw my parents really loving,” says Kratter, reflecting on what Star Wars means to kids her age. The hope from studio heads must be that Skeleton Crew can hook a whole new generation. “My dream is to have someone who has never seen Star Wars, and someone who knows everything about Star Wars to watch this together,” says Watts. “I think when Star Wars works well it makes you feel like you’re ten, no matter how old you are.” “The kids being the ones in jeopardy is so suited to Star Wars,” adds Law, who, for a moment, is also ten years old again. “I remember, as a child, watching Darth Vader say, ‘I am your father…’” He pauses, shaking his head at the memory. “I mean, my world fell apart.” There’s a hint of Darth Vader in Law’s Jod and his mysterious ability to use the Force. Law is reluctant to blow his character’s secret backstory, but is effusive on finally being able to put his best “using the Force” acting into action. “I’ve been practising that for 45 years,” he says, grinning. “And at last to have something float and move towards me – it was a dream come true!”
The star of stage and screen on his Vatican thriller — and paying to appear in the West End
Conclave is nominated for eight Oscars. Add it to your watchlist New film Conclave is a nail-biting political thriller set in the Vatican and based on Robert Harris’s bestseller. John Lithgow, best known for his turn in the 90s sitcom 3rd Rock from the Sun, plays the politicking Cardinal Tremblay, one of many ambitious candidates in the running to be elected as the new Pope. But are his methods more devilish than holy? Of course, 79-year-old Lithgow is no stranger to politics himself. Not only did he play Winston Churchill in The Crown, but in recent years he has been a vehement critic of Donald Trump… Conclave is a film rooted in the machinations of politics. Was that something that attracted you to it? I think so! I love the fact that it’s about political behaviour. You don’t see stories of politics told in such an extraordinary setting. It was uncanny how this social organism, just like every other political entity, divided itself into a left and right wing. We all have politics on the brain these days, but we don’t think much about the politics inside the Vatican. View oEmbed on the source website What is your own relationship with religion? I’m not religious. Both my mother and father were from serious churchgoing families, but it never stuck. Still, I have my own morality and I try to lead a good life. And I’m a great fan of religious art, of Bach’s masses and Mozart’s sacred music. There are also certain things about religious holidays that I find deeply moving. Cardinal Tremblay is a scheming, contradictory character. Did you base your performance on anyone in particular? I dove into shady parts of my own nature. To me, the film is about the conflict between faith and ambition. I consider myself a serious artist, but I’m still vulnerable to wanting to make more money in my next job. Right now I’m working in the theatre in London, in a wonderful play called Giant [in which he plays Roald Dahl]. But I’m basically paying to do the job. I head to the theatre every night on a London bus. And yet it’s my most precious job ever. I’m loving it! But you bet the next time I’ll want to make a big splash and get paid lots of money for it. You wrote satirical poems about Donald Trump during his first term. What do you fear most about his return to office? I really think that Donald Trump is a ghastly threat to America. His presidency hurt our country. In this past year I’ve worked in Italy, New Zealand, Amsterdam and London. Everywhere they were watching our election and were scared to death. Would you ever consider playing Trump on screen? I’ve been asked to do it a few times. I wasn’t interested. I feel the only way to play him is by being an outrageous caricature of him. I also think we need a little distance. Give me a few years! Do you think there is a limit to satire with a figure like Trump? No, I think it’s important to satirise him relentlessly. It really gets up his nose. But it’s difficult because it’s hard to change people’s minds in politics these days, and it’s hard to run against demagoguery and deceit, and a lack of conscience or remorse. You studied acting in London; you’ve played Winston Churchill in The Crown; you appeared on Celebrity Bake Off. Are you an Anglophile at heart? For sure! I had this curious upbringing. My father produced Shakespeare festivals in Ohio. So I’m this combination of Anglophile and American hayseed! A lot of people think I’m English, but I still have to go to my dialect coach when I play an English role. I have them pounding me about my vowel sounds! When I came to play Churchill, I had terrible doubts. But the cast embraced me. They had more confidence in me than I had in myself. You turned down the role of Frasier in Cheers. Do you ever think about what might have been? Sometimes. When it came up, it was my early years in Hollywood, and I’d had two Oscar nominations in two years. There was this chance to play a supporting role on Cheers and my agent and I agreed, “Let’s not think about episodic TV.” I can’t help but wonder about the road not travelled. But I have so few regrets. For one thing, I did do 3rd Rock from the Sun for six years, which was a glorious experience. Were you anxious about being typecast after 3rd Rock? Yes, but it wasn’t as much of an issue, because I was playing an alien who was trying to be human. It was a built-in antidote to typecasting. And one of the next things I did was the Trinity Killer on Dexter. And that was a deadly serious and terrifying role. You don’t do as much comedy as you used to. Is that a deliberate decision? Well, comedy doesn’t really come up! For one thing, I think when you get old, you’re not as funny. I’m sometimes asked if I have any interest in reviving 3rd Rock and I say, “No, that was a young man’s game.” Old age has been wonderful for me in the serious roles, because so many of them have cropped up and there’s so little competition! If you last as long as I have, you’re the go-to man…
John Lithgow turned down playing "ghastly threat" Donald Trump several times
The veteran actor spoke to Radio Times about his role in new movie Conclave and why he won't play Trump.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. New film Conclave is a nail-biting political thriller set in the Vatican and based on Robert Harris’s bestseller. John Lithgow, best known for his turn in the 90s sitcom 3rd Rock from the Sun, plays the politicking Cardinal Tremblay, one of many ambitious candidates in the running to be elected as the new Pope. But are his methods more devilish than holy? Of course, 79-year-old Lithgow is no stranger to politics himself. Not only did he play Winston Churchill in The Crown, but in recent years he has been a vehement critic of Donald Trump… Conclave is a film rooted in the machinations of politics. Was that something that attracted you to it? I think so! I love the fact that it’s about political behaviour. You don’t see stories of politics told in such an extraordinary setting. It was uncanny how this social organism, just like every other political entity, divided itself into a left and right wing. We all have politics on the brain these days, but we don’t think much about the politics inside the Vatican. What is your own relationship with religion? I’m not religious. Both my mother and father were from serious churchgoing families, but it never stuck. Still, I have my own morality and I try to lead a good life. And I’m a great fan of religious art, of Bach’s masses and Mozart’s sacred music. There are also certain things about religious holidays that I find deeply moving. Cardinal Tremblay is a scheming, contradictory character. Did you base your performance on anyone in particular? I dove into shady parts of my own nature. To me, the film is about the conflict between faith and ambition. I consider myself a serious artist, but I’m still vulnerable to wanting to make more money in my next job. Right now I’m working in the theatre in London, in a wonderful play called Giant [in which he plays Roald Dahl]. But I’m basically paying to do the job. I head to the theatre every night on a London bus. And yet it’s my most precious job ever. I’m loving it! But you bet the next time I’ll want to make a big splash and get paid lots of money for it. You wrote satirical poems about Donald Trump during his first term. What do you fear most about his return to office? I really think that Donald Trump is a ghastly threat to America. His presidency hurt our country. In this past year I’ve worked in Italy, New Zealand, Amsterdam and London. Everywhere they were watching our election and were scared to death. Would you ever consider playing Trump on screen? I’ve been asked to do it a few times. I wasn’t interested. I feel the only way to play him is by being an outrageous caricature of him. I also think we need a little distance. Give me a few years! Do you think there is a limit to satire with a figure like Trump? No, I think it’s important to satirise him relentlessly. It really gets up his nose. But it’s difficult because it’s hard to change people’s minds in politics these days, and it’s hard to run against demagoguery and deceit, and a lack of conscience or remorse. You studied acting in London; you’ve played Winston Churchill in The Crown; you appeared on Celebrity Bake Off. Are you an Anglophile at heart? For sure! I had this curious upbringing. My father produced Shakespeare festivals in Ohio. So I’m this combination of Anglophile and American hayseed! A lot of people think I’m English, but I still have to go to my dialect coach when I play an English role. I have them pounding me about my vowel sounds! When I came to play Churchill, I had terrible doubts. But the cast embraced me. They had more confidence in me than I had in myself. You turned down the role of Frasier in Cheers. Do you ever think about what might have been? Sometimes. When it came up, it was my early years in Hollywood, and I’d had two Oscar nominations in two years. There was this chance to play a supporting role on Cheers and my agent and I agreed, "Let’s not think about episodic TV." I can’t help but wonder about the road not travelled. But I have so few regrets. For one thing, I did do 3rd Rock from the Sun for six years, which was a glorious experience. Were you anxious about being typecast after 3rd Rock? Yes, but it wasn’t as much of an issue, because I was playing an alien who was trying to be human. It was a built-in antidote to typecasting. And one of the next things I did was the Trinity Killer on Dexter. And that was a deadly serious and terrifying role. You don’t do as much comedy as you used to. Is that a deliberate decision? Well, comedy doesn’t really come up! For one thing, I think when you get old, you’re not as funny. I’m sometimes asked if I have any interest in reviving 3rd Rock and I say, "No, that was a young man’s game." Old age has been wonderful for me in the serious roles, because so many of them have cropped up and there’s so little competition! If you last as long as I have, you’re the go-to man… The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Conclave is now showing in UK cinemas. If you're looking for something to watch tonight, check out our TV Guide and Streaming Guide or visit our Film hub for all the latest news. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
He likes hiding behind his alter ego, but will he be back in Ted Lasso?
Nick Mohammed is currently on stage in London's Soho Place theatre in A Christmas Carol (ish). Ted Lasso is on Apple TV+ – add it to your watchlist. What’s the view from your sofa? A relatively small TV! We don’t have a big wall-mounted flatscreen or anything. Our sofa is old and tatty. My wife [teacher Becka] and I have had it since we were renting. We keep meaning to replace it but my three children are still little; what with all the spillages, there’s not much point right now. But our small cosy living room is my favourite place. What have you enjoyed on TV recently? I just finished watching Industry series three, which I thought was phenomenal. The subject matter is money and greed and a lot of the characters aren’t explicitly likeable, but it’s so smartly done. It’s edge-of-your-sofa stuff. Do you watch much comedy? I tend to avoid comedy, partly because you don’t want to find yourself imitating it. It’s also what I do for a living, so I tend to prefer drama when chilling out – I get exposed to it enough during the day! You’re currently on stage in A Christmas Carol(ish) as your comic persona Mr Swallow. What is his take on Dickens? Basically, Santa is our Scrooge figure. He’s a mean Santa – miserly, doesn’t want to give presents away. So he cancels Christmas on Christmas Eve and is visited by three ghosts. Mr Swallow has got that end-of-the-pier feel to him. A bit of a has-been. The character originally came from me doing an impression of my teacher in Leeds when I was 14. It’s quite camp! Why did you decide to adopt an alter ego while performing? I like to preserve the mystery! It was also more of a nerves thing when I started doing live comedy. It was useful to hide behind a mask. Even with something like Taskmaster, which I did as myself, I still wanted to hide behind Dracula make-up! It helped me feel less self-conscious. Do fans of Ted Lasso turn up to your shows bamboozled by Mr Swallow? His appearance at this years Bafta Film Awards took a lot of people by surprise! Oh, 100 per cent. But it’s good! It means there’s a challenge there. You have to win them round. The Bafta gig was one of those things where I was like, “Well, I can’t say no to this opportunity, it’s too good to miss.” It was like playing a prank on a 1,000-person Hollywood crowd. I remember coming off stage thinking, “Oh, God.” I loved it but it was terrifying! You played Nate in Ted Lasso. How has the show’s success changed your life? What no one ever teaches you is what happens when something goes really well! I still feel like I’m dealing with that change in pace. Obviously there are tangible things such as getting stopped in the street every day. I’ve got a young family, so you do have to be mindful of that. As a father of three, how do you balance family life with this busy new stage of your career? Mostly it’s because my wife is phenomenal. We have to take every week as it comes. It’s only really when I’m filming that it becomes tricky because the hours are long and often I’ll leave before they’re up and will get back when they’re about to go to bed. Has Ted Lasso changed the kind of roles you’re being offered? It’s definitely changed things. I’m being offered more substantial film work now, some of which is tipping into drama. You realise how fickle the industry is, because I don’t know if my skills have changed. They’ve probably got worse! But suddenly you’re allowed to do this role or audition. There have been reports that Ted Lasso could be returning for a fourth series. What can you reveal about that? I know that there’s rumblings. All of us have been chatting. I think it all depends on what Jason Sudeikis [creator and star] wants to do. Everyone has said if there’s an idea that feels good, we would be all up for it. I would personally go back in a heartbeat!
John David Washington on The Piano Lesson: "The scab wounds of those times still affect us today"
"I just had to think about my grandparents, all my elders, to get into character."
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. For actor John David Washington, the son of double Oscar-winner Denzel, new Netflix movie The Piano Lesson is a family affair. The adaptation of August Wilson’s 1987 play is directed by his brother Malcolm, while his father and sister Katia are producers. And of course, Washington stars as the rambunctious Boy Willie, the youngest child of a 1930s African American family who are divided on the future of an inherited piano. As you might expect, the themes of family legacy were especially resonant for the Washingtons… You played Boy Willie in the Broadway version of The Piano Lesson. Was it a no-brainer that you would play him in the film? I don’t know if it was a no-brainer! I know I wanted to do it. My father has made it his mission to bring all of August Wilson’s work to the big screen, so I was very much aware of that. It became a real discussion as I was getting more comfortable in doing the play and it just went from there. Luckily, the producers of the film believed in me enough to do it! How involved was your father as a producer? My dad respected everybody’s process. I didn’t see him giving any notes. That being said, when he was on set we felt his presence. It was encouraging to see one of the GOATs [greatest of all time]! We had the greats – Michael Potts, Samuel L Jackson, Denzel Washington. When they’re on set you shut up and listen! But if they don’t have anything to say, then you’re doing something good. How have you found navigating the film industry as the son of Denzel Washington? My parents have always been supportive. My mum was a piano teacher at nine years old. My father attended Fordham University to study acting. They had this relentless pursuit of excellence in their artistry, so that’s all I knew. And they have both had a great influence on the kind of artist I’m trying to be. Has it been a challenge to step out of that shadow? My parents are a huge influence in my life, so they’ve encouraged me to be my own man. And I was already doing that by playing American football professionally. I earned a scholarship, I was a practice squad player for the St Louis Rams. My pursuit was to be my own person and I was encouraged by who I was raised by. What did you learn in American football that helped you as an actor? Sports is a results-based thing. It’s not as subjective as the arts, but there is a discipline. There is also a superstition that I’ve carried, inspired by the paranoia of spending every day thinking I was going to get cut from the National Football League. It’s why I don’t care what number I am on the call sheet; I’m always thinking, "I’ve got to prove myself every day." As you mentioned, your father wasn’t the only big name involved in The Piano Lesson — you co-starred with Samuel L Jackson in both the play and the film. What's he like to work with? He is an intimidating presence! But he’s welcoming if he respects you, and I felt like I had to earn that respect. He originated the role of Boy Willie in 1987 at Yale Repertory Theatre, so he has a connection to the character. Once I earned his trust, I felt emboldened to be my best self. How did you find playing that character on screen versus the stage? [My brother] Malcolm, the director, wanted to open up the play cinematically, so my responsibilities as an actor certainly changed. The movie is telling you what to look at; there are close-ups. Another difference is the nerves, because on stage the show must go on! If you mess up, you’ve got to keep going. In the 1930s, when The Piano Lesson is set, the Jim Crow laws enforced racial segregation in the southern states of the USA. How did you find getting in the head of a character from that time? Unfortunately, it was easy, because the scab wounds of those times still affect us today. I just had to think about my grandparents, all my elders, to get into character. You starred in Christopher Nolan's Tenet, one of the biggest films of 2020, released during the pandemic. How do you reflect on that experience now? It was kind of crazy that we put it out during those times. There was a lot of weird stuff going on in general. I was just desperate to work, as I didn’t think I was ever going to work again. I didn’t know what the world was going to look like. I’ll never forget it. I’ll always remember exactly where I was in 2020. You also turned 40 earlier this year. How have you found hitting that milestone? When I was 30, I had a midlife crisis. I was panicked! This one, when I hit 40, I was actually in the UK supporting my sister [Olivia] doing Slave Play [at the Noël Coward Theatre]. I felt an ease of comfort. I felt good about who I am, and I understood where I needed to go to continue to evolve as a person. So it wasn’t a crash landing like 30 was. This was more of a smooth take-off. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe now. The Piano Lesson is coming to Netflix on 22nd November. If you're looking for something to watch tonight, check out our TV Guide and Streaming Guide or visit our Film hub for all the latest news. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Ten Questions with John David Washington
The former American football player has joined the family business and is now working with the best — his dad
Add The Piano Lesson to your watchlist For actor John David Washington, the son of double Oscar-winner Denzel, new Netflix movie The Piano Lesson is a family affair. The adaptation of August Wilson’s 1987 play is directed by his brother Malcolm, while his father and sister Katia are producers. And of course, Washington stars as the rambunctious Boy Willie, the youngest child of a 1930s African American family who are divided on the future of an inherited piano. As you might expect, the themes of family legacy were especially resonant for the Washingtons… You played Boy Willie in the Broadway version of The Piano Lesson. Was it a no-brainer that you would play him in the film? I don’t know if it was a no-brainer! I know I wanted to do it. My father has made it his mission to bring all of August Wilson’s work to the big screen, so I was very much aware of that. It became a real discussion as I was getting more comfortable in doing the play and it just went from there. Luckily, the producers of the film believed in me enough to do it! View oEmbed on the source website How involved was your father as a producer? My dad respected everybody’s process. I didn’t see him giving any notes. That being said, when he was on set we felt his presence. It was encouraging to see one of the GOATs [greatest of all time]! We had the greats – Michael Potts, Samuel L Jackson, Denzel Washington. When they’re on set you shut up and listen! But if they don’t have anything to say, then you’re doing something good. How have you found navigating the film industry as the son of Denzel Washington? My parents have always been supportive. My mum was a piano teacher at nine years old. My father attended Fordham University to study acting. They had this relentless pursuit of excellence in their artistry, so that’s all I knew. And they have both had a great influence on the kind of artist I’m trying to be. Has it been a challenge to step out of that shadow? My parents are a huge influence in my life, so they’ve encouraged me to be my own man. And I was already doing that by playing American football professionally. I earned a scholarship, I was a practice squad player for the St Louis Rams. My pursuit was to be my own person and I was encouraged by who I was raised by. What did you learn in American football that helped you as an actor? Sports is a results-based thing. It’s not as subjective as the arts, but there is a discipline. There is also a superstition that I’ve carried, inspired by the paranoia of spending every day thinking I was going to get cut from the National Football League. It’s why I don’t care what number I am on the call sheet; I’m always thinking, “I’ve got to prove myself every day.” As you mentioned, your father wasn’t the only big name involved in The Piano Lesson — you co-starred with Samuel L Jackson in both the play and the film. What’s he like to work with? He is an intimidating presence! But he’s welcoming if he respects you, and I felt like I had to earn that respect. He originated the role of Boy Willie in 1987 at Yale Repertory Theatre, so he has a connection to the character. Once I earned his trust, I felt emboldened to be my best self. How did you find playing that character on screen versus the stage? [My brother] Malcolm, the director, wanted to open up the play cinematically, so my responsibilities as an actor certainly changed. The movie is telling you what to look at; there are close-ups. Another difference is the nerves, because on stage the show must go on! If you mess up, you’ve got to keep going. In the 1930s, when The Piano Lesson is set, the Jim Crow laws enforced racial segregation in the southern states of the USA. How did you find getting in the head of a character from that time? Unfortunately, it was easy, because the scab wounds of those times still affect us today. I just had to think about my grandparents, all my elders, to get into character. You starred in Christopher Nolan’s Tenet, one of the biggest films of 2020, released during the pandemic. How do you reflect on that experience now? It was kind of crazy that we put it out during those times. There was a lot of weird stuff going on in general. I was just desperate to work, as I didn’t think I was ever going to work again. I didn’t know what the world was going to look like. I’ll never forget it. I’ll always remember exactly where I was in 2020. You also turned 40 earlier this year. How have you found hitting that milestone? When I was 30, I had a midlife crisis. I was panicked! This one, when I hit 40, I was actually in the UK supporting my sister [Olivia]doing Slave Play [at the Noël Coward Theatre]. I felt an ease of comfort. I felt good about who I am, and I understood where I needed to go to continue to evolve as a person. So it wasn’t a crash landing like 30 was. This was more of a smooth take-off.
Michael Douglas on nepotism, playing an American legend and sex scenes
"It’s interesting with all the intimacy co-ordinators. It feels like executives taking control away from film-makers."
For his most recent role, Michael Douglas is playing Benjamin Franklin — writer, scientist, inventor and one of the founding fathers of the United States. Apple TV+ drama Franklin, however, explores one of the polymath’s lesser-known qualities: diplomacy. Specifically, his efforts in 1776, at the age of 70, to bring France into the American War of Independence — one of the great gambles of his career. It was a character that Douglas, at 79, could relate to. Both in their 70s, the two men are celebrities of their time and find themselves in uncharted territory… Your father was Kirk Douglas. Was it difficult to emerge from his shadow and make a name for yourself? Oh, very much so. I remember when I first started auditioning and they’d say, "That’s just like your dad, that’s amazing, just the same expression as your father". But the best part of being second-generation is you understand how the business operates. When I was growing up, I'd see Frank Sinatra, Tony Curtis and Gregory Peck in the house and you’d see their foibles and insecurities, just like real people. How do you feel about the recent spotlight on so-called "nepo babies" in Hollywood? I’m a little defensive about that. There was a big article about it in New York Magazine and I thought it was a snarky attack. Whether it’s a plumber or electrician or anyone else, I can’t think of a business where mothers and fathers don’t encourage their children to follow them into it. All three of my kids are actors and I wish them the best, because it’s not easy. As a star of erotic thrillers like Fatal Attraction and Basic Instinct, what’s your opinion on the discussion that sex scenes are disappearing from cinema? I’m past the age where I’ve got to worry about that! But it’s interesting with all the intimacy co-ordinators. It feels like executives taking control away from film-makers – but there have been some terrible faux pas and harassment. Sex scenes are like fight scenes, it’s all choreographed. In my experience you take responsibility as the man to make sure the woman is comfortable, you talk it through. You say, "OK, I’m gonna touch you here if that’s all right". It’s very slow but looks like it’s happening organically, which is hopefully what good acting looks like. You were diagnosed with oral cancer in 2010. How did that affect you — did that brush with mortality make you want to try new things? Probably… I think so – I don’t know! Maybe I should do some analysis! I just think that I’m 60 years into my career and sometimes you’re idle and you want to find another motivation to do something. Is that why you took on the role of Benjamin Franklin? I have never done a period picture before. People are surprised, but my whole career’s been pretty contemporary. I’m at a point in my life where I’m trying things I haven’t done before; I did Ant-Man because I had never done a green screen [special effects] picture before. And now this was a chance to do a period piece. I had always been a little nervous about how skinny my legs would look in the tights, but I read the script and said "Yeah!". Benjamin Franklin is an almost mythical figure for many Americans. Did that make it daunting to play him? I was probably most nervous about the practicalities. I took a good look at his image on the $100 bill and said, "Well, we’ve got a long way to go here for a resemblance…" We experimented with heavy make-up, but it was going to take a lot of time. So we simplified it. How would you describe him as a character? He was a Renaissance man, but he was also complicated. He was quite a philanderer. I wouldn’t have wanted to be his wife! He was quick to anger, with a quick wit. He was an extraordinary guy. What do you think Franklin would have made of US politics today? I think he would be extremely disappointed. He would say that we’d lost our way in the 247 years since we declared our independence. What would deeply concern him is that democracy is an endangered species. He talked a lot about the preciousness of democracy, how it has to be moulded and worked at constantly. How did you find the experience of working with green screen on Marvel’s Ant-Man? I found I had a newfound respect for actors who’ve been doing it for a while! It requires imagination and trust. You’ve got to express deft-like expressions when there’s nothing there and you’re not sure if you’re overacting or not! But that’s before you see it all come together. I found it fun but it’s sort of a prequel to AI. I’m glad I had the '60s, '70s and '80s in both lifestyle and career. This virtual stuff is a little overwhelming. I’m still barely using my iPhone. I look at my children as a higher form of human species! Now that you have ticked off a period piece and green screen, do you have any other unfulfilled ambitions? Professionally, no. I’m very proud of my career. In baseball terms, I’d say I’ve got a good batting average! In terms of what’s next: my wife Catherine [Zeta Jones] and I are empty nesters now, so I’d like to focus more on enjoying that. Franklin is streaming now on Apple TV+ with new episodes every Friday. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.