Sir David Suchet says Dickens’s A Christmas Carol offers hope in dark times
Nothing brings us together like a festive ghost story and, since its publication in 1843, Charles Dickens’s A Christmas Carol has never been out of print. It is the seasonal chiller. Sir David Suchet is delighted to be narrating it, alongside some of the author’s lesser-known tales, for a new podcast series. “These aren’t merely creepy stories — they’re ghostly reflections of the human soul.” We know about your devotion to Agatha Christie, but how well do you know Dickens? I don’t claim to be a Dickens expert, but he has always held up for me as the master of the English language. Reading these ghost stories has just been one of the most enjoyable and exciting pieces of audio work I’ve done. I’ve been blown away by how he writes. He’s very theatrical. Why do you think Dickens remains so prescient? I would say the same thing about Shakespeare and, if I’m allowed to, Agatha Christie. They all write about the human condition: love, jealousy, greed, hate, envy, crimes. They talk about poverty and society. They have managed to write about various aspects of our lives as human beings and make them into dramatic tales. That’s why they will never date. Why do you think that we enjoy being scared at Christmas? Well, if you go back to when you were a little child and somebody scared you, what was the first thing you did? You screamed and giggled. We love mystery, we love being scared. I mean, look at Doctor Who! We love to be taken outside of ourselves into realms that we don’t quite understand, and being a little bit frightened can be very enjoyable. Is A Christmas Carol the ultimate seasonal ghost story? A Christmas Carol is a work of genius. It’s just got everything. Not only the most extraordinary characters, but Scrooge himself going through that redemption... It’s what Christmas is all about, which is generosity, kindness, family if you have one, friends if you haven’t. Being social, being warm to each other. Ultimately, that’s the world that Ebenezer Scrooge enters and enjoys for the rest of his life. It’s a wonderful story. Would you like to meet Agatha Christie as your ghost of Christmas past? Agatha Christie has been very important in my life, because I never met her and I’ve always wanted to. At the same time, I’ve always wanted not to meet her because she was famously not pleased with any of her Poirots. I’ve often been asked what I would say to her if I met her. I might ask, “How do you think I did?” But I’m not sure whether I’d have the courage. What is a Suchet Christmas like? Our Christmasses have changed over the years. But our great tradition is that I always read the poem The Night before Christmas to the family. When I was filming once in America, I recorded it for my family in England. Wherever I am, down the phone, on Zoom or in person, if it’s possible, I will still do The Night before Christmas. I think I did it from Australia once. Our world today can be a little unkind — does Christmas shine a light of hope? Yes, I think that’s right. When the lights are put up at Christmas, you’re not aware of this heavy, heavy winter blackness. You can walk through London into the early hours and it’s gloriously lit up. I think it makes people feel good. I always feel more nervous when everything comes to an end, when everything is taken down, and people feel lonely again and bereft of this spirit of Christmas. It’s a time to share with family or friends, wherever you are. That’s what Christmas is about. Other festive podcasts... That’s Not How It Went Down View oEmbed on the source website Available from 15 December Was Scrooge a real person? The podcast debunking films based on a true story gets festive as it examines the 2017 biopic The Man Who Invented Christmas, about how Charles Dickens wrote A Christmas Carol. Katherine Ryan’s Christmas Intervention Available now on Audible Katherine Ryan assembles her family — and obligatory celebrity guests — to work their way through their worst Christmas disasters, and perhaps in the end, find some way to make it through the festive chaos this year. CBeebies Christmas Panto From 6 December on BBC Sounds You can’t have Christmas without a panto. If you want to keep the kids quiet on the drive to the relatives, this audio version of CBeebies’ 2025 production, Cinderella, may well be your fairy godmother. The Calm Christmas Podcast with Beth Kempton View oEmbed on the source website Available now Now in its fifth year, this seasonal guide to avoiding last-minute stress from self-help author Beth Kempton also includes diversions into the stories behind different traditions and general festive musings. The Uncanny Christmas Casebook View oEmbed on the source website Available from 23 December We can’t claim that Danny Robins is a modern-day MR James, but his tales of real-life brushes with the uncanny are perfect for wintry night chills. This Christmas he tests Diane Morgan’s claims of supernatural visitations. DAVID CRAWFORD
David Suchet reveals why Charles Dickens's A Christmas Carol remains so prescient – and what he'd say to Agatha Christie
As he voices a new Dickens podcast, David Suchet reflects on timeless storytelling and the hope Christmas brings.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Nothing brings us together like a festive ghost story and, since its publication in 1843, Charles Dickens’s A Christmas Carol has never been out of print. It is the seasonal chiller. Sir David Suchet is delighted to be narrating it, alongside some of the author’s lesser-known tales, for a new podcast series. “These aren’t merely creepy stories — they’re ghostly reflections of the human soul.” We know about your devotion to Agatha Christie, but how well do you know Dickens? I don’t claim to be a Dickens expert, but he has always held up for me as the master of the English language. Reading these ghost stories has just been one of the most enjoyable and exciting pieces of audio work I’ve done. I’ve been blown away by how he writes. He’s very theatrical. Why do you think Dickens remains so prescient? I would say the same thing about Shakespeare and, if I’m allowed to, Agatha Christie. They all write about the human condition: love, jealousy, greed, hate, envy, crimes. They talk about poverty and society. They have managed to write about various aspects of our lives as human beings and make them into dramatic tales. That’s why they will never date. Why do you think that we enjoy being scared at Christmas? Well, if you go back to when you were a little child and somebody scared you, what was the first thing you did? You screamed and giggled. We love mystery, we love being scared. I mean, look at Doctor Who! We love to be taken outside of ourselves into realms that we don’t quite understand, and being a little bit frightened can be very enjoyable. Is A Christmas Carol the ultimate seasonal ghost story? A Christmas Carol is a work of genius. It’s just got everything. Not only the most extraordinary characters, but Scrooge himself going through that redemption... It’s what Christmas is all about, which is generosity, kindness, family if you have one, friends if you haven’t. Being social, being warm to each other. Ultimately, that’s the world that Ebenezer Scrooge enters and enjoys for the rest of his life. It’s a wonderful story. Would you like to meet Agatha Christie as your ghost of Christmas past? Agatha Christie has been very important in my life, because I never met her and I’ve always wanted to. At the same time, I’ve always wanted not to meet her because she was famously not pleased with any of her Poirots. I’ve often been asked what I would say to her if I met her. I might ask, “How do you think I did?” But I’m not sure whether I’d have the courage. What is a Suchet Christmas like? Our Christmasses have changed over the years. But our great tradition is that I always read the poem The Night before Christmas to the family. When I was filming once in America, I recorded it for my family in England. Wherever I am, down the phone, on Zoom or in person, if it’s possible, I will still do The Night before Christmas. I think I did it from Australia once. Our world today can be a little unkind – does Christmas shine a light of hope? Yes, I think that’s right. When the lights are put up at Christmas, you’re not aware of this heavy, heavy winter blackness. You can walk through London into the early hours and it’s gloriously lit up. I think it makes people feel good. I always feel more nervous when everything comes to an end, when everything is taken down, and people feel lonely again and bereft of this spirit of Christmas. It’s a time to share with family or friends, wherever you are. That’s what Christmas is about. Charles Dickens' Ghost Stories narrated by Sir David Suchet is released weekly on all streaming platforms and Noiser. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Check out more of our Audio coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Hallie Rubenhold is taking on “Great Man” theory by presenting stories of real people — and her own family
Intimate Histories is on Monday-Friday at 11.45am on Radio 4. Add it to your collection Historian Hallie Rubenhold has the builders in. She and her lawyer husband Frank removed some woodchip paper in their London home, only for the ceiling to collapse. Their trusted decorator was able to pinpoint exactly when the unwanted decor had been put up from a 1991 newspaper lurking beneath. Despite the dust and rubble, this DIY disaster has made Rubenhold smile. It speaks to her core belief that history is all around us: in our homes, our heirlooms, our memories of deceased family and friends. Over the course of her career as a historian, Rubenhold has been determined to present the stories of “ordinary” people, not focus on national leaders, military heroes or monarchs – aka “Great Man” history, a theory attributed to the 19th-century philosopher Thomas Carlyle who argued that our shared history has been created by the superior intellect or great courage of individuals, pretty much all of them male. “Carlyle wasn’t the first person to conceptualise history as the great deeds of great men,” she says. “This is a very conservative, very Victorian, very inflexible way of viewing history. That’s why people have turned away – it feels distant, alien, unrelatable.” On the contrary, Rubenhold’s acclaimed books – including The Five, The Covent Garden Ladies and, most recently, Story of a Murder – are about the people who have been overlooked in history, primarily women. The Covent Garden Ladies was used as the inspiration for TV’s Harlots, for which she was historical consultant. Adapting her words in the interest of “drama” was a learning process, but she’s clear that the kind of factual inaccuracies witnessed in series like BBC One’s King & Conqueror (which she didn’t watch) are not acceptable: “A lot of the stuff that we’re seeing is an erasure of the reality of people’s lives. We erase racism and sexism in many cases, or we tone it down to make it more palatable for us. But what’s the point of even making a period drama if we only want to see another reflection of our modern selves on screen?” So, how do we engage younger students or people who feel disconnected from the “Great Man” approach? “I call it bottom-up history,” says Rubenhold. “What is the point of making kids learn when laws were enacted or wars were fought? Start with the human story and people will connect with it. It’s full of empathy and humanity. It’s real people’s history.” The five Radio 4 essays she’s presenting differ from her established work. Each has its roots in Rubenhold’s life. They are personal, autobiographical: from her thoughts on the vital role the past has in understanding our present, to her own home and the death of her mother. If any readers are inspired to find out more about their homes or families, where’s a good place to start? “Sites like Ancestry.com and Find My Past are fantastic. Other wonderful places online are the British Newspaper Archive or Old Bailey Sessions Papers. I found my great-grandmother in the Old Bailey Sessions Papers. I was absolutely shocked! She’d been falsely accused of using counterfeit coins when buying fish on Brick Lane. My cousin still doesn’t believe that it was her. You can find amazing things.” Given the current state of the world, does she believe we ever learn from history? Rubenhold pauses before answering, speaking of how everyone at her school was made to read George Orwell’s Animal Farm, Nineteen Eighty-Four, or both. “This enormous project to inoculate us against authoritarianism failed. We have had an obsession in this country with World War Two for so long, you’d think we’d have learnt so much and we have learnt nothing!” She pauses again. “Well maybe some of us have. Quite a lot of us are alive to this, perhaps more so than they would have been [in the build-up to the Second World War], and maybe that’s a good thing.” Like a collapsed ceiling, we may be teetering on the brink of destruction – but Hallie Rubenhold finds hope for humanity through our direct connection to our pasts.
Mark Radcliffe, a champion of folk music, says a new season is bringing the genre into the 21st century
The Folk Show with Mark Radcliffe is on Wednesday at 2pm on Radio 2. Add it to your collection. Cast aside clichéd preconceptions about folk music as the domain of bearded men drunk on real ale singing with a finger in one ear, or waif-like women in floaty dresses bewailing their latest abandonment. The always convivial Mark Radcliffe has real fire in his belly when it comes to folk music being unfairly dismissed as old-fashioned. “Folk music is not a museum piece. It’s a drop-in centre with a big archive! It moves forward because it must, because we are telling stories of now,” declares the Radio 2 and 6 Music presenter and there couldn’t be a better introduction to 21st Century Folk as it returns to Radio 2 for the third year. Each day this week on the Jeremy Vine show (Mon–Fri 12 noon), five artists commissioned to create a piece inspired by someone connected to the railways will debut their song, along with the person who inspired them. Meanwhile, Radcliffe has a train-song special in The Folk Show, and will be talking to folk star Peggy Seeger. His interview with Seeger is particularly apt, given this year’s theme is connected to Railway 200, celebrating two centuries of train transport in the UK. Back in 1958, Peggy worked on the first of the ground-breaking Radio Ballads with singer/songwriter Ewan MacColl (whom she later married) and documentary producer Charles Parker. It was called The Ballad of John Axon and told the story of a driver from Stockport, posthumously awarded the George Cross when he refused to abandon his runaway train, sacrificing his own life to save others. That’s a lot to live up to when it comes to a story but, as Radcliffe explains, listeners to these five new inspiring narratives are not going to be disappointed. There’s the tale of a man left as a two-week-old baby in a waiting room at Reading station; a railway worker who’s had a locomotive named after him to recognise his family’s 157 years of combined service; a female accountant-turned-steam-locomotive-fireman on the Llangollen Railway; and an 85-year-old man from the Windrush generation who still loves his shift in customer services at Elstree and Borehamwood station. Most remarkable of all is the story of Charlotte and David, on the surface just an ordinary couple who live near Bradford. As Radcliffe reveals, however, “Charlotte was considering taking her own life by a railway line and David was the train driver who stopped to help her. They are married now. This is like a film. It’s amazing! These songs deal with an issue, tell us something about the times we’re living in.” Those charged with bringing these true stories to life are the folk musicians Richard Thompson, Kate Rusby, Findlay Napier, Chris While and Julie Matthews (working in partnership) and Bill Ryder-Jones. Did any of them baulk about the amount of work involved? “No, I think they realise it’s what they got into folk music for, to tell stories. It’s one of the basic traditions of folk. And, let’s be honest, they get on daytime Radio 2, which doesn’t happen all the time.” Although, thankfully, not so dramatic or life-changing, Radcliffe has his own happy associations with train journeys. As children, his grandma Doris took him, his brother and sister on a daytrip from their home station in Bolton to Blackpool – except they ended up, several hours later, in Edinburgh. And he honeymooned with his wife, Bella, on a journey through the Rocky Mountains from Vancouver to Banff, which was the first time he’d ever slept on a train. He loved the experience. So, will this year’s 21st Century Folk season manage to pick up a new audience without derailing the purists? “I know I sound like I’m reading a BBC-prepared statement,” joshes Radcliffe, “but the phrase that always comes back to me is: ‘It’s a wholly noble endeavour.’ It brings folk music to the mainstream and breaks down prejudices. It brings stories of real lives, people whose lives may not necessarily be covered by the media, and it sets them to lovely music. I think it’s an entirely victimless crime!”
Comedian Laura Smyth was hard on her mum until she had kids herself — now she’s celebrating motherhood, whether it’s good, bad or funny
Your Mum is on Radio 4 on Wednesday at 6.30pm. Add it to your collection. One of celebrated paediatrician Dr Benjamin Spock’s top tips to parents was, “Trust yourself. You know more than you think you do.” Comedian and broadcaster Laura Smyth feels the same and in Your Mum, the series where she invites celebrities to discuss their relationships with their mothers, she aims to shake up our views on parenting. If you haven’t come across Smyth before, this is a gentle introduction to her comedy. It’s worth checking out her adults-only podcast Bang On It and her 2023 late-night stand-up special I Don’t Know What to Say on BBC Sounds, for which she won gold in the comedy category at last year’s Arias. The latter is a fierce, frank yet very funny account of her breast cancer diagnosis in 2021 at the age of 37, just after she’d left her career as an English teacher to become a comedian. She has three children, aged 22, nine and seven, and lives in London with her husband, musician Alastair Smyth. Her own mum, who was widowed at a young age with multiple children to raise, is not far away. And she gets the complexities of family dynamics. “We’re so hard on ourselves as mums, and we’re so hard on our own mums. They did their best. They were just humans; they were not gods.” Throw in social media and headline-grabbing TV shows, and it’s harder than ever to feel as if you are doing a “good job” as a parent. “I’m a bit sick of the navel-gazing culture we’re in at the minute,” says Smyth. “If you’re doom-scrolling, it’s all, ‘When were you last sad? Are you sad?’ And it’s full of people crying. I think if this is what we’re consuming, I really want my show to be the opposite of that. You can’t help but worry about your kids – and then you watch Adolescence! But as long as your house feels safe, emotionally, you can’t go far wrong.” Like most of us, her teenage years involved conflicts with her own mum, but now she’s a parent herself they rub along very well. “I think there were generations of women brought up with such shame: the things that were buried; the things they were trying to keep us safe from – even if that came out as them being hyper-critical, or not being open, or not being honest, or feeling like you couldn’t approach them. Have some compassion – we are all fallible.” This may sound rather heavy, but Your Mum is loaded with laughter. The focus is on why it’s OK to say, “I’m not a great mum. Aren’t kids difficult? Didn’t our mums go through it?” Smyth believes that “Comedy’s a kindness. I want anybody who listens to it to feel seen, to think, ‘Thank God, I am not alone,’ or ‘Cor, my mum wasn’t as bad as that!’” Each episode has Smyth joined by two guests to explore the multiple facets of motherhood and to share stories about their own mums. These whistle-blowing offspring include Russell Kane, Thanyia Moore, Arlene Phillips and Iain Stirling. At the end of each show, Smyth asks them to share something about their mums that they are thankful for, to emphasise that this is a celebration as much as a mickey-take. This all went to plan until she asked her comedy hero, Jo Brand. Smyth confesses that she was akin to a “teenage Tigger” just having Brand in the studio and added her own personal thanks to Brand’s mum, pointing out that if she hadn’t raised her the way she did then Smyth would never have had a career in comedy. Brand’s response to this high praise? A noise not dissimilar to someone being sick. But as Smyth notes, “Her mum was rebellious and stood up for what was right. This explains Jo Brand. It gave her all the confirmation she needed.” And what do her own children make of having a mum who’s a comic? Not a lot, it turns out. Her son was quick to point out recently the reason why other parents on the school run make a beeline for his dad: “He writes good songs, and you write bad jokes.”
As Jan Etherington’s marital comedy returns after ructions over a secret son at the end of series five, we put the compatibility of its stars, Joanna Lumley and Roger Allam, to the test
Conversations from a Long Marriage is on Radio 4 on Monday at 2.15pm. Add it to your collection now What would you say is the secret to a long marriage? Roger Probably a sense of humour. Laughing and giving each other room to be elsewhere and do things on your own or with other people, not having to be together all the time. Joanna A sense of humour helps navigate life full-stop. But complementary personalities can be a symbiotic yin and yang in a marriage. What is your best trait? Roger It’s a form of torture answering this! What is my best trait? Probably my self-delusion that I look like Cary Grant, but my bad eyesight means I don’t notice that I don’t. Joanna He’s a sensational actor, with one of the best voices you could hear and he’s heaven to work with. Roger Joanna has so many good traits. Perhaps her unfailing courtesy to everyone she meets – and also her interest and curiosity about the world. What is your worst trait? Roger I can be bad-tempered sometimes. My worst trait is getting irritable when being interviewed about things! Joanna I seem to be a bit of a butterfly who flits from one thing to the next. Roger Joanna’s worst trait? No idea. There’s not a list. It seems to me she undervalues her great skill as an actor. How would you deal with a serious betrayal of trust? Roger I don’t know. It would depend. I mean, the presence of this son, it’s not something that he’s kept hidden from her – it’s a huge surprise and shock for him as well. There’s huge anxiety on both sides about destabilising what is a long and happy marriage. If it was something really treacherous, if he’d known about the son but kept it secret, then I think it would be completely justified for her to walk out. I wouldn’t like to say if Joanna is like this in real life. Joanna I think he’s more trustworthy than she is – she’s definitely more economical with the truth. But I don’t think either of [our characters] has ever done anything particularly bad – there’s been no infidelity, I am sure of it. She sands over her tracks, certainly. Roger It would depend upon the nature of the betrayal. If it was something really cruel, that’s a different matter to if it’s something that happened when we weren’t together. That’s rather different. What would be Joanna’s luxury item on Desert Island Discs? Roger Oooh, I really don’t know. Gosh. Maybe she’d take her cleansing routine. Joanna I’ve done Desert Island Discs twice so my luxuries are on the record, as it were. [They were a painting of her family and friends by the artist John Ward and the film, Monsieur Hulot’s Holiday.] As I imagine I’ve got those luxuries stashed on my island already, I’d take another film – but I don’t know what. What would be Roger’s luxury item then? Joanna I’d like to think he’d take me, but he wouldn’t. He might want to take his dog, but he wouldn’t be allowed. So, it would be something fantastically lazy like a big, comfortable chair with a huge screen with football on it. Or some good wine. Roger Could I take a good cooker? A log-burning one. I do most of the cooking and I tend to listen to music when I’m doing it. What’s your studio snack of choice? Roger Joanna’s would be a carrot baton or a fingernail, I think. Joanna Having been a model in the 60s, I can go a whole day without anything except a cup of builder’s tea. I don’t like eating in the studio and I don’t like eating at work. I don’t like someone eating while they’re on the phone to me and one of the reasons I don’t love going to the cinema is the general rustling, eating and slurping that goes on. I don’t know if you’ve noticed on Gogglebox, but they always seem to have food and drink in front of them and that seems very odd to me. I’ve been on Gogglebox, but that’s not the way I live. I don’t ever yearn for snacks. Roger I try to avoid biscuits, but sometimes I fail, so if it was a biscuit, it would be a dark chocolate and stem ginger one. Joanna Roger has to eat at certain times. He has to have his coffee at a certain time. He’s very regimented in that respect. Who corpses the most? Roger Oh, I think we’re tied on that really. I wouldn’t say one of us corpses more than the other. Joanna Roger doesn’t really and I hardly ever do. We don’t have time – we do one episode in a morning and one in the afternoon so we must rattle along. Corpsing comes from the fear that you’re going to get it wrong, live, in the theatre. I like to think that we are both quite professional. What’s your favourite scene? Roger I can’t remember anything about the series. Joanna’s much better at this than me. You see I can’t remember at all. It all goes out of my head. We meet for three days and do the whole thing. And it’s gone, you know. I love doing it, I love seeing everyone and it’s the most enormous fun, but I certainly don’t know what Joanna’s favourite scene might be. I can’t put my finger on one, I’m afraid. My finger is unavailable!
Joanna Lumley, Roger Allam on Conversations from a Long Marriage, bad habits and Desert Island luxuries
Lumley and Allam are back to star in the sixth season of the radio series from Jan Etherington.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. What would you say is the secret to a long marriage? Roger: "Probably a sense of humour. Laughing and giving each other room to be elsewhere and do things on your own or with other people, not having to be together all the time." Joanna: "A sense of humour helps navigate life full-stop. But complementary personalities can be a symbiotic yin and yang in a marriage." What is your best trait? Roger: "It’s a form of torture answering this! What is my best trait? Probably my self-delusion that I look like Cary Grant, but my bad eyesight means I don’t notice that I don’t." Joanna: "He’s a sensational actor, with one of the best voices you could hear and he’s heaven to work with." Roger: "Joanna has so many good traits. Perhaps her unfailing courtesy to everyone she meets – and also her interest and curiosity about the world." What is your worst trait? Roger: "I can be bad-tempered sometimes. My worst trait is getting irritable when being interviewed about things!" Joanna: "I seem to be a bit of a butterfly who flits from one thing to the next." Roger: "Joanna’s worst trait? No idea. There’s not a list. It seems to me she undervalues her great skill as an actor." How would you deal with a serious betrayal of trust? Roger: "I don’t know. It would depend. I mean, the presence of this son, it’s not something that he’s kept hidden from her – it’s a huge surprise and shock for him as well. There’s huge anxiety on both sides about destabilising what is a long and happy marriage. If it was something really treacherous, if he’d known about the son but kept it secret, then I think it would be completely justified for her to walk out. I wouldn’t like to say if Joanna is like this in real life." Joanna: "I think he’s more trustworthy than she is – she’s definitely more economical with the truth. But I don’t think either of [our characters] has ever done anything particularly bad – there’s been no infidelity, I am sure of it. She sands over her tracks, certainly." Roger: "It would depend upon the nature of the betrayal. If it was something really cruel, that’s a different matter to if it’s something that happened when we weren’t together. That’s rather different." What would be Joanna’s luxury item on Desert Island Discs? Roger: "Oooh, I really don’t know. Gosh. Maybe she’d take her cleansing routine." Joanna: "I’ve done Desert Island Discs twice so my luxuries are on the record, as it were. [They were a painting of her family and friends by the artist John Ward and the film, Monsieur Hulot’s Holiday.] As I imagine I’ve got those luxuries stashed on my island already, I’d take another film – but I don’t know what." What would be Roger’s luxury item then? Joanna: "I’d like to think he’d take me, but he wouldn’t. He might want to take his dog, but he wouldn’t be allowed. So, it would be something fantastically lazy like a big, comfortable chair with a huge screen with football on it. Or some good wine." Roger: "Could I take a good cooker? A log-burning one. I do most of the cooking and I tend to listen to music when I’m doing it." What’s your studio snack of choice? Roger: "Joanna’s would be a carrot baton or a fingernail, I think." Joanna: "Having been a model in the '60s, I can go a whole day without anything except a cup of builder’s tea. I don’t like eating in the studio and I don’t like eating at work. I don’t like someone eating while they’re on the phone to me and one of the reasons I don’t love going to the cinema is the general rustling, eating and slurping that goes on. I don’t know if you’ve noticed on Gogglebox, but they always seem to have food and drink in front of them and that seems very odd to me. I’ve been on Gogglebox, but that’s not the way I live. I don’t ever yearn for snacks." Roger: "I try to avoid biscuits, but sometimes I fail, so if it was a biscuit, it would be a dark chocolate and stem ginger one." Joanna: "Roger has to eat at certain times. He has to have his coffee at a certain time. He’s very regimented in that respect." Who corpses the most? Roger: "Oh, I think we’re tied on that really. I wouldn’t say one of us corpses more than the other." Joanna: "Roger doesn’t really and I hardly ever do. We don’t have time – we do one episode in a morning and one in the afternoon so we must rattle along. Corpsing comes from the fear that you’re going to get it wrong, live, in the theatre. I like to think that we are both quite professional." What’s your favourite scene? Roger: "I can’t remember anything about the series. Joanna’s much better at this than me. You see, I can’t remember at all. It all goes out of my head. "We meet for three days and do the whole thing. And it’s gone, you know. I love doing it, I love seeing everyone and it’s the most enormous fun, but I certainly don’t know what Joanna’s favourite scene might be. I can’t put my finger on one, I’m afraid. My finger is unavailable!" The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Conversations From a Long Marriage season 6 starts at 2:15pm on Monday 19th May on BBC Radio 4. Check out more of our Audio coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Five years after the Covid lockdown, Catherine Carr reveals the impact on children who missed the end of primary school
Lockdown's Legacy: the Children is on Radio 4 at 4pm on Monday. Add it to your collection now "We were like ten-year-olds trapped in 13-year-olds’ bodies,” says a teenager from Northern Ireland. Now in Year 11 and preparing for his GCSEs, he’s reflecting upon being part of the swathe of children who never experienced their final months at primary school because of the Covid-19 pandemic. Five years on from the first UK lockdown, which was imposed on 23 March 2020, a new Radio 4 series highlights the impact upon three groups of people: children, teachers and medics. Catherine Carr narrates the episodes and also conducted interviews with the teenagers. She has form in creating audio that allows people to tell their stories in their own way, including Where Are You Going?, which was named as RT’s Podcast of the Year in 2023, and last year’s Radio 4 series About the Boys on the challenges facing young men. She and the production team are not making a sweeping generalisation that these then Year 6 children were the most badly affected group in the country, but there is a logic in selecting them: “They really had a formative part of adolescence hollowed out. All those experiences like texting your mate and meeting them in town; learning to use the bus; having your first crush and acting on it. Their confidence and social skills were marked and it’s definitely something they’re talking about here.” Before any cynical adults default to that pejorative word “snowflake”, consider this. Professor Lucy Easthope, who specialises in emergency planning, risk and hazard, noted that it’s as if they have been through a natural disaster and we haven’t given them the time to tell us how they feel. Their opportunity has come now, though, and Carr has been blown away by what they have shared. This is a richly textured piece of audio, including extracts from home videos taken in lockdown. “This might include learning to ride a unicycle, getting into birdwatching, having terrible haircuts, being made-over by their sisters because they were so bored, or one boy standing in his sitting room pretending to swim because he missed swimming. It pulls you back to that weird time,” she explains. She was also struck by the language that they use to describe lockdown. “Don’t forget these Year 6s, now Year 11s, are TikTok natives. They self-diagnose and co-opt phrases like, ‘Yeah, I’ve got social anxiety.’ And maybe they did, but they’re fluent in that. It’s part of living on your phone during lockdown.” But she was equally struck by the deep fear that they all shared, especially about their family members dying. “We mustn’t forget that kids went through what adults went through. A lot of them said they were frightened by what they saw online. I asked them if they’d expressed that they were frightened and they said, ‘No, because I didn’t want anyone to worry.’” Even now, five years on, they can still recite the public-health messaging off pat. “What’s unsettling to me as an adult,” says Carr, “is hearing this generation so fluent in the lockdown language of distancing and masks and vulnerability, and all those other words that we never knew before. That’s part of their native language.” Amid reflections on the shared fear, however, came some truly uplifting narratives – such as the girl who kept a diary and wrote a letter to her future self (pictured above left) that ends with the simple statement of “appreciate people and being able to leave the house”, or the young lad who ran away from home and got into trouble with the police. He tells Carr how he found his salvation through art, and he now plans to become a graphic designer, has a successful Instagram account and already does work for people on commission. So, what does Carr predict for the future of these children? “I’m not a psychologist, but I do wonder if, in a few years’ time, there’s another wave of upset coming when they put things together – same for those who were freshers or taking A-levels [in lockdown]. As adults, we should be mindful that they haven’t yet made sense of it and they’re trying to, and that breaks my heart.” Radio 4’s Lockdown’s Legacy season begins with Waiting for Covid (Sat 8.00pm) and continues on Monday with lockdown-focused programming throughout the day
How Namulanta Kombo’s idea of writing a letter to her daughter became a global hit podcast
Dear Daughter: Stars is available to listen to on BBC Sounds. Add it to your collection Back in 2021, Namulanta Kombo was working in the development sector of her home country of Kenya and a mother of two children (now eight and four), when she heard the BBC World Service promote a competition for fresh ideas for podcasts from people with no broadcast experience. She’d never won anything before apart from small trinkets in lucky dips and so, with little hope but plenty of enthusiasm, she submitted her idea for a series based upon a very personal project: building a “handbook for life” for her daughter from letters she wrote to her. A year later and Kombo’s show, Dear Daughter, picked up prizes for Best Family Podcast and Podcast of the Year at the 2022 British Podcast Awards, with the judges stating that this was “an excellent example of how one simple idea can have such universal appeal… such a powerful, emotional and creative listen.” Not bad going for a novice and Kombo is the first to acknowledge how extraordinary this rapid career trajectory has been. “It was a huge change in my life, but I was ready to make space for this opportunity because I really, really wanted it, most of all for my daughter.” In essence, Dear Daughter invites guests to read out a letter they have written to their daughter, son, or important young person in their lives. There are no hard-and-fast rules, but the aim is to share the experiences and advice that they would like to pass on. This has included a widower navigating solo parenting, a mother fleeing genocide in Rwanda and some top tips from a young cousin on the peer-pressure perils of buying a cheap thong. It doesn’t have to be a life-changing or momentous event to pass muster. In fact, the key to Dear Daughter’s global success has been its relatable content. “There are so many stories, so many experiences. People are living very similar lives, just in different contexts and countries,” Kombo explains. The latest series marks something of a shift. All the letters come from individuals who are “stars” in their fields, such as Bridgerton actress Adjoa Andoh, Australian footballer and captain of West Ham United’s women’s team Katrina Gorry and the award-winning Lebanese journalist Baria Alamuddin (who also happens to be George Clooney’s mother-in-law). It’s not the first time that Kombo has interviewed celebrity guests. TV cook Nadiya Hussain appeared last year with a letter she’d written to her 13-year-old daughter on how not to let the world hold her back. And the writer Isabel Allende read out a poignant letter to her daughter in 2023 and spoke of letter-writing as “an art that is being lost”. Kombo agrees with this sentiment, to a certain degree. “On paper I feel like I’m able to let my words flow easier. A lot more emotion goes into it. I have never edited a letter. I’ve never had to. Can you believe it? I’ve never had to go back, cross something out and rewrite it. I will stop writing at the end of a page or two. It’s cathartic.” Kombo acknowledges that an element of fear as a new mother lay behind her first deciding to write to her daughter: what if she were to die before her child grew up? As a novice podcast host, she had to confront this head on in the very first programme when she spoke with an American woman whose mother had died when she was young. “She had very little information. That’s such a tragedy, to not know some key things. Women are custodians of their children’s childhoods.” Does this mean that men or other relatives or even family friends are not up to the job? Does it always have to be a mother-daughter thing? “Not at all,” she says. “They are as much a part of their childhood. It’s a collaborative thing. It’s important for my children to have a full picture of who they were when they look back, but also to feel valued for who they are right now. So, I ask everyone to contribute to that.” Time to take out that pen and get writing…
Playwright Roy Williams is giving the Jazz Age classic a fresh spin — but he never imagined he’d secure his dream cast
Gatsby in Harlem is on Radio 3 at 8pm on Sunday 12 January. Add it to your collection now When playwright Roy Williams was approached by Radio 3 to dramatise F Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby, it was a no-brainer. But the London-born creator of the acclaimed stage-play trilogy Death of England and Radio 4’s long-running dramas The Interrogation and Faith, Hope and Charity was also clear that he wanted to bring something fresh to the text and take a different view of the complexities of the American Dream. Naturally, he reread the novel, but an idea had already started to grow: “I instinctively knew how I would like to tell it,” he says. “I wasn’t interested in doing literally the same story that’s been done so many times.” So, what’s different about this audio dramatisation? Instead of being set in Long Island, New York, it’s based in Harlem and, while all the characters remain painfully aspirational and emotionally broken, they are black rather than white. Williams did exhaustive research on the societal status of African-Americans in the 1920s and leans heavily into the culture of the Harlem Renaissance, which grew out of so many people leaving the southern states to get away from the Jim Crow laws that enforced racial segregation. Williams also presented the production company, Granny Eats Wolf, with an ambitious wish-list of young British talent for the cast: Ncuti Gatwa (the current Doctor Who) as Jay Gatsby, Gugu Mbatha-Raw (Loki and Surface) as Daisy Buchanan, and Malachi Kirby (Roots, Small Axe and Steven Knight’s upcoming drama A Thousand Blows) as Nick Carraway. “When we sat down to discuss the casting, honest to God, they were my choices, but I never thought that we were going to get them,” admits Williams. “When the email came through saying they’d all agreed, I couldn’t believe it!” While Gatsby claims the (tarnished) glory with his name in the title, both in the F Scott Fitzgerald novel and in this reworking of the story, it’s Nick Carraway who holds the narrative, and Malachi Kirby was in the studio more than any other member of the cast. “It’s Carraway who drives it and I really wanted to reflect that in my adaptation,” says Williams. “We took about a week to record it and Ncuti and Gugu’s parts were done in two days, but Malachi was there all week. He’s such a brilliant young actor, they all were, and it’s such a treat having cracking young black performers showing up for a BBC radio drama. These guys are seriously in demand. And they’re all obscenely nice people!” While the cast may be pleasant, listeners need to know that some of the language isn’t, including use of the “n” word. Did Williams feel comfortable using this racial slur? “I’m never OK using that word, but it was a necessity to highlight what it meant and still means to be a black American. I couldn’t ignore it, and I made a point of whenever I used the ‘n’ word, it wasn’t a white person saying it, it was a black character in the drama. It was a challenge for me to address the degrees of racism within black people rather than just the obvious [white prejudice], which is still there in the drama.” This adaptation is a celebration of black writing and acting, but does Williams believe enough progress is being made in the UK right now? “I think we’re making very tiny steps, but I don’t think we’re in a period where we can all pat ourselves on the back. There’s still plenty more to do. There’s more complexity that needs to be found. It’s about finding a depth, the dirt beneath the fingernails, regardless of whatever world you want to write about. Find the depth, find the layers and that’s where you’ll find a good story.” And does he see any connection between Gatsby’s world of the 1920s and 21st-century US politics? Is the American Dream still alive and kicking? “As much as I was saddened by the [recent presidential] election result, I did find it interesting – particularly how many women and people of colour voted for Trump. In spite of everything, they still voted for him. They still want a piece of the American Dream and believed that he’s the one that can help them get it. It’s so ingrained in their psyche.” Williams has created something very special: a smart, empathetic and emotional reworking of a classic text. He has dug deep, found those layers and given his own unique take on the American Dream.
Roy Williams on revamping The Great Gatsby with Ncuti Gatwa: 'I didn't want to repeat the same story'
The playwright spoke to Radio Times about his new BBC Radio 3 audio drama.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. When playwright Roy Williams was approached by Radio 3 to dramatise F Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby, it was a no-brainer. But the London-born creator of the acclaimed stage-play trilogy Death of England and Radio 4’s long-running dramas The Interrogation and Faith, Hope and Charity was also clear that he wanted to bring something fresh to the text and take a different view of the complexities of the American Dream. Naturally, he reread the novel, but an idea had already started to grow: "I instinctively knew how I would like to tell it," he says. "I wasn’t interested in doing literally the same story that’s been done so many times." So, what’s different about this audio dramatisation? Instead of being set in Long Island, New York, it’s based in Harlem and, while all the characters remain painfully aspirational and emotionally broken, they are black rather than white. Williams did exhaustive research on the societal status of African-Americans in the 1920s and leans heavily into the culture of the Harlem Renaissance, which grew out of so many people leaving the southern states to get away from the Jim Crow laws that enforced racial segregation. Williams also presented the production company, Granny Eats Wolf, with an ambitious wish-list of young British talent for the cast: Ncuti Gatwa (the current Doctor Who) as Jay Gatsby, Gugu Mbatha-Raw (Loki and Surface) as Daisy Buchanan, and Malachi Kirby (Roots, Small Axe and Steven Knight’s upcoming drama A Thousand Blows) as Nick Carraway. "When we sat down to discuss the casting, honest to God, they were my choices, but I never thought that we were going to get them," admits Williams. "When the email came through saying they’d all agreed, I couldn’t believe it!" While Gatsby claims the (tarnished) glory with his name in the title, both in the F Scott Fitzgerald novel and in this reworking of the story, it’s Nick Carraway who holds the narrative, and Malachi Kirby was in the studio more than any other member of the cast. "It’s Carraway who drives it, and I really wanted to reflect that in my adaptation," says Williams. "We took about a week to record it and Ncuti and Gugu’s parts were done in two days, but Malachi was there all week. He’s such a brilliant young actor, they all were, and it’s such a treat having cracking young black performers showing up for a BBC radio drama. "These guys are seriously in demand. And they’re all obscenely nice people!" While the cast may be pleasant, listeners need to know that some of the language isn’t, including use of the 'n' word. Did Williams feel comfortable using this racial slur? "I’m never OK using that word, but it was a necessity to highlight what it meant and still means to be a black American. I couldn’t ignore it, and I made a point of whenever I used the 'n' word, it wasn’t a white person saying it, it was a black character in the drama. It was a challenge for me to address the degrees of racism within black people rather than just the obvious [white prejudice], which is still there in the drama." This adaptation is a celebration of black writing and acting, but does Williams believe enough progress is being made in the UK right now? "I think we’re making very tiny steps, but I don’t think we’re in a period where we can all pat ourselves on the back. There’s still plenty more to do. There’s more complexity that needs to be found. It’s about finding a depth, the dirt beneath the fingernails, regardless of whatever world you want to write about. Find the depth, find the layers and that’s where you’ll find a good story." And does he see any connection between Gatsby’s world of the 1920s and 21st-century US politics? Is the American Dream still alive and kicking? "As much as I was saddened by the [recent presidential] election result, I did find it interesting – particularly how many women and people of colour voted for Trump. In spite of everything, they still voted for him. They still want a piece of the American Dream and believed that he’s the one that can help them get it. It’s so ingrained in their psyche." Williams has created something very special: a smart, empathetic and emotional reworking of a classic text. He has dug deep, found those layers and given his own unique take on the American Dream. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Gatsby in Harlem premieres on BBC Radio 3 at 8pm on Sunday 12th January 2025. Check out more of our Radio coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Uncanny host Danny Robins revisits the gripping mystery of a Scottish bothy — the perfect Christmas ghost story
Uncanny is on BBC Sounds from Friday. Add it to your collection It’s a dark and stormy night. Two men have hiked a gruelling nine miles in gale-force winds and torrential rain to reach a ruined cottage, or bothy, in the Scottish Highlands. But will Luibeilt Lodge offer them sanctuary or an encounter with unimaginable terror? One of the men has been here twice before. The first time, in 1973, he encountered a table set for Christmas dinner but with no one there to eat, let alone cook it. This unsettling scenario soon unfolded into a proper horror story, complete with phantom footsteps, books leaping off the shelves and flying ice axes. On his second visit there was an ominous message on the wall that read, “Don’t sleep in this house”. Uncanny will be available on Friday on BBC Sounds (and will be repeated on Christmas Day on Radio 4) with a follow-up to the 2021 story that gripped its legion of loyal listeners: the tale of climber Phil MacNeill, whose life was changed for ever after that first night in the bothy over 50 years ago. This time he’s brought Uncanny series host Danny Robins with him. There are no spoilers here, but Robins does give a hint of unpredictable goings-on. “Some new witnesses have come forward – other climbers who have had some very similar and also intriguingly different experiences,” he says. “The building is just a shell now, there’s not even a roof. It was a strange night… but we’ve learnt a lot about the people who were living in that house, going back a few generations. It’s one of those stories that keeps on giving, keeps on growing, unfolding itself.” Contrary to popular opinion, the Victorians and Edwardians didn’t invent the festive ghost story, despite the creative output of Charles Dickens and MR James. They’ve been part of our culture since the oral tradition began. What is it about this time of year that encourages a blood-chilling tale? “I think that ghost stories offer great comfort,” says Robins. “It’s the darkest point of the year, you are looking for light. I think they offer this amazing hope that there could be life after death. And it’s a very positive message, that sense of what we need at Christmas, with the idea of regeneration and rebirth. “It’s that time of the year when we have room for stories, isn’t it? It’s a time when we’re together. We’ve always enjoyed sharing stories, it’s how we communicate. And I think we just love mysteries. It’s why we watch an Agatha Christie at Christmas-time. And a ghost story is the ultimate mystery, the one we will never solve, the whodunnit where you never get the ‘dunnit’ bit. I hope that Uncanny is now a little part of that kind of Christmas canon.” So, does he entertain his own family over the festive period with spooky tales? “I’m banned from telling any ghost stories in my house! My wife and my children are terrified of ghosts and hate what I do and absolutely won’t let me. I showed my wife a script I’d written the other day, and she reluctantly read it, and then she woke in the middle of the night with nightmares, screaming. And then the next night when I came home, she had all the lights on in the house.” For Robins, however, his love of the supernatural dates back to his childhood. “I just connected with ghost stories as a kid. I remember reading those books from the Usborne World of the Unknown series and the pictures really stuck in my head – a monk-like figure standing on the stairs at Raynham Hall [in Norfolk] or the woman who alleged her leg had spontaneously combusted. I’ve said it before but, growing up, some people find God, but I found ghosts.” Regulars will know that each episode of Uncanny asks listeners whether they sit on Team Believer or Team Sceptic. Where does Robins reside, especially after this recent experience at Luibeilt Lodge? Has he ever seen a ghost? “No. I feel a strange mix of disappointment and relief about that. The more people tell me their stories, the more I think I lack the courage to cope with what seeing a ghost would entail. If there’s one common point about all their tales, it’s that they’ve been in a state of transition: an adolescent, a university student, grieving, coming out of a relationship, just moved house. “And I think a sceptic would say, well, maybe that’s just because you’re more anxious, that you’re unsettled, you’re imagining things. But I think a believer could look at that and say maybe these are the moments when we are more open to things, when we’ve removed ourselves from all the kind of white noise and static.” It should be made clear that while these true-life tales are certainly entertaining, Uncanny never mocks those sharing often deeply personal stories, nor does it rely upon the night-vision goggles, mediums or electromagnetic field meters commonly used in other paranormal shows. Robins wouldn’t have a programme without his contributors and shows them genuine respect. He’s also conscious that the spirits people say they see are never those of their deceased loved ones. He treads carefully, while making equal space for those who prefer scientific to magical thinking. “Those two groups come together and enjoy these stories in their own way. I think Christmas is a time of bringing people together. You know, that classic thing of the two armies playing football in no man’s land in the First World War? And in this horribly divided world we live in, you’d like to think that you can bring a little bit of togetherness and unity at Christmas. It does seem to me as if ghost stories do that. Whether you’re a believer or a sceptic, it’s just a bloody good mystery, basically, isn’t it? Whether it’s come from the mind or the afterlife, it’s equally fascinating.” Fascinating, indeed, but please don’t spend your festive period in an abandoned bothy…
Hugh Dennis on Making a Difference campaign: 'Tiny amounts make an enormous difference'
The Outnumbered star returns for another year to front the Radio 4 Christmas Appeal, sharing powerful stories of resilience and hope from those whose lives have been transformed by St Martin-in-the-Fields' vital support.
Hugh Dennis is speaking to Radio Times from the set of the festive edition of the BBC One sitcom Outnumbered. You know, the one about a family tackling the issues thrown up by the generation gap all in the comfort of their warm, loving home. But this comedic narrative is a long way from the experiences that thousands of families and individuals will be facing this Christmas. For over a decade, Dennis has been fronting Making a Difference, linked to the annual Radio 4 Christmas Appeal, now in its 98th year, which raises money to help change the lives of those experiencing homelessness. Radio 4 listeners and Radio Times readers donated over £5 million to the St Martin-in-the-Fields charity over the course of last year. Now, in Radio 4 Christmas Appeal: Making a Difference, Dennis catches up with some of the people whose lives have been changed through the money given to support the Vicar’s Relief Fund that offers emergency grants, the Connection day centre at St Martin’s and its Mental Health Frontline Fund. But what makes him come back, year after year, to support these projects? "One of the things you learn working with the appeal is that for the people in this situation, none of it is down to a choice that they’ve made. It takes such tiny changes in people’s circumstances to no longer have a home – a missed mortgage payment, a trauma, a breakdown in family relationships. It’s rather frightening in many senses – a case of there but for the grace of God go I. It takes so little for everything to disappear and, once in that spiral, it’s very difficult to get out, no matter how much you want to. "The charity gives grants to people and they’re not terribly big amounts of money, the maximum is £500, but these small amounts make an enormous difference, which is why I really encourage people to give if they can." Two of the people who received support last year are John and Carla. Dennis heads out on the streets of central London with Carla to experience how she was living before she received some help from the Connection, and it’s a pretty grim picture of life in 21st-century Britain. She was sleeping in a tent, positioning herself near underground stations or cafés that had hot air vents on the coldest, darkest, wettest nights. For Carla, a daily visit to the Connection at St Martin-in-the-Fields offered refuge, warmth, food, a shower and a chance to wash her clothes. After years of struggling with addiction issues and a particularly awful period of sofa surfing – "most of the time it was with men, and they would always want something out of it" – Carla is now living in a hostel in London’s Victoria. It’s early days, but she has cut back on drinking, has a dedicated outreach support worker and is working towards getting her own accommodation. When Dennis asks her how she feels about where her life is right now, compared with a year ago, she says she’s much happier, more relaxed, more at ease with herself and, crucially, "able to look forwards, not back". Then there’s John, whose life changed radically when he found himself in debt following a period of clinical depression. The former engineer lost his house and ended up sleeping rough until he met someone from Hope into Action who helped him get a grant from the Vicar’s Relief Fund. This money paid the deposit on the one-bed bungalow in which he now lives. "It’s really nice to have my own bed," he says. "When I was out on the street, other people were feeding me, and it just didn’t sit well. You should be able to feed yourself and now I can. I’m very happy living here. My wishes for the new year are to keep my home and live here forever. I’m a lot happier with my life the way it is now, and I’m very grateful to a lot of people." It doesn’t sound like much to ask, does it? A roof over your head, bed to sleep in, food to eat, somewhere to wash but, as the Rev Sam Wells, Vicar of St Martin-in-the-Fields points out in this year’s appeal, "We see homelessness everywhere and, across the UK, it is rising." The price of a coffee or your favourite listings magazine can make a difference this year to someone’s life. As Dennis eloquently puts it, "The urge for a home is common to everyone I’ve spoken to, the need for stability, warmth, family relationships. Tiny amounts of money make an enormous difference, and we are incredibly grateful to people who don’t have much money themselves. It’s a heartwarming thing." Read more: Outnumbered kids reveal hopes for their characters ahead of Christmas special Outnumbered kids are open to returning for a new full season To support this year’s appeal, you can send cheques, made payable to St Martin-in-the-Fields Christmas Appeal, to Freepost BBC St Martin’s Christmas Appeal; or pay by credit/debit card on Freephone 0800 082 82 84 and online at bbc.co.uk/R4christmasappeal.
'Tiny amounts make an enormous difference'
Hugh Dennis returns for another year of fronting the Radio 4 Christmas Appeal, sharing powerful stories of resilience and hope from those whose lives have been transformed by St Martin-in-the-Fields' vital support
Radio 4 Christmas Appeal: Making a Difference is on Sunday at 9.45am/11.45pm and Radio 4 Christmas Appeal is on Sunday at 7.54am/9.25pm. Add the Radio 4 Appeal to your collection now Hugh Dennis is speaking to RT from the set of the festive edition of the BBC1 sitcom Outnumbered. You know, the one about a family tackling the issues thrown up by the generation gap all in the comfort of their warm, loving home. But this comedic narrative is a long way from the experiences that thousands of families and individuals will be facing this Christmas. For over a decade, Dennis has been fronting Making a Difference, linked to the annual Radio 4 Christmas Appeal, now in its 98th year, which raises money to help change the lives of those experiencing homelessness. Radio 4 listeners and RT readers donated over £5 million to the St Martin-in-the-Fields charity over the course of last year. Now, in Radio 4 Christmas Appeal: Making a Difference, Dennis catches up with some of the people whose lives have been changed through the money given to support the Vicar’s Relief Fund that offers emergency grants, the Connection day centre at St Martin’s and its Mental Health Frontline Fund. But what makes him come back, year after year, to support these projects? “One of the things you learn working with the appeal is that for the people in this situation, none of it is down to a choice that they’ve made. It takes such tiny changes in people’s circumstances to no longer have a home – a missed mortgage payment, a trauma, a breakdown in family relationships. It’s rather frightening in many senses – a case of there but for the grace of God go I. It takes so little for everything to disappear and, once in that spiral, it’s very difficult to get out, no matter how much you want to. “The charity gives grants to people and they’re not terribly big amounts of money, the maximum is £500, but these small amounts make an enormous difference, which is why I really encourage people to give if they can.” Two of the people who received support last year are John and Carla. Dennis heads out on the streets of central London with Carla to experience how she was living before she received some help from the Connection, and it’s a pretty grim picture of life in 21st-century Britain. She was sleeping in a tent, positioning herself near underground stations or cafés that had hot air vents on the coldest, darkest, wettest nights. For Carla, a daily visit to the Connection at St Martin-in-the-Fields offered refuge, warmth, food, a shower and a chance to wash her clothes. After years of struggling with addiction issues and a particularly awful period of sofa surfing – “most of the time it was with men, and they would always want something out of it” – Carla is now living in a hostel in London’s Victoria. It’s early days, but she has cut back on drinking, has a dedicated outreach support worker and is working towards getting her own accommodation. When Dennis asks her how she feels about where her life is right now, compared with a year ago, she says she’s much happier, more relaxed, more at ease with herself and, crucially, “able to look forwards, not back.” Then there’s John, whose life changed radically when he found himself in debt following the death of his child and a period of clinical depression. The former engineer lost his house and ended up sleeping rough until he met someone from Hope into Action who helped him get a grant from the Vicar’s Relief Fund. This money paid the deposit on the one-bed bungalow in which he now lives. “It’s really nice to have my own bed,” he says. “When I was out on the street, other people were feeding me, and it just didn’t sit well. You should be able to feed yourself and now I can. I’m very happy living here. My wishes for the new year are to keep my home and live here for ever. I’m a lot happier with my life the way it is now, and I’m very grateful to a lot of people.” It doesn’t sound like much to ask, does it? A roof over your head, bed to sleep in, food to eat, somewhere to wash but, as the Rev Sam Wells, Vicar of St Martin-in-the-Fields points out in this year’s appeal, “We see homelessness everywhere and, across the UK, it is rising.” The price of a coffee or your favourite listings magazine can make a difference this year to someone’s life. As Dennis eloquently puts it, “The urge for a home is common to everyone I’ve spoken to, the need for stability, warmth, family relationships. Tiny amounts of money make an enormous difference, and we are incredibly grateful to people who don’t have much money themselves. It’s a heartwarming thing.”
David Morrissey and Jason Watkins star in a new season of Dickens dramas, which still feel as relevant as ever…
Hard Times is on Radio 4 on Sunday 29 September at 3pm. Little Dorrit is on at 3pm on Sunday 13th September, and Our Mutual Friend follows at 3pm on Sunday 3 November. Add them to your collection now. David Morrissey plays Thomas Gradgrind, the wealthy school superintendent-cum-merchant-cum-MP with a strong belief in utilitarian, rational thought in Hard Times... Were you introduced to Dickens as a child? No. Dickens and Shakespeare were not a part of my [school] curriculum at all. I came to him in my early 20s. There was something about the volume and size of the books that I found intimidating, but then I realised when I started reading them that there was nothing intimidating in the language and that they rocked along. We know now that he wrote them episodically and they were like modern soap operas. They captivated everybody and that’s why newspaper proprietors just loved them – Dickens was one of the main reasons people bought their papers. He has “come back next week” cliffhangers and big moments. I played Bradley Headstone in Our Mutual Friend on BBC2 in 1998, which is very much about intriguing characters: funny, tragic, political. I think certainly with Hard Times there is a modern political aspect to it as well. So, yes, I came to him late. It wasn’t part of my education, but once I dipped my toe in, that was it – I was really smitten! Tell us more about the connections you see to current politics in Hard Times. My bugbear for a long time has been people like Michael Gove when he was the Secretary of State Listen for Education [2010–14]. He downgraded what he called “soft options”: arts, music, drama, media studies, things like that. So, he was basically saying to a whole generation of state-educated pupils that these subjects aren’t worth it. Put your energy into what business is telling us we need: maths, English, science. The consequence of that is quashing the imagination, creativity, curiosity, the idea of fantasy. What relevance do you see between Dickens’s novels and contemporary times? When we are talking about downgrading the arts – in particular in state schools – what you do see is the flipside of that in private schools, some of which have theatre and orchestra facilities that would rival the West End and Royal Philharmonic Society. It means you are saying the arts are available to one strata of society, basically the rich, and not available to this other side, which is basically the workforce. You are creating a narrative that is: “This isn’t for you.” It’s always been the case that, for the powers that be, educating the masses is a dangerous undertaking because people start asking questions – they start getting informed, they start finding things out. I hope that Labour are making all their tough decisions early on and will then start rebuilding the sort of society I hoped they would. What do you think Dickens would make of modern-day Britain? I think he would be surprised by how little has changed. I think he would be devastated by the river [Thames] and some of the architecture that has been allowed to appear along it. I think he would be appalled by all the noise and pollution. I think most people around at that time would have thought that in the future we would have become a more egalitarian and humanitarian place. Are there any Dickens roles that you would love to play? Dombey [from Dombey and Son]. I think he’s a great character. There’s something about him that I have always loved. Like Gradgrind, he’s a character that’s stuck in his ways. But he’s also grief-stricken. He’s a man who felt that he had one destiny, and it’s snatched away from him, and he can’t live in the present because he is so locked into the past. One of my favourite Dickens books is Night Walks. He was an insomniac and he used to just walk round London at night and write about his observations. It’s very much ruminations on life and the poverty-stricken side of London. Dickens, himself, as a character, I find fascinating. He was obviously a complex individual. Jason Watkins takes on a dual role in Little Dorrit, as both Charles Dickens and the villainous Rigaud, a self-confessed, cold-blooded murderer... When were you introduced to Dickens’s work? I first knew Dickens through films, probably A Christmas Carol. But my father had quite an eccentric relative who lived on a farm in the middle of nowhere in Lincolnshire, who we visited one Sunday when I was about 11. By the afternoon they were all pretty sozzled and he ended up giving me a Caxton Press 1910 collection of Dickens’s works. I’ve still got it; it’s beautiful. But I’ve always struggled with dyslexia, so I didn’t ever actually read the books. I was in a play called A Farewell to the Theatre and I played a Dickens reciter who goes to America, so I did a bit of research then and read a biography. And five years ago I read Barnaby Rudge for Audible. It was then that I really got into understanding his work. Dickens famously wrote very long sentences, so with your dyslexia, was it daunting being asked to tackle something like Barnaby Rudge? Yes. I’d said to Audible, “This is going to be a push,” and they said, “No, this is fine, take your time,” and I did work out a way of reading it. I count that, actually, as one of my biggest achievements – to be able to read those 885 pages and make it live. You’re playing two very different roles in Little Dorrit: Rigaud and Dickens; one’s a murder and the other is a humanistic, sympathetic man. How did you find that? Great! I mean that’s the dream. The dramatisation is incredibly clever. Dickens is reflecting upon his own position in something that he himself has created. He’s creating this book, these characters, and he – like all good writers – has brought a bit of himself into it. And then, of course, with Rigaud – who is very dark and manipulative, shallow, morally bankrupt… it’s almost too much fun to play one of these villains. One of the standout things that people remember from Little Dorrit is the Circumlocution Office, run solely for the benefit of its incompetent, obstructive and self-serving officials. Do you think this makes a connection with contemporary audiences? It’s bureaucracy gone mad, isn’t it? The equivalent now would be how technology can dehumanise us. Dickens had the Industrial Revolution and the poverty associated with that; we have a technological revolution and it’s where our humanity fits into that. I was talking to somebody yesterday about the problems with getting a GP appointment. Often you have to sit there at 8.30am with your finger on a button and press it quicker than anyone else so that you can have an appointment. What’s all that about? And when you’re sitting on a phone line and they say: “We are experiencing exceptionally high call volume at the moment.” You think, “That’s a lie, isn’t it? You haven’t got enough people. You’re making us wait because you don’t want to pay the money.” I am sure Dickens would love to expose the bureaucracy of that – the lie of that. What do you think he would make of modern Britain? I think he would be pretty appalled by the amount of child poverty that still exists in such an enormous global economy; that within one of the top five or six economies in the world we still have a society that is unequal, where so many children starve and aren’t housed properly. But I think he would delight in social media and people saying whatever they like. I’m sure he’d be cancelled fairly quickly... but I’m sure he’d be across that. Are there any Dickens roles that you would love to play in the future? I’d like to play Scrooge because that’s been part of my upbringing. I do get a little bit drawn towards the villains – Bill Sikes [from Oliver Twist] would be good and Magwitch in Great Expectations. Now you’ve asked me, I’m going to have to look at all of his books again.
David Morrissey on Hard Times and Dickens: "He would be surprised how little has changed"
For the latest issue of Radio Times magazine, the actor discusses his role as Thomas Gradgrind in the new Radio 4 dramatisation.
BBC Radio 4 is embarking on a new season of Dickens dramas, starting with Hard Times on Sunday 29th September. David Morrissey plays Thomas Gradgrind, the wealthy school superintendent-cum-merchant-cum-MP with a strong belief in utilitarian, rational thought. Speaking to Radio Times, Morrissey discusses why the writer's work still feels as relevant as ever... Were you introduced to Dickens as a child? "No. Dickens and Shakespeare were not a part of my [school] curriculum at all. I came to him in my early 20s. There was something about the volume and size of the books that I found intimidating, but then I realised when I started reading them that there was nothing intimidating in the language and that they rocked along. "We know now that he wrote them episodically and they were like modern soap operas. They captivated everybody and that's why newspaper proprietors just loved them – Dickens was one of the main reasons people bought their papers. He has 'come back next week' cliffhangers and big moments. "I played Bradley Headstone in Our Mutual Friend on BBC Two in 1998, which is very much about intriguing characters: funny, tragic, political. I think certainly with Hard Times there is a modern political aspect to it as well. So, yes, I came to him late. It wasn't part of my education, but once I dipped my toe in, that was it – I was really smitten!" Tell us more about the connections you see to current politics in Hard Times. "My bugbear for a long time has been people like Michael Gove when he was the Secretary of State for Education [2010–14]. He downgraded what he called 'soft options': arts, music, drama, media studies, things like that. "So, he was basically saying to a whole generation of state-educated pupils that these subjects aren't worth it. Put your energy into what business is telling us we need: maths, English, science. The consequence of that is quashing the imagination, creativity, curiosity, the idea of fantasy." What relevance do you see between Dickens's novels and contemporary times? "When we are talking about downgrading the arts – in particular in state schools – what you do see is the flipside of that in private schools, some of which have theatre and orchestra facilities that would rival the West End and Royal Philharmonic Society. "It means you are saying the arts are available to one strata of society, basically the rich, and not available to this other side, which is basically the workforce. You are creating a narrative that is, 'This isn't for you.' "It's always been the case that, for the powers that be, educating the masses is a dangerous undertaking because people start asking questions – they start getting informed, they start finding things out. I hope that Labour are making all their tough decisions early on and will then start rebuilding the sort of society I hoped they would." What do you think Dickens would make of modern-day Britain? "I think he would be surprised by how little has changed. I think he would be devastated by the river [Thames] and some of the architecture that has been allowed to appear along it. I think he would be appalled by all the noise and pollution. "I think most people around at that time would have thought that in the future we would have become a more egalitarian and humanitarian place." Are there any Dickens roles that you would love to play? "Dombey [from Dombey and Son]. I think he's a great character. There's something about him that I have always loved. Like Gradgrind, he's a character that's stuck in his ways. But he's also grief-stricken. He's a man who felt that he had one destiny, and it's snatched away from him, and he can't live in the present because he is so locked into the past. "One of my favourite Dickens books is Night Walks. He was an insomniac and he used to just walk round London at night and write about his observations. It's very much ruminations on life and the poverty-stricken side of London. Dickens, himself, as a character, I find fascinating. He was obviously a complex individual." The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Hard Times airs at 3pm on Sunday 29th September on BBC Radio 4. Check out more of our Radio coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.