The Traitors' fabulous icons Amanda, Diane and Linda glam up for Claudia-inspired shoot – and talk being underestimated as older women
Amanda Lovett, Diane Carson and Linda Rands talk being Traitors fan favourites.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Perhaps it’s a coincidence, perhaps it’s clever casting – or perhaps it says something about how, as a society, we underestimate certain types of people. But every year on The Traitors, amidst the backstabbings, round tables and snazzy cloaks there’s always one breakout star who defies convention, trends and ideas of what sells on TV. They’re always a woman, always over 50, and always a fan favourite across generations, no matter how good they are at the game. It started with Amanda Lovett in the first series in 2022, when the 54-year-old estate agent entered the castle and was chosen as a Traitor. She made it to episode 10 before being banished, but had already won the social media war with her ruthless personality, hidden behind a mumsy demeanour. In series two, which aired in 2024, it was Diane Carson. The retired teacher from Lytham St Annes, Lancashire, was 63 when chosen as a Faithful. In episode six, she was handed a poisoned chalice; the following day she was shut in a coffin in a moment of brilliant high camp. Diane of course took a sacred secret to the grave – fellow contestant Ross was her son. The internet exploded. In the third series, which aired in 2025, 70-year-old Linda Rands was chosen as a Traitor. The retired opera singer from Hitchin, Hertfordshire, was banished in episode seven. Linda’s hammy, unconvincing performance as a Traitor was so celebrated, a billboard was erected in her honour in Leicester Square – for “Best Actress”. Perhaps future series of The Traitors will go even further in rejecting the median age of women on reality TV and choose an octogenarian to join its ranks – Celia Imrie was 73 when she appeared in The Celebrity Traitors and defied potential “old fart” jokes by gleefully owning up to her own during a mission. In the current series, 62-year-old Fiona summed it up well as she went about her duties as the ruthless Secret Traitor: “Never underestimate a woman of a certain age…” And now, to celebrate the upcoming finale of the fourth series, we’ve brought some of these women together. After the RT shoot – in which Amanda, Diane and Linda were styled in the gothic-chic for which host Claudia Winkleman has become well known – we asked if they’d appease their fans’ wishes and appear in an All-Stars Traitors, they all said yes! Amanda Lovett Traitor series 1 Why did you apply back in 2022? I was 54, single and had five kids. I’d left my second husband after a horrible relationship. I wanted to win some money to buy a car for my twins, who were about to turn 17. And I wanted a break! Were you surprised at the response to the first series? One of the crew said to the contestants that if the first series of The Traitors went as well as the BBC hoped, none of us would be able to go to Tesco without being recognised. I never for one minute thought it would explode, but it’s been life-changing. When [fellow Traitor] Wilf threw me under the bus, Instagram went mad and demanded a national day of mourning for me. I took the twins to Rome for a long weekend just before Christmas that year and loads of English people came up to me saying, ‘You’re Amanda from The Traitors!’ It was crazy. My twins were mortified. They still are. What was it like being an OG Traitor? I wanted to be a Traitor because I was never a popular kid at school and, as a Traitor, you have control for once. You feel special. I didn’t have a game plan. I winged it all the way and enjoyed murdering people because I didn’t have a conscience. I just wanted to enjoy the experience; I never lost sight of the fact that it’s a game. I wanted to find myself again, to have some fun. I was disappointed with Wilf because I saved his arse so many times. I thought we had a Traitors’ alliance, a code. I was wrong. What did you find out about yourself when you watched the series? That I could lie very easily. My kids were shocked, but I’m an estate agent… Were you underestimated as a middle-aged woman? Totally! Nothing out of the ordinary is expected from us. But the joke is that, as older women, we’ve got a wealth of experience. When I turned 54, I realised I was more than halfway through my life and the engine just revved up. It was time for me: I got married at 19 and hadn’t spent any time alone since then. I didn’t know who I was. When I went to the castle in Inverness, it was the first time I’d flown on my own. I came out of The Traitors a totally different person. I was empowered. Do you still work? I still work part-time as an estate agent. I encourage younger people in my workforce to come to me for advice. At my age, the chances are that I’ve already been through whatever it is they are going through. Did you enjoy watching Celia Imrie in the first series of The Celebrity Traitors? I loved her! My mum was a functioning alcoholic and my father died when I was ten. His mum, my maternal grandmother, was very posh, like Hyacinth Bucket in Keeping Up Appearances. We had to pronounce “H” as “aitch” and not “haitch” and we were never allowed to say “fart”. Women perspire; they never sweat. Women fluff or pass wind. So, when Celia, who was obviously brought up well, said “fart” on national TV, I was rejoicing. Diane Carson Faithful series 2 Why did you apply? My two eldest sons were raving about the first series of The Traitors – in fact, they were going on about it so much that I deliberately didn’t watch it. Then we were all ill over Christmas and I finally succumbed. I said out loud that I thought it was something I could do and my kids fell about laughing. “Don’t be ridiculous, mum. You’re too gobby. And if you did get on, you’d be killed immediately.” Then my daughter flippantly sent me an application form and… challenge accepted! My aim was to surprise my family – they’d switch on series two and I’d be one of the 22 contestants. What did you do for the audition? I had my hair done as I had to record a video. I set an egg timer to go off after a minute so I could say in the video, “Oh, that must be the egg timer!” It was childish, but I got through. Later, I was asked if a member of my family would like to take part. It couldn’t be my daughter, because she looks like me and it couldn’t be my two eldest boys because they both act – Kerr [Logan] was in Game of Thrones. Ross took some persuading – he was worried I was going to tell him what to do on national TV – but he finally came on board. Did you and Ross have a strategy? Just to keep Ross a secret. I am the queen of surprises. I spend my life planning surprise parties. Our family plays Dungeons & Dragons, and my boys are always playing pranks on me. When Ross said that my Sunday dinners were rubbish on The Traitors, I didn’t flinch. It was part of the game and part of our family dynamic. Did you want to be a Faithful? I can’t lie, I was sitting at the table thinking, “Please don’t touch my shoulder” [to be elected as a Traitor]. I knew people would naturally assume I was a Traitor because I have a certain type of personality – I’m direct. It takes a while for people to get to know me. I can be pretty Marmite. I don’t like Traitors winning – I didn’t want Alan Carr to win [Celebrity Traitors], until he broke down and cried and I changed my mind. Before being murdered, do you think you were underestimated as an older woman? Only in the challenges because no one thought I could be as fit as I am for my age – I’m an experienced trail runner. I could see their jaws on the floor during some of the challenges because they couldn’t believe what I was capable of. Would you do it again? Absolutely. Ross and I could have made a shedload of money doing advertisements and brand deals as mum and son from The Traitors, but he wants to be taken seriously as a young man with his own business, and I have to respect that. It doesn’t mean I’m not bloody cross with him though! Linda Rands Traitor series 3 Why did you apply? I was obsessed with the first two series. Near the end of the second, Ed Gamble said on Uncloaked that they were looking for contestants for series three. I’d had a couple of glasses of wine, so I went online and filled in the form. Not for a minute did I think I’d get on the show. There were so many stages – medicals, psychological assessments, criminal records… Did you have a strategy? Not really. It’s completely different when you’re there; you can have all the strategies you like but when you’re at the round table, everything changes in a second. I thought I’d be really mouthy at the table, because I talk non-stop in real life, but there were times when I kept really quiet in case what I said was misinterpreted. I had a notebook detailing everything that had happened each day, which was useful, but not enough. When I watched it back, I kept thinking of all the things I could have said – and then I might have won! Did you want to be a Traitor? I always wanted to be a Traitor because I thought I was good at lying – it turns out I’m not! But I loved it, although I hadn’t thought about how hard it would be to find reasons to murder a Faithful – it was horrible because you’d watch your friends trying to defend themselves. You have to remind yourself that it’s just a game and nothing is personal, no matter how many times your name is picked out at the round table. Were you underestimated as an older woman? I thought I’d be the first one out and they’d all assume I’m hopeless at everything. But I’ve got a young spirit, so I don’t feel like an older woman. I’m amazed that so many young kids loved me on The Traitors – it’s wild that they responded to a woman in her 70s. I’m saying that 70 is the new 50. How has your life changed? People recognise me in the street. The other day this guy stood there saying, “Linda from Traitors!” and then asked for a selfie to show his mum. I was on the stage singing opera for a very long time, but nothing compares to being TV famous. I love it. Which older women would you like to see in the next series of The Celebrity Traitors? Dawn French and her other half, Jennifer Saunders. Alison Hammond would be great – she’d be like Alan Carr and do lots of naughty things. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now - subscribe here The Traitors season 4 continues on Wednesday 14th January at 8pm on BBC One and BBC iPlayer. Seasons 1-3 are available to watch on iPlayer. Add The Traitors to your watchlist on the Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Entertainment coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
A century after his birth, Richard Burton is remembered by fellow actor Gabriel Byrne
Add Richard Burton: Wild Genius to your watchlist When Richard Burton arrived on the set of the mini-series Wagner in the early 1980s, the actor’s two marriages to Elizabeth Taylor had made him one of the biggest stars on the planet. The working-class boy from a south-Wales mining village had enjoyed a glittering career on stage and screen, earning seven Oscar nominations for celebrated films like Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and Equus. Yet when Gabriel Byrne, who had just landed one of his first jobs outside his native Ireland as composer Richard Wagner’s patron Karl Ritter, met the actor with the famously mellifluous voice, he was shocked. “I remember walking on set and thinking he must be well into his 70s, but he was, in fact, only in his mid-50s,” the actor recalls. “He was dissipated by drink and years of heavy smoking. He had a horrendous back problem that limited his mobility. I’d seen him in all these films about masculine energy and here he was on set, looking frail.” It was, it would later turn out, the coda to Burton’s life. Byrne, who went on to enjoy a successful career with films including Miller’s Crossing and The Usual Suspects and the TV series In Treatment, found Burton, despite his diminished physicality, to be bright, engaged and kind. “He read novels translated from Russian and Japanese and his knowledge of poetry was encyclopaedic. Once I got over the fact that he was one of my favourite actors, I would sit around talking to him as he smoked a steady stream of Marlboro Reds. I think he was quite sick at the time because he’d undergone treatment for alcohol misuse in the States, but he was trying to stay sober for the eight-month Wagner shoot.” Byrne recalls a particular day filming Wagner in Austria that, for him, epitomises Burton’s later life. “There were 50 to 100 photographers at 5am all yelling, ‘Are you and Liz going to get back together?’ He was divorced from Elizabeth Taylor for the second time in 1976, and in 1983 had new partner Sally Hay [the pair met on the set of Wagner], so it was disrespectful, to say the least. When he died the following year, people were still talking about Elizabeth at his graveside as his wife was standing there, grieving. Richard and Elizabeth were toxic, addictive companions and Sally was helping him live a simple life.” Byrne appears alongside Hay and Burton’s daughter Kate in Richard Burton: Wild Genius, a new documentary that’s part of the BBC’s celebration of the centenary of his birth. There are previously unseen home movie recordings, photos and letters, all of which help paint a picture of an extraordinarily gifted Welsh kid who, like Richard Harris and Oliver Reed, became immortalised as a tortured artist. In Wild Genius, Byrne says that Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor “were addicted to each other, to alcohol and to fame”. Now, talking on Zoom from New York, he explains more. “All those great actors like Burton, who struggled with alcohol, were sick with a disease, but the stories of their decline are couched in bravado, and they are seen as ‘wild men’. Drink destroyed his talent. He suffered while the media mythologised him.” Would it be fair to say that Burton’s ability to access pain made him a great actor? “I don’t think he was in love with acting, but in the right role, like, say, The Spy Who Came In from the Cold, there was absolutely a melancholy and sadness. He didn’t think he was that good an actor. I don’t think he would’ve called himself a genius. A genius, for him, was Dylan Thomas or Shakespeare.” Even though Burton has been dead for over 40 years, Byrne clearly loves talking about him. “He gave me a fantastic piece of advice that has stayed with me: ‘Your work isn’t who you are. The real you is not your job.’” Did Burton adhere to his own advice? Byrne laughs. “He did not; he put his work first and his life second. He ultimately understood the futility of success and fame. He certainly didn’t have it easy. I thought it was incredibly unfair that people said he ‘threw away’ his genius and ‘betrayed’ the British stage. He didn’t. He left to make great films.” Byrne saw Burton for the last time in 1984. “We kept in touch, and I went to see him on the set of Nineteen Eighty-Four. His hair was white and his eyes very bright. It was as though he had a fever. He said to me, ‘This is my comeback.’ It was a real moment of hope. And then, shortly afterwards, he died from a haemorrhagic stroke. He was buried in Switzerland, where he lived, which was so strange to me.” Because he never went home to Wales? “Exactly. But I don’t think he was ever at home, even in himself."
Revisiting Doc Martin's global adaptations – remakes from Spain to Russia
Two decades after Doc Martin first charmed viewers in Cornwall, the grumpy GP is going global once again.
When Doc Martin first aired on ITV in 2004, few could have predicted its global staying power. By 2017, the drama was not only averaging millions of viewers in the UK but had also inspired international remakes from Spain to Russia – proof that Martin Clunes's gruff GP had struck a universal chord. Eight years on, that reach is expanding once again. Fox has unveiled the first trailer for Best Medicine, a new US adaptation starring The Good Wife’s Josh Charles as Dr Martin Best – a brilliant but socially awkward surgeon who swaps Boston for a small East Coast fishing village. Billed as a "charmingly complicated one-hour comedy", Best Medicine features a cast including Abigail Spencer, Annie Potts, and Josh Segarra, with Clunes himself making a cameo as Dr Best’s father. The series will premiere in January 2026, two decades after the original show first introduced audiences to the prickly doctor whose bedside manner was as sharp as his medical skills. Below, revisit our 2017 look at Doc Martin’s extraordinary worldwide success – and the devoted fans who helped turn a sleepy Cornish village into a global TV landmark. The below was first published in Radio Times magazine in September 2017. The ITV drama is enduringly popular in the UK, averaging 9 million viewers per episode since it started in 2004 — but its global reach is staggering. It is screened in more than a dozen countries, including the USA, Canada, Venezuela, Mexico and Uruguay. It is also remade with an entirely different cast in half a dozen more, from Russia to Spain. The Spanish Doc Martin is reborn as Doctor Mateo and set in Lastres, a fishing village on the north coast of Spain, cleverly renamed San Martin del Sella for the drama. For a long time, there was even serious talk of Marta Kauffman, the co-creator of Friends, remaking Doc Martin in America. "She was very keen," says Mark Crowdy, the show’s executive producer. "But they couldn’t find a way of making it commercially viable because we’ve already sold the format around the world. When Doc Martin first aired in the US, its reach was just 7 per cent. But as its popularity has grown, it’s now up to 97 per cent. Absolutely astonishing." Back home in Cornwall, fans of the show travel in droves to Port Isaac to watch Doc Martin being filmed. The online community – there is even a fan club in Mumbai – share tips on the best places to eat, drink and sleep, alongside details of the filming schedule. When I visit, four American women outside a shop are leaning breathlessly over a bowl of £3 fridge magnets displaying Martin Clunes as Doc Martin in a grey suit and wearing a disinterested expression. They ignore the topless postcards of Aidan Turner in Poldark, their attention focused entirely on Doc Martin memorabilia – postcards of the cast, a clock, clotted cream, shortbread biscuits and an apron with the Doc scowling, his baby dangling in a sling from his chest. Will, who works in the shop, says the perennial bestsellers are mugs adorned with Doc Martin’s face. The American women aren’t simply passing through – they are self-proclaimed "Clunatics". Ask why they love the irascible doctor so much and they simply say: "He’s so honest! So direct!" Helen Haig and her son Chris travel nearly two hours from Taunton in Somerset to watch filming. They once came for a week and saw no filming at all. "We didn’t mind," Helen says. "It’s just a bonus if they are filming and we can soak up the atmosphere. Doc Martin is so gentle and funny compared with some of the stuff you see on TV. And Martin Clunes is a wonderful man." For Doc Martin’s legions of fans, knowing that the doctor’s surname, Ellingham, is an anagram of the surname of series creator Dominic Minghella is an interesting detail, but incidental. The main appeal lies in feeling they are connected in some way to the show and its star. Almost every day, they send Clunes chocolate or drawings of him with his dogs. They make Doc Martin bobbleheads and Lego figures. They can’t get enough of the doctor who has no filter — who says what everyone else would love to say. What will they do if the show bows out at the end of its ninth series in 2019? The Clunatics, their bags stuffed with mugs and magnets, shrug. "Watch it again from the start, of course." Add Doc Martin to your watchlist on the <a id="OWA8b702c45-bee9-94e4-f018-57518e78041b" class="x_OWAAutoLink" title="https://www.radiotimes.com/download-the-app/?af_xp=custom&pid=website&c=editorial_content&is_retargeting=true&af_reengagement_window=30d" href="https://www.radiotimes.com/download-the-app/?af_xp=custom&pid=website&c=editorial_content&is_retargeting=true&af_reengagement_window=30d" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-outlook-id="449c28d9-909e-4aab-b6b8-153454f55d5e" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-linkindex="0">Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Comedy coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Celebrity Race Across the World 2025 cast: Meet the duos taking part
As Celebrity Race Across the World returns, meet the duos racing 5,900km across central America on just £30 each a day
Move over, Scott Mills and Sam Vaughan – the third season of Celebrity Race Across the World is almost upon us, bringing a whole new set of celebs and family members on a continent-spanning adventure. This season's odyssey will see our contestants starting off on a Caribbean island before making their way through a series of checkpoints on their way to the finish live in Colombia's Peninsula de La Guajira – the gateway to South America. Naturally, they will have to survive this journey without the luxury of smartphones and internet to help them navigate, making do with just their wits and one of the smallest budgets we've ever seen in the series. So, who are the famous faces setting off on Celebrity Race Across the World 2025? This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Roman and Harleymoon Kemp The broadcaster, 32, is racing with his singer/songwriter sister, 36. Why did you sign up to take part in Race Across the World? Roman: I came off all medication [antidepressants] over a year ago and the race was a good test for my anxiety. It’s probably the best thing I’ve ever done on television, but doing the race itself was hell! I used to watch it and wonder why a contestant was crying – well, that was me. Harleymoon: My mum [Shirlie Kemp, a former backing singer for Wham! and half of Pepsi & Shirlie] was asked to be in the first celebrity Race across the World and was going to take me, but thought it sounded too hard. I was glad to have another chance to go. What was the worst part of the trip? Harleymoon: The feeling of being constantly lost! Roman: Mistakenly telling everyone Harley was "my beautiful" – mi hermosa – instead of "my sister" – mi hermana – for at least a week. What non-essential items did you pack? Harleymoon: Sachets of instant coffee, but we had limited access to boiling water. Roman: When I did I’m a Celebrity…, I put tissue paper in my ears and covered my eyes with a bandana each night. During RATW, I had a fluffy lavender eye mask and before bed I’d inhale the smell, put my ear plugs in and pass out. What was it like getting "zero VIP treatment", as Roman wrote on Instagram? Roman: Really nice! Getting local buses gave us a grasp of the countries we were in. People think we are nepo kids with no idea of the value of money, but we wanted that taste of reality more than anyone. Roman, did you consider taking your dad, [Spandau Ballet star and actor] Martin? Roman: No way! I had to get a connecting flight with him once and he couldn’t get his head around it. Harleymoon: I don’t think he’s taken the Tube in 35 years! What aspect of your character was least helpful in the race? Roman: My anxiety. I was on high alert about everything… Will we be able to cross the border? Have we lost our passports? Has someone stolen our luggage? So I was happy to have Harley with me. Harleymoon: We are very close, but very different. Growing up, Roman was a sensitive homebird and I was a rock ’n’ roll teenager. I’ve got a short attention span. Ro would be talking about his worries, and I couldn’t remember what he was talking about. Or I’d fall asleep. But I learnt to listen to him as the race progressed, and we understood each other for the first time. Molly Rainford and Tyler West The actor/singer, 24, is racing with her presenter/DJ fiancé, 29. Why did you sign up to Race across the World? Tyler: Neither of us took a gap year because we were working from such a young age, so it was a no-brainer to go and explore part of the world we hadn’t visited. Diving straight out of our comfort zone was the best thing we could do and we got to spend proper time together. You became a couple after meeting on Strictly Come Dancing in 2022. Was your relationship put to the test on the race? Molly: Yes, of course, but we are glass-half-full people. We live together, but spending 24 hours a day together in challenging circumstances is different. If Tyler was struggling, I’d support him and vice versa. Tyler: There were times when I thought about trading Molly for a mountain goat to get some extra money to race! But it obviously worked out in the end, because we got engaged after the trip… Molly: And he proposed despite the truly disgusting smell of my clothes by the end! What did you learn about yourselves? Molly: I became more confident in my decision-making, learning how to take the lead. I used to ask Tyler to phone and make appointments on my behalf, but during the race I asked strangers for help. It was a big deal for me. Tyler: It taught me to slow down. There are times when you physically can’t travel due to circumstances beyond your control. Did you ever consider quitting? Molly: It wasn’t ideal when we found bed bugs in our room, but we took a leap into the unknown, started to have a brilliant time and wanted the race to keep going for ever. Tyler: At home I’m very in control. But I developed my mental strength and didn’t want the race to end. It was us against the world. If you're planning a trip abroad, read our financial expert's advice on what to consider before going on holiday Anita Rani and dad, Bal The presenter, 47, is racing with her dad, a semi-retired businessman, 69. Why did you sign up to the race? Anita: Mainly to spend time together. We didn’t really do holidays as kids, because my parents were too busy working. I don’t think Dad had much choice [about signing up]! Bal: She said, "Dad, are you up for an adventure?" I presumed it was a weekend away, but I’m not afraid of adventures and I wanted to get to know Anita better. We’re very similar: outgoing and independent, with the same sense of humour. Did it put your relationship to the test? Anita: Maybe an hour into the race, the cameras were rolling and Dad was telling me off about something and I turned into teenage me, stomping and pouting. Bal: She was running into the road and I just told her to step back! What did you learn about yourselves? Bal: Anita is much more driven than I expected. Once she makes a decision, she sticks to it and won’t listen. Anita: I can’t let things go. Being driven – not just in work, but in every aspect of life – is a blessing and a curse. What were the biggest challenges? Anita Having a camera crew following you around is pretty tough, and the anxiety of waking up every day and knowing you have to formulate a plan to get from A to B. But it was super fun as well. Bal Not speaking Spanish. Impatience. We wanted to constantly be on the move, not waiting hours for a bus. What non-essential items did you pack? Bal: Brown sauce and chilli sauce, because we didn’t know where we were going until we arrived at the airport. Anita: We both packed resistance bands because Dad’s really into exercise. I was convinced we were going to East Africa. I had the route mapped out. I’d even been drilling Dad in Swahili. I was happy because we’d get to eat loads of curry and see all the temples. We’ll have to save that trip for another time! Dylan Llewellyn and mum Jackie The Derry Girls actor, 33, is racing with his retired mum, 59. What made you sign up? Dylan: I’d always wanted to do an amazing adventure with a family member, and I’m a bit of a mummy’s boy… Jackie: I was terrified, but I thought I should push myself. It was also a fantastic chance to spend time with Dylan now that he’s all grown up. Why did you call yourselves "Team Tortoise"? Dylan: We were so slow to get going. Approaching strangers for help was one of our biggest struggles. We’re both quite self-conscious. It was so awkward. Over time we became really good at it and started one-upping each other. What did you learn about each other? Dylan: We’re stronger than we thought. We might hide that strength in day-to-day life, but you can’t when you’re thrown into the deep end. Jackie: Dylan and I are not particularly outgoing. We’re the quiet ones, the observers. We let other people do things for us, so we both had to push ourselves. We helped each other. What were the biggest challenges? Dylan: Lack of sleep. Loud noises outside our rooms. Not eating well due to the budget – we ate so many nuts and bananas. Feeling lost the whole time. It was so overwhelming. We struggled the most out of everyone, but it wasn’t for lack of effort. Jackie: We were close to giving up at the start, but we managed to stick it out. We both felt despair when we weren’t getting anywhere. Those were very low moments. I probably only had four hours’ sleep a night. I couldn’t stop thinking about the race. I’m sure I look like a wreck! What were your best moments? Jackie: Probably when we really messed up and ended up crying with laughter. Dylan: We experienced so much kindness, and the beauty of central America was breathtaking. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Celebrity Race across the World begins on Thursday 6th November at 8pm on BBC One. Add I'm a Celebrity Race Across the World to your watchlist on the Radio Times: What to Watch app – download now for daily TV recommendations, features and more. Check out more of our Entertainment coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Add Celebrity Race Across the World to your watchlist ROMAN & HARLEYMOON KEMP The broadcaster, 32, is racing with his singer/songwriter sister, 36 Why did you sign up to take part in Race across the World? Roman I came off all medication [antidepressants] over a year ago and the race was a good test for my anxiety. It’s probably the best thing I’ve ever done on television, but doing the race itself was hell! I used to watch it and wonder why a contestant was crying – well, that was me. Harleymoon My mum [Shirlie Kemp, a former backing singer for Wham! and half of Pepsi & Shirlie] was asked to be in the first celebrity Race across the World and was going to take me, but thought it sounded too hard. I was glad to have another chance to go. What was the worst part of the trip? Harleymoon The feeling of being constantly lost! Roman Mistakenly telling everyone Harley was “my beautiful” – mi hermosa – instead of “my sister” – mi hermana – for at least a week. What non-essential items did you pack? Harleymoon Sachets of instant coffee, but we had limited access to boiling water. Roman When I did I’m a Celebrity…, I put tissue paper in my ears and covered my eyes with a bandana each night. During RATW, I had a fluffy lavender eye mask and before bed I’d inhale the smell, put my ear plugs in and pass out. What was it like getting “zero VIP treatment”, as Roman wrote on Instagram? Roman Really nice! Getting local buses gave us a grasp of the countries we were in. People think we are nepo kids with no idea of the value of money, but we wanted that taste of reality more than anyone. Roman, did you consider taking your dad, [Spandau Ballet star and actor] Martin? Roman No way! I had to get a connecting flight with him once and he couldn’t get his head around it. Harleymoon I don’t think he’s taken the Tube in 35 years! What aspect of your character was least helpful in the race? Roman My anxiety. I was on high alert about everything… Will we be able to cross the border? Have we lost our passports? Has someone stolen our luggage? So I was happy to have Harley with me. Harleymoon We are very close, but very different. Growing up, Roman was a sensitive homebird and I was a rock ’n’ roll teenager. I’ve got a short attention span. Ro would be talking about his worries, and I couldn’t remember what he was talking about. Or I’d fall asleep. But I learnt to listen to him as the race progressed, and we understood each other for the first time. MOLLY RAINFORD & TYLER WEST The actor/singer, 24, is racing with her presenter/DJ fiancé, 29 Why did you sign up to Race across the World? Tyler Neither of us took a gap year because we were working from such a young age, so it was a no-brainer to go and explore part of the world we hadn’t visited. Diving straight out of our comfort zone was the best thing we could do and we got to spend proper time together. You became a couple after meeting on Strictly Come Dancing in 2022. Was your relationship put to the test on the race? Molly Yes, of course, but we are glass-half-full people. We live together, but spending 24 hours a day together in challenging circumstances is different. If Tyler was struggling, I’d support him and vice versa. Tyler There were times when I thought about trading Molly for a mountain goat to get some extra money to race! But it obviously worked out in the end, because we got engaged after the trip… Molly And he proposed despite the truly disgusting smell of my clothes by the end! What did you learn about yourselves? Molly I became more confident in my decision-making, learning how to take the lead. I used to ask Tyler to phone and make appointments on my behalf, but during the race I asked strangers for help. It was a big deal for me. Tyler: It taught me to slow down. There are times when you physically can’t travel due to circumstances beyond your control. Did you ever consider quitting? Molly It wasn’t ideal when we found bed bugs in our room, but we took a leap into the unknown, started to have a brilliant time and wanted the race to keep going for ever. Tyler At home I’m very in control. But I developed my mental strength and didn’t want the race to end. It was us against the world. ANITA RANI & BAL NAZRAN The presenter, 47, is racing with her dad, a semi-retired businessman, 69 Why did you sign up to the race? Anita Mainly to spend time together. We didn’t really do holidays as kids, because my parents were too busy working. I don’t think Dad had much choice [about signing up]! Bal She said, “Dad, are you up for an adventure?” I presumed it was a weekend away, but I’m not afraid of adventures and I wanted to get to know Anita better. We’re very similar: outgoing and independent, with the same sense of humour. Did it put your relationship to the test? Anita Maybe an hour into the race, the cameras were rolling and Dad was telling me off about something and I turned into teenage me, stomping and pouting. Bal She was running into the road and I just told her to step back! What did you learn about yourselves? Bal Anita is much more driven than I expected. Once she makes a decision, she sticks to it and won’t listen. Anita I can’t let things go. Being driven – not just in work, but in every aspect of life – is a blessing and a curse. What were the biggest challenges? Anita Having a camera crew following you around is pretty tough, and the anxiety of waking up every day and knowing you have to formulate a plan to get from A to B. But it was super fun as well. Bal Not speaking Spanish. Impatience. We wanted to constantly be on the move, not waiting hours for a bus. What non-essential items did you pack? Bal Brown sauce and chili sauce, because we didn’t know where we were going until we arrived at the airport. Anita We both packed resistance bands because Dad’s really into exercise. I was convinced we were going to East Africa. I had the route mapped out. I’d even been drilling Dad in Swahili. I was happy because we’d get to eat loads of curry and see all the temples. We’ll have to save that trip for another time! DYLAN & JACKIE LLEWELLYN The Derry Girls actor, 33, is racing with his retired mum, 59 What made you sign up? Dylan I’d always wanted to do an amazing adventure with a family member, and I’m a bit of a mummy’s boy… Jackie I was terrified, but I thought I should push myself. It was also a fantastic chance to spend time with Dylan now that he’s all grown up. Why did you call yourselves ‘Team Tortoise’? Dylan We were so slow to get going. Approaching strangers for help was one of our biggest struggles. We’re both quite self-conscious. It was so awkward. Over time we became really good at it and started one-upping each other. What did you learn about each other? Dylan We’re stronger than we thought. We might hide that strength in day-to-day life, but you can’t when you’re thrown into the deep end. Jackie Dylan and I are not particularly outgoing. We’re the quiet ones, the observers. We let other people do things for us, so we both had to push ourselves. We helped each other. What were the biggest challenges? Dylan Lack of sleep. Loud noises outside our rooms. Not eating well due to the budget – we ate so many nuts and bananas. Feeling lost the whole time. It was so overwhelming. We struggled the most out of everyone, but it wasn’t for lack of effort. Jackie We were close to giving up at the start, but we managed to stick it out. We both felt despair when we weren’t getting anywhere. Those were very low moments. I probably only had four hours’ sleep a night. I couldn’t stop thinking about the race. I’m sure I look like a wreck! What were your best moments? Jackie Probably when we really messed up and ended up crying with laughter. Dylan We experienced so much kindness, and the beauty of central America was breathtaking.
What’s the best way to deal with middle-aged menopausal rage? Form a punk band, says Sally Wainwright
Add Riot Women to your watchlist Towards the end of 2022, I interviewed Sally Wainwright for Radio Times ahead of the final series of Happy Valley. As a fan of everything she’d written, I was nervous as hell. I’d listened to The Archers, which Wainwright wrote for in her mid-20s after ditching her job as a bus driver. I was an avid fan of Coronation Street in the mid- to late 90s, when she was in the writers’ room. I loved Scott & Bailey, the 2011 cop show that Wainwright co-created and co-wrote, starring Suranne Jones, Lesley Sharp and Amelia Bullmore. Then there was Last Tango in Halifax, based on Wainwright’s widowed mother finding love again in her 70s, starring the dazzling Nicola Walker and Sarah Lancashire. Two years later Lancashire eclipsed herself in 2014’s Happy Valley, then Suranne Jones made top hats sexy in 2019’s Gentleman Jack. For my money, there is no better curator of women’s lives, past and present, and no more gifted television writer. During that chat, Wainwright told me that she was working on a new BBC series about five menopausal women in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, who form a makeshift punk band to enter a talent contest and in the process vent their emotions. When she said in passing that she knew very little about music, I told her I’d written two books about women in rock. She asked for copies, and I was just thrilled at the idea that Sally Wainwright might have one of my books on her shelf. When she asked if I’d be music consultant on what would become Riot Women, it was the kind of job that dreams are made of. As part of my remit, I found ARXX [Arrows in Action], the Brighton band who ended up writing the original music for the series, and suggested that Kitty, the lead vocalist of Riot Women, performs Hole’s Violet when she does drunken karaoke (it’s tough to replicate Courtney Love’s ragged, impassioned lyrics, but Rosalie Craig – a real find – does it perfectly). The idea for Riot Women had been on Wainwright’s mind for a long time. As a teenager, she decided to become a writer after being dazzled by Howard Schuman’s radical mid-70s musical drama Rock Follies, about a fearless rock band led by Rula Lenska, Julie Covington and Charlotte Cornwell (they drank, they swore, they had armpit hair; it was great TV). Around a decade ago, Wainwright thought older women forming a band might be an interesting way to write about the menopause. It very much tied in with her ethos that women can do whatever the hell they like, whenever they like – even when sleep becomes an unattainable dream and hot flushes don’t just happen when they can’t remember their best friends’ names. What, then, was the menopause like for Wainwright herself, who turns 62 next month? “When I talked to Louise Newson [a hormone expert who advised on the menopause for the series], I told her that my mum died with dementia and osteoporosis, and she recommended that I start on HRT. I was considering taking it as an experiment for the show, before realising it can protect against both osteoporosis and dementia [though there is no definitive proof of the latter]. Louise thinks that women should take HRT as long as they need it. You know” – she raises an eyebrow – “as ARXX wrote in Seeing Red, if the menopause happened to blokes, we’d be getting HRT from Tesco.”’ Wainwright’s mum died at the end of 2022 after suffering from dementia for six years. Wainwright misses showing her scripts to her. “I show my work to my friends all the time, but it’s never the same as sharing it with my mum. I’ve adapted to her not being here, but I still feel sad. Like there’s always something missing. She’d have absolutely loved Riot Women because she loved Tamsin Greig when she was in The Archers.” In another song ARXX wrote for Riot Women, Wainwright contributed the lyrics “You’re just like your mother”. It’s something her ex-husband – and father of her two sons, now in their 20s and both living at home with her in Oxfordshire – used to say to her when they had arguments (he left her after 29 years of marriage, around the time her mum was diagnosed with dementia). “It was one of his favourite lines to throw at me. But the bad things in life often turn into good copy in the end. The point of the song is that it’s actually a compliment. I’m very happy to be like my mum!” Partly in tribute to her dear mum and partly because she never shies away from the reality of middle-aged women who find themselves having to deal with both teenage kids and ageing parents, Sue Johnston and Anne Reid play older mothers fragmented by dementia in Riot Women. In fact, it’s a miracle that the members of the band have time to rehearse, since their lives are dominated by wayward kids, wandering mums, work and hormones. The band is, in the end, a kind of guardian angel for the five women played by Craig, Greig, Bullmore, Joanna Scanlan and Lorraine Ashbourne. “It’s really important to say that the actors learnt to play their instruments properly,” says Wainwright. “I hate it when women mime on the telly and everyone assumes that it’s really the men who are playing. “They had lessons separately, followed by two weeks of rehearsal, one for acting and one for playing in the band, before the shoot started in Hebden Bridge. The first time they played together as Riot Women was wonderful.” She beams. “It was one of the most exciting things I’ve ever seen. By the sixth [and final] episode, when Riot Women perform in the park in Hebden Bridge, the actors were totally buzzing when they came off stage. Being in a band is such a powerful, bonding thing. Just extraordinary.” In a show of solidarity, Wainwright, who also directed three of the episodes, learnt to play the drums. Did she dream of being in a rock band when watching Rock Follies as a teenager? “Maybe for a while, but at some point I realised I just wasn’t cool enough. In fact, I’m probably as cool as I’m going to get now, in my early 60s, and I’m still the opposite the cool.” Rubbish, I say. Writing Riot Women, with its compelling female characters – and I should point out that this is a show for everyone, although Wainwright prefers creating female characters as “they are emotionally more articulate and have more to contend with because of their second-class status” – makes her as cool as any rock star. “Thank you!” says Wainwright. “But writing never gets easier. It’s so mercurial, like doing an extremely hard crossword puzzle. There’s so much superstition and anxiety involved. I was, for a long time, scared that nothing would be as good as Happy Valley…” But? “But I’m thrilled to bits with Riot Women!”
Tamsin Greig, Rosalie Craig, Joanna Scanlan, Lorraine Ashbourne and Amelia Bullmore are the Riot Women
Add Riot Women to your watchlist Tamsin Grieg plays Holly (bass) When Greig got the email asking if she was interested in doing Riot Women, she was so thrilled she threw her phone across the room. Her character Holly is a divorced police officer leaving the force who’s having a go at dating. There’s a scene in episode three that may well become a watercooler moment: after a few dates with the charming, considerably younger Jojo (Richard Fleeshman), Holly goes back to his flat. She is surprised by his sexual predilection (no spoilers!), but walks away with her head held high. “Sally could write anything for me and I’d do it,” says Greig. “Plus Richard is such a great actor that the terrible awkwardness was hilarious. Sally understands the female brain so well that she knew Holly would be wondering if she should just go through with [the sexual act] because it’d be rude to say no. Women have this desire to please.” Greig says she can sing, but wasn’t in a band at school because she was “an awkward kid on the outskirts of things”. Learning the bass was tough. “It’s a heavy instrument and the strings hurt the ends of my fingers. I ended up playing with a glove on one hand and then I found these silicon finger tops like tiny condom hats. My bass teacher had never seen anything like it.” Was it worth it? “Yes! I was in a band with these amazing women, and we weren’t completely s**t! We still WhatsApp each other all the time.” Rosalie Craig plays Kitty (vocals, guitar) Rosalie Craig, who has an award-winning background in musical theatre as well as TV roles in Moonflower Murders and The Serpent Queen, did a “breathtaking” amount of homework to win her role. “Rosalie nailed the character,” recalls Wainwright. “It’s the best audition I’ve ever seen. I’m hoping that Riot Women does for Rosalie what Happy Valley did for James Norton — makes her famous overnight.” “I took it really seriously because I’ve never played a lead in a TV drama,” Craig explains. “And how often do you audition for Sally Wainwright? She gave me lots of notes; she holds the DNA to her characters, so I listened very carefully. I got a late flight back to Dublin afterwards, where I was filming Moonflower Murders, and I had to change out of Kitty’s punky clothes at the airport. It was chaos!” At 45, Craig is the youngest member of Riot Women, but she reveals that she’s already perimenopausal, on HRT and has “no idea what the hell is happening to me”. She already knew how to sing so didn’t need lessons, but was surprised by “the release of rage” that comes with being in a band. “When we did our first rehearsal as Riot Women, I suddenly realised why all the boys at school were in bands! Bonding over music also really helped my nerves — I’ve watched the others on the telly for years and I felt like I’d won the lottery when I was acting alongside them.” Joanna Scanlan plays Beth (keyboards) Joanna Scanlan, who was one of the best things about The Thick of It, won a Bafta for After Love and was in Slow Horses, immediately said yes to Wainwright and wasn’t fazed by the idea of playing keyboards. “I come from quite a musical family, sang in choirs at school and played the piano until I was 10. I’m exactly the right age for Riot Women: I loved punk and its rejection of perfection, and I’ve come through the menopause. I wouldn’t say I had it badly — certainly not as badly as Beth — but there are extraordinary changes. I have almost forgotten what I was like before it.” Given the age of the band in Riot Women, some storylines inevitably focus on women being increasingly invisible as they age. Scanlan half-jokes that she’s always felt invisible. “Because I’m 5ft 2in! I’ve been more of an observer of life and invisibility is a useful cloak. On the other hand, I’ve wanted to be heard, to be taken seriously.” One of the joys of Riot Women was, she says, staying in a house like Beth’s (large, airy, isolated) and being able to walk to work across the Yorkshire countryside. “It was magnificent. Talk about Wuthering Heights!” Other bonuses were Wainwright’s “genius scripts” and a mostly female cast. “I’ve known Amelia for 30 years and Tamsin for 25. But everyone was just top notch.” Lorraine Ashbourne plays Jess (drums) “Riot Women is an antidote to the endless young, sexy kids on telly: it shamelessly and fearlessly talks about older women and their potential,” says Lorraine Ashbourne, the family lynchpin in both Sherwood and Alma’s Not Normal. “I love the way Sally writes about the menopause so openly, because it’s still taboo. I’ve admired her writing for years.” Ashbourne, who has three grown-up kids with Andy Serkis, all also actors, continues enthusiastically: “Jess is the closest character to me that I’ve ever played. Jess is me: the wrong side of 50, looking after ageing parents, kids still at home, trying to keep a partner, a job, a career. I am menopausal and things are changing and it’s sad and horrible. “At the same time, I refuse to give in! I’ve still got dreams and plans and ambitions. I relished having the opportunity to tell a story that’s about me and my messiness.” She laughs, adding, “It was also bloody brilliant being in a rock band. The buzz I got performing on stage in the park in Hebden Bridge was the biggest I’ve ever had. “There was fantastic bonding happening, on stage and off. We talked about everything: partners, siblings, kids, bodies, sex, ageing, Botox. When women come together, a kind of magic happens.” Amelia Bullmore plays Yvonne (guitar) Amelia Bullmore has worked with Sally Wainwright many times: Bullmore co-wrote and acted in Scott & Bailey as well as acting in Happy Valley and Gentleman Jack. When filming the latter, Wainwright asked if she remembered Rock Follies. “Of course I did! It turns out Sally and I were both obsessed with it. She said she was going to write something about women forming a band, but the point wasn’t them making the big time, it was about the doing.” Bullmore has always loved music, but as a child she was “very bad at learning to play the piano”. If she ever thought of being in a band, it was “at the back, with a tambourine, not being Chrissie Hynde or Debbie Harry”. She took learning the guitar for Riot Women very seriously and got “a huge hit of pleasure” when she improved — but she was still anxious about performing as a band. “We all learnt the two ARXX songs, Seeing Red and Riot Women, separately,” she explains. “When we finally played together, there was a huge release of euphoria. We did it! We often couldn’t sleep afterwards because of the adrenaline; it amazed me how long it took to metabolise a music day. It was such a high.” Before taking HRT, which helped with “sleep, confidence and sweating”, Bullmore says that filming could be tricky. “Having a hot flush in a corset and a bonnet was no fun. I used to feel trapped. I rarely have flushes now, but it was great to work with a largely female cast and crew, knowing they’d understand if I had to get a breath of air. We rehearsed, shot, ate, chatted, laughed together — it was like a camping holiday with great raconteurs!”
Happy Valley’s Sally Wainwright divulges emotional personal inspiration behind Riot Women - as cast of characters explained
What’s the best way to deal with middle-aged menopausal rage? Form a punk band, says Sally Wainwright.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Towards the end of 2022, I interviewed Sally Wainwright for Radio Times ahead of the final series of Happy Valley. As a fan of everything she’d written, I was nervous as hell. I’d listened to The Archers, which Wainwright wrote for in her mid-20s after ditching her job as a bus driver. I was an avid fan of Coronation Street in the mid- to late 90s, when she was in the writers’ room. I loved Scott & Bailey, the 2011 cop show that Wainwright co-created and co-wrote, starring Suranne Jones, Lesley Sharp and Amelia Bullmore. Then there was Last Tango in Halifax, based on Wainwright’s widowed mother finding love again in her 70s, starring the dazzling Nicola Walker and Sarah Lancashire. Two years later Lancashire eclipsed herself in 2014’s Happy Valley, then Suranne Jones made top hats sexy in 2019’s Gentleman Jack. For my money, there is no better curator of women’s lives, past and present, and no more gifted television writer. During that chat, Wainwright told me that she was working on a new BBC series about five menopausal women in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, who form a makeshift punk band to enter a talent contest and in the process vent their emotions. When she said in passing that she knew very little about music, I told her I’d written two books about women in rock. She asked for copies, and I was just thrilled at the idea that Sally Wainwright might have one of my books on her shelf. When she asked if I’d be music consultant on what would become Riot Women, it was the kind of job that dreams are made of. As part of my remit, I found ARXX [Arrows in Action], the Brighton band who ended up writing the original music for the series, and suggested that Kitty, the lead vocalist of Riot Women, performs Hole’s Violet when she does drunken karaoke (it’s tough to replicate Courtney Love’s ragged, impassioned lyrics, but Rosalie Craig – a real find – does it perfectly). The idea for Riot Women had been on Wainwright’s mind for a long time. As a teenager, she decided to become a writer after being dazzled by Howard Schuman’s radical mid-70s musical drama Rock Follies, about a fearless rock band led by Rula Lenska, Julie Covington and Charlotte Cornwell (they drank, they swore, they had armpit hair; it was great TV). Around a decade ago, Wainwright thought older women forming a band might be an interesting way to write about the menopause. It very much tied in with her ethos that women can do whatever the hell they like, whenever they like – even when sleep becomes an unattainable dream and hot flushes don’t just happen when they can’t remember their best friends’ names. What, then, was the menopause like for Wainwright herself, who turns 62 next month? “When I talked to Louise Newson [a hormone expert who advised on the menopause for the series], I told her that my mum died with dementia and osteoporosis, and she recommended that I start on HRT. I was considering taking it as an experiment for the show, before realising it can protect against both osteoporosis and dementia [though there is no definitive proof of the latter]. Louise thinks that women should take HRT as long as they need it. You know” – she raises an eyebrow – “as ARXX wrote in Seeing Red, if the menopause happened to blokes, we’d be getting HRT from Tesco.”’ Wainwright’s mum died at the end of 2022 after suffering from dementia for six years. Wainwright misses showing her scripts to her. “I show my work to my friends all the time, but it’s never the same as sharing it with my mum. I’ve adapted to her not being here, but I still feel sad. Like there’s always something missing. She’d have absolutely loved Riot Women because she loved Tamsin Greig when she was in The Archers.” View oEmbed on the source website In another song ARXX wrote for Riot Women, Wainwright contributed the lyrics “You’re just like your mother”. It’s something her ex-husband – and father of her two sons, now in their 20s and both living at home with her in Oxfordshire – used to say to her when they had arguments (he left her after 29 years of marriage, around the time her mum was diagnosed with dementia). “It was one of his favourite lines to throw at me. But the bad things in life often turn into good copy in the end. The point of the song is that it’s actually a compliment. I’m very happy to be like my mum!” Partly in tribute to her dear mum and partly because she never shies away from the reality of middle-aged women who find themselves having to deal with both teenage kids and ageing parents, Sue Johnston and Anne Reid play older mothers fragmented by dementia in Riot Women. In fact, it’s a miracle that the members of the band have time to rehearse, since their lives are dominated by wayward kids, wandering mums, work and hormones. The band is, in the end, a kind of guardian angel for the five women played by Craig, Greig, Bullmore, Joanna Scanlan and Lorraine Ashbourne. “It’s really important to say that the actors learnt to play their instruments properly,” says Wainwright. “I hate it when women mime on the telly and everyone assumes that it’s really the men who are playing. “They had lessons separately, followed by two weeks of rehearsal, one for acting and one for playing in the band, before the shoot started in Hebden Bridge. The first time they played together as Riot Women was wonderful.” She beams. “It was one of the most exciting things I’ve ever seen. By the sixth [and final] episode, when Riot Women perform in the park in Hebden Bridge, the actors were totally buzzing when they came off stage. Being in a band is such a powerful, bonding thing. Just extraordinary.” In a show of solidarity, Wainwright, who also directed three of the episodes, learnt to play the drums. Did she dream of being in a rock band when watching Rock Follies as a teenager? “Maybe for a while, but at some point I realised I just wasn’t cool enough. In fact, I’m probably as cool as I’m going to get now, in my early 60s, and I’m still the opposite the cool.” Rubbish, I say. Writing Riot Women, with its compelling female characters – and I should point out that this is a show for everyone, although Wainwright prefers creating female characters as “they are emotionally more articulate and have more to contend with because of their second-class status” – makes her as cool as any rock star. “Thank you!” says Wainwright. “But writing never gets easier. It’s so mercurial, like doing an extremely hard crossword puzzle. There’s so much superstition and anxiety involved. I was, for a long time, scared that nothing would be as good as Happy Valley…” But? “But I’m thrilled to bits with Riot Women!” The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Riot Women begins at 9pm on Sunday 12th October on BBC One and iPlayer. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
'No girl is ever going to be good enough'
From The Princess Bride to Forrest Gump and House of Cards, Robin Wright has played strong women – but is she now mining her own life to play a jealous mother?
Add The Girlfriend to your watchlist In 2018, Robin Wright became the lead in the sixth and final season of Netflix’s political thriller House of Cards. Although she was already an established player in the political drama, this was nonetheless a rather unexpected turn of events. Her co-star Kevin Spacey had been fired following allegations of sexual assault (of which he was later cleared) and both fans and critics openly wondered how the hugely successful Netflix show could continue without its Oscar-winning star. In hindsight, such doubts seem absurd. After all, this is the actress who had played Buttercup in the cult hit, The Princess Bride in her early 20s and within ten years had become a global star thanks to her role as Jenny in Forrest Gump. Wright, and her House of Cards character Claire Underwood, blew all expectations out of the water. Underwood’s Machiavellian former lobbyist finally became president and appointed an all-female cabinet – and Wright, who had fought long and hard for equal pay with Spacey, basked in glowing reviews. Yet, journalists kept focusing on Spacey – she told NBC news in 2018 that “we were all surprised, of course, and ultimately saddened” – while fans stopped her in the street to ask how she could “play someone as venal as Claire Underwood”. What they really wanted to know, of course, was if she was like Underwood in real life. To which she emphatically replies, “Not in any shape or form! Apart from the Altuzarra dresses and Louboutin shoes. My job is to portray characters that have nothing to do with me. Acting is a switch that you turn on and off.” We are talking over video call, Wright sitting in a room with wooden beams and tasteful furniture somewhere in the English countryside. She’s “taking a little breather after three years grinding away” at her new Amazon Prime Video series, The Girlfriend. She doesn’t mean to sound jaded – it’s just that TV takes so long to get made, and then there’s the agonising wait to see if it hits the zeitgeist. The Girlfriend, based on a novel of the same name by Michelle Francis, is about Laura (Wright), a glamorous and wealthy woman whose life is upended when her handsome son Daniel (Laurie Davidson) brings home his new girlfriend Cherry (Olivia Cook). There is immediate tension. Beautifully shot in London and Spain, a dual perspective format asks us to decide whether Cherry is a scheming working-class opportunist or if Laura is a paranoid control freak and snob. Wright explains that Andy Serkis’s Imaginarium Productions, who bought the rights to the book, reached out to her at the end of the pandemic, asking if she’d like to direct the pilot and “set the tone of the show”. Having already directed ten episodes of House of Cards, two of Ozark and the 2021 feature film, Land, Wright could see the potential. “I loved how female-driven the narrative is, and I could absolutely see how juicy the show could be,” says Wright. “We were initially looking at other actresses to play Laura, but schedules didn’t work out and I ended up taking the part myself. The role resonated for me in so many ways, not least because I have a son [32-year-old actor Hopper Penn, with former husband Sean Penn] and I can understand why Laura feels so protective towards her child.” I don’t ask about Hopper or his 34-year-old sister Dylan Penn, also an actor, because I’ve been told any personal questions are off the table, which is no surprise, since Wright’s fractious 14-year marriage to Penn was the stuff of tabloid dreams (she is currently happily single). Still, she laughs as she remembers Hopper calling her the previous day. “He’d just seen the trailer for The Girlfriend and couldn’t wait to watch the series. I asked him to reassure me that I’m not like Laura! He giggled and said, ‘Well, you’re a mom…’ And of course, no girl is ever going to be good enough for him, in my view. It’s just inherent in us mommies.” Despite Wright’s American background, The Girlfriend explores the very British issue of class, which she reports was discussed constantly on set. “Class in the UK is certainly more delineated than in the States. Cherry is desperate to experience the kind of privileged life Daniel can offer, whatever the consequences.” Filming in London meant showing that divide through luxury locations. “We shot in a stunning six-storey house in St John’s Wood with a pool in the basement,” Wright recalls. “And the location manager got us access to an art gallery in central London… it’s such a great city.” At 59, and after four decades “in this business”, Wright can pretty much pick and choose the projects she takes on, but it hasn’t always been an easy journey. “I decided to be selective about the roles I took in my 20s, which was hard because sometimes you have to take what you’re offered to stay in the game. When the kids were babies, I just took them with me; I breastfed my son on Forrest Gump because he was only six months old. But during my kids’ formative years, I put them first and only worked once a year. I’d try to work in the summer holidays so Hopper and Dylan could come on set with me. God, they hated it; I was taking them away from their sleepovers and their soccer games. It was boring for them: ‘Mom’s on set all day working, and we’re in the trailer waiting for her 30-minute lunch, and she’s exhausted and wants to sleep.’” Talking of Forrest Gump, I wonder if Wright is still in touch with her co-star Tom Hanks? “Well, my friends are the people I met in my late teens, not celebrities. I don’t mingle apart from at awards ceremonies. Tom lives down the street from me and although we never see each other socially, I loved working with him on [the Robert Zemeckis film] Here a few years ago. I asked him why he was still working, since he hardly needs the money. He said, ‘But wow, I love the chat!’ He tells stories on set all day long. He’s hysterically funny – he has the whole set in stitches. He’s a good egg.” It’s tempting to ask if Wright herself still needs to work, but she’s clearly having so much fun in The Girlfriend that such a question might be redundant. Instead, I ask about the unexpected skills actors pick up –“I’m terrified of horses, but when I played Antiope in Wonder Woman, I had to learn to gallop at 100 miles an hour on sand while firing arrows” – and the ongoing impact of #MeToo on her industry. “It’s certainly changed for the better. There are finally rules and regulations and everyone has to follow a code. Companies come on set and tell the cast and crew what constitutes bad behaviour. It’s about simple respect and being a decent human being.” She has the same attitude to equal pay. “Women are still fighting for the same pay as their male peers. It’s a fact. It’s tradition. We have to teach the young boys who are becoming young men that women are equal to them. If you’re doing the same job as a man, you should get paid the same amount. It’s a no-brainer.” Of course, issues of femininity and masculinity are a hot topic. I mention the exploration of young men in Adolescence and Wright’s face lights up. “I love Stephen Graham! That show was fantastic – it really showed the power of drama.” Will she do more TV? “There’s so much great TV. I binge certain shows, like Mum with Lesley Manville. She is a favourite. As is Peter Mullan, who was brilliant in After the Party. But you asked about my plans. I’m taking a breather for now. And doing press for The Girlfriend, which I hope people like.” I’m pretty sure they will. “Oh good. Can you put a word out and make that happen?” Job done, I say.
House of Cards’ Robin Wright explains why she had to play her controlling character in new thriller The Girlfriend
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. In 2018, Robin Wright became the lead in the sixth and final season of Netflix’s political thriller House of Cards. Although she was already an established player in the political drama, this was nonetheless a rather unexpected turn of events. Her co-star Kevin Spacey had been fired following allegations of sexual assault (of which he was later cleared) and both fans and critics openly wondered how the hugely successful Netflix show could continue without its Oscar-winning star. In hindsight, such doubts seem absurd. After all, this is the actress who had played Buttercup in the cult hit, The Princess Bride in her early 20s and within ten years had become a global star thanks to her role as Jenny in Forrest Gump. Wright, and her House of Cards character Claire Underwood, blew all expectations out of the water. Underwood’s Machiavellian former lobbyist finally became president and appointed an all-female cabinet – and Wright, who had fought long and hard for equal pay with Spacey, basked in glowing reviews. Yet, journalists kept focusing on Spacey – she told NBC news in 2018 that “we were all surprised, of course, and ultimately saddened” – while fans stopped her in the street to ask how she could “play someone as venal as Claire Underwood”. What they really wanted to know, of course, was if she was like Underwood in real life. To which she emphatically replies, “Not in any shape or form! Apart from the Altuzarra dresses and Louboutin shoes. My job is to portray characters that have nothing to do with me. Acting is a switch that you turn on and off.” We are talking over video call, Wright sitting in a room with wooden beams and tasteful furniture somewhere in the English countryside. She’s “taking a little breather after three years grinding away” at her new Amazon Prime Video series, The Girlfriend. She doesn’t mean to sound jaded – it’s just that TV takes so long to get made, and then there’s the agonising wait to see if it hits the zeitgeist. The Girlfriend, based on a novel of the same name by Michelle Francis, is about Laura (Wright), a glamorous and wealthy woman whose life is upended when her handsome son Daniel (Laurie Davidson) brings home his new girlfriend Cherry (Olivia Cook). There is immediate tension. Beautifully shot in London and Spain, a dual perspective format asks us to decide whether Cherry is a scheming working-class opportunist or if Laura is a paranoid control freak and snob. Wright explains that Andy Serkis’s Imaginarium Productions, who bought the rights to the book, reached out to her at the end of the pandemic, asking if she’d like to direct the pilot and “set the tone of the show”. Having already directed ten episodes of House of Cards, two of Ozark and the 2021 feature film, Land, Wright could see the potential. “I loved how female-driven the narrative is, and I could absolutely see how juicy the show could be,” says Wright. “We were initially looking at other actresses to play Laura, but schedules didn’t work out and I ended up taking the part myself. The role resonated for me in so many ways, not least because I have a son [32-year-old actor Hopper Penn, with former husband Sean Penn] and I can understand why Laura feels so protective towards her child.” I don’t ask about Hopper or his 34-year-old sister Dylan Penn, also an actor, because I’ve been told any personal questions are off the table, which is no surprise, since Wright’s fractious 14-year marriage to Penn was the stuff of tabloid dreams (she is currently happily single). Still, she laughs as she remembers Hopper calling her the previous day. “He’d just seen the trailer for The Girlfriend and couldn’t wait to watch the series. I asked him to reassure me that I’m not like Laura! He giggled and said, ‘Well, you’re a mom…’ And of course, no girl is ever going to be good enough for him, in my view. It’s just inherent in us mommies.” Despite Wright’s American background, The Girlfriend explores the very British issue of class, which she reports was discussed constantly on set. “Class in the UK is certainly more delineated than in the States. Cherry is desperate to experience the kind of privileged life Daniel can offer, whatever the consequences.” View oEmbed on the source website Filming in London meant showing that divide through luxury locations. “We shot in a stunning six-storey house in St John’s Wood with a pool in the basement,” Wright recalls. “And the location manager got us access to an art gallery in central London… it’s such a great city.” At 59, and after four decades “in this business”, Wright can pretty much pick and choose the projects she takes on, but it hasn’t always been an easy journey. “I decided to be selective about the roles I took in my 20s, which was hard because sometimes you have to take what you’re offered to stay in the game. When the kids were babies, I just took them with me; I breastfed my son on Forrest Gump because he was only six months old. “But during my kids’ formative years, I put them first and only worked once a year. I’d try to work in the summer holidays so Hopper and Dylan could come on set with me. God, they hated it; I was taking them away from their sleepovers and their soccer games. It was boring for them: ‘Mom’s on set all day working, and we’re in the trailer waiting for her 30-minute lunch, and she’s exhausted and wants to sleep.’” Talking of Forrest Gump, I wonder if Wright is still in touch with her co-star Tom Hanks? “Well, my friends are the people I met in my late teens, not celebrities. I don’t mingle apart from at awards ceremonies. Tom lives down the street from me and although we never see each other socially, I loved working with him on [the Robert Zemeckis film] Here a few years ago. I asked him why he was still working, since he hardly needs the money. He said, ‘But wow, I love the chat!’ He tells stories on set all day long. He’s hysterically funny – he has the whole set in stitches. He’s a good egg.” It’s tempting to ask if Wright herself still needs to work, but she’s clearly having so much fun in The Girlfriend that such a question might be redundant. Instead, I ask about the unexpected skills actors pick up – “I’m terrified of horses, but when I played Antiope in Wonder Woman, I had to learn to gallop at 100 miles an hour on sand while firing arrows” – and the ongoing impact of #MeToo on her industry. “It’s certainly changed for the better. There are finally rules and regulations and everyone has to follow a code. Companies come on set and tell the cast and crew what constitutes bad behaviour. It’s about simple respect and being a decent human being.” She has the same attitude to equal pay. “Women are still fighting for the same pay as their male peers. It’s a fact. It’s tradition. We have to teach the young boys who are becoming young men that women are equal to them. If you’re doing the same job as a man, you should get paid the same amount. It’s a no-brainer.” Of course, issues of femininity and masculinity are a hot topic. I mention the exploration of young men in Adolescence and Wright’s face lights up. “I love Stephen Graham! That show was fantastic – it really showed the power of drama.” Will she do more TV? “There’s so much great TV. I binge certain shows, like Mum with Lesley Manville. She is a favourite. As is Peter Mullan, who was brilliant in After the Party. But you asked about my plans. I’m taking a breather for now. And doing press for The Girlfriend, which I hope people like.” I’m pretty sure they will. “Oh good. Can you put a word out and make that happen?” Job done, I say. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Cult survivor Magsy reveals the abuse and humiliation she endured in the Jesus Army
Add Inside the Cult of the Jesus Army to your watchlist In the opening scenes of Inside the Cult of the Jesus Army, a group of angry and frustrated adults are talking to a psychotherapist about their lives inside a cult. We then see footage of the community to which they once belonged: a rabble-rousing pastor with wildly unruly hair and spit on his chin whispers to a church full of devoted followers, “I want you. I want you to be mine. Surrender the middle part of you… sin lurks there.” The congregation talk in tongues, their arms in the air, their faces beatific. It’s like something from a horror movie. Firebrand preacher Noel Stanton set up an evangelical church in a small Northamptonshire chapel in the early 1970s, offering the promise of a “new creation”. The reality was a sinister cult where children were beaten and, according to a report published last year, one in six children were sexually abused. The religious sect, originally known as the Jesus Fellowship Church and later the Jesus Army, had more than 2,000 members at its peak, many of whom lived in large communal houses across central England. The abuse was finally uncovered, following a BBC investigation in 2019, with former members revealing that the adults would watch them undress or take a bath when they were young. The BBC also exposed allegations of abuse on a “prolific scale”, including rapes and “brainwashing”. The Jesus Army closed shortly afterwards, a decade after Stanton’s death and following around 200 complaints of abuse, with most claims relating to incidents in the 80s and 90s. Jesus Army survivor Magsy, 48, was born into the community and lived in one of their houses, in Sheepfold in Northamptonshire. Her mother, a graphic designer, joined the community having struggled to raise her two young daughters alone. Sheepfold was initially “amazing”; there were fields to play in, gooseberries to be picked with other kids. But, like many of the children, she was separated from her mother and the church became her family. She talks in the documentary about time spent watching people “playing guitar, speaking in tongues, some looking possessed”. Magsy grew up thinking “Noel [Stanton] was next to God”. She once gave him a handmade card and he thanked her, which was “such a precious moment, such a feeling of love from the king of kings. I loved him.” It wasn’t until she started therapy that she realised he was a “total wrong ’un”. She recalls the time she had chicken pox and couldn’t stop itching through her sleep suit. The Jesus Army members were sitting in a lounge, playing guitars and praying. “The senior leader of our household told everyone to stop what they were doing. He said the devil was making me ill and disrupting the meeting. It was terrifying. I was trying so hard not to itch. I had to stand on a chair in the middle of the room while the leader preached that I was possessed.” When Magsy was eight years old, her mother finally left. Magsy has since been diagnosed with CPTSD [Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, which arises from repeated traumatic experience], goes to specialist post-cult therapy to help her come to terms with her traumatic experience growing up inside the community and says she has struggled to accept what happened to her as a child. I ask Magsy if, like many of the children in the Jesus Army, she was sexually abused. “I don’t think so. But were the children in the Jesus Army abused? 100 per cent. We were the bottom of the pile. I was the daughter of a single mum. I was brown. I was the lowest of the low.” Following a police investigation, several men have been sentenced for the indecent and sexual assault of victims. Hundreds of former victims have been paid compensation for alleged sexual, physical and psychological abuse. Magsy is in a survivors’ Facebook group, a WhatsApp group with people her age who were part of the Jesus Army and, when pushed by her sister, she applied for compensation offered by the Jesus Fellowship Community Trust, made up of professional trustees brought in to dissolve the organisation and its assets. She was brought up to “keep everything quiet… Of course I’m worried about friends I’ve had since I was 11 finding out about my past when they watch the documentary, but I agreed to take part for one reason: this can’t happen again.”
The broadcaster on being an anxious child — and an indulgent grandmother
What’s the view from your sofa? My living room is lined with bookshelves from floor to ceiling with Penguin and Virago Classics and the books I read while studying English at Cambridge. There’s a battered sofa. I keep thinking of replacing it, but I can’t be bothered. Did getting a first at Cambridge open any doors in broadcasting? No one at work has ever asked me about my degree. I wrote two articles that provoked attention. I appeared once on TV and once on the radio and made waves. One story was about the death of a Jewish mother, the other about undiscovered erogenous zones in response to Sarah Ferguson and the toe sucking, which I discussed on Richard & Judy. I was then offered a contract to appear on the show regularly. I’ve never done a proper job interview. Who controls the remote in your house? Me. I live on my own these days. I’ve been out every night for two years and five months [since Feltz separated from her fiancé, singer Ben Ofoedu]. There have only been maybe five nights where it’s been me in front of the TV with my dinner on a tray, because I don’t want to be at home, eating alone. What TV have you enjoyed recently? I’m watching The Gilded Age, but I’m not enjoying it much; it’s remarkably stilted and incredibly dull. I’m also persevering with And Just like That…, which is also abysmal. And I’m watching Love Island. Thankfully my parents are dead, because they’d never forgive me. Have you given up caring what others think of you? My parents were extremely demanding and judgemental. They basically told me how lacking I was in every way that matters. If your parents are busy telling you what a disappointment you are, you can’t really care what everyone else thinks. I tried to placate, appease and enchant my parents, but always failed. My mother’s been dead for 30 years exactly. She wasn’t a baddie. I loved her very much – and I really miss her. What makes a good parent? It’s about being on your child’s side, even if your child is wrong. You have to support your child, nurture and encourage them. I was an absurdly indulgent mother and I’m an absurdly indulgent grandmother. You’ve teamed up with your daughter Saskia Joss for the podcast Help! My Child’s Anxious. What’s it about? Saskia was a primary school teacher before qualifying as a child therapist. She was giving a talk about children’s mental health when a publisher in the audience suggested she write a book, which became Help! My Child’s Anxiety Is Giving Me Anxiety. There’s been an epidemic of children’s anxiety in this country – over 500 young people a day are referred to mental health services for anxiety. It’s stopping children from going to school, eating lunch, having friends, enjoying life. And the parents feel humiliated, embarrassed and anxious themselves. Our podcast offers excellent tips, tools and tricks. Saskia is adamant that children can overcome anxiety. What do you bring to the podcast? Saskia and I aren’t in similar fields, so there was no reason for our work to cross over, but here we are. I’m thrilled about it, and I drive her home afterwards, which means I see my grandchildren. I bring the perspective of my generation and being a mother. I’m from an era when children with anxiety hadn’t been invented. Saskia explains to me how seriously it must be taken. Children need to feel safe. Were you an anxious child? I was a thinking, concerned child. I remember becoming aware of my own mortality at the age of five and thinking, “Now I know I’m going to die, I’m never going to enjoy a simple day again.” I’ve now got four thoughtful, cerebral grandchildren, all of whom look as if they’re really concerned about absolutely everything all the time. Help! My Child’s Anxious is available from your podcast provider.
Vanessa Feltz: 'My parents told me I was lacking in every way that matters'
The broadcaster on being an anxious child — and an indulgent grandmother.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. What’s the view from your sofa? My living room is lined with book-shelves from floor to ceiling with Penguin and Virago Classics and the books I read while studying English at Cambridge. There’s a battered sofa. I keep thinking of replacing it, but I can’t be bothered. Did getting a first at Cambridge open any doors in broadcasting? No one at work has ever asked me about my degree. I wrote two articles that provoked attention. I appeared once on TV and once on the radio and made waves. One story was about the death of a Jewish mother, the other about undiscovered erogenous zones in response to Sarah Ferguson and the toe sucking, which I discussed on Richard & Judy. I was then offered a contract to appear on the show regularly. I’ve never done a proper job interview. Who controls the remote in your house? Me. I live on my own these days. I’ve been out every night for two years and five months [since Feltz separated from her fiancé, singer Ben Ofoedu]. There have only been maybe five nights where it’s been me in front of the TV with my dinner on a tray, because I don’t want to be at home, eating alone. What TV have you enjoyed recently? I’m watching The Gilded Age, but I’m not enjoying it much; it’s remarkably stilted and incredibly dull. I’m also persevering with And Just like That…, which is also abysmal. And I’m watching Love Island. Thankfully my parents are dead, because they’d never forgive me. Have you given up caring what others think of you? My parents were extremely demanding and judgemental. They basically told me how lacking I was in every way that matters. If your parents are busy telling you what a disappointment you are, you can’t really care what everyone else thinks. I tried to placate, appease and enchant my parents, but always failed. My mother’s been dead for 30 years exactly. She wasn’t a baddie. I loved her very much – and I really miss her. What makes a good parent? It’s about being on your child’s side, even if your child is wrong. You have to support your child, nurture and encourage them. I was an absurdly indulgent mother and I’m an absurdly indulgent grandmother. You’ve teamed up with your daughter Saskia Joss for the podcast Help! My Child’s Anxious. What’s it about? Saskia was a primary school teacher before qualifying as a child therapist. She was giving a talk about children’s mental health when a publisher in the audience suggested she write a book, which became Help! My Child’s Anxiety Is Giving Me Anxiety. There’s been an epidemic of children’s anxiety in this country – over 500 young people a day are referred to mental health services for anxiety. It’s stopping children from going to school, eating lunch, having friends, enjoying life. And the parents feel humiliated, embarrassed and anxious themselves. Our podcast offers excellent tips, tools and tricks. Saskia is adamant that children can overcome anxiety. What do you bring to the podcast? Saskia and I aren’t in similar fields, so there was no reason for our work to cross over, but here we are. I’m thrilled about it, and I drive her home afterwards, which means I see my grandchildren. I bring the perspective of my generation and being a mother. I’m from an era when children with anxiety hadn’t been invented. Saskia explains to me how seriously it must be taken. Children need to feel safe. Were you an anxious child? I was a thinking, concerned child. I remember becoming aware of my own mortality at the age of five and thinking, “Now I know I’m going to die, I’m never going to enjoy a simple day again.” I’ve now got four thoughtful, cerebral grandchildren, all of whom look as if they’re really concerned about absolutely everything all the time. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Check out more of our Entertainment coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what else is on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Nicholas Pinnock on being a Mind ambassador and six-week stay in mental-health facility: "I was suicidal"
Pinnock stars in Channel 4's first digital original drama, Beth.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. London-born Nicholas Pinnock, 51, has played Anna Friel’s ex-husband in Marcella, a former soldier in This Town, and he’s now starring opposite Abbey Lee in Beth, a three-part C4 drama about a couple whose relationship implodes after the birth of their baby, which will be available to watch on linear TV, streaming and YouTube. He also stars with Amanda Seyfried in the US drama Long Bright River about two cops working in a city hit by the opioid crisis. Where are you up to right now? I’m in Malta, filming [the BBC series] Two Weeks in August. I’m entering new territory because it’s a comedy. I don’t know if I can deliver, but I’d rather fail than not try at all. When I’m offered a role, I ask myself if it’s a character that scares me. If so, great! I’d never played a role like Jason in Marcella, and I didn’t know if I could play this seemingly heartless bloke in Beth. Whereas in Top Boy I played a character with a moral compass who was from a community about which I knew nothing. Did you feel nervous when you played Jesus in The Book of Clarence and Nelson Mandela in Mandela: The Prison Years? Yes! Those were huge challenges. Everyone knows Jesus and Mandela, so you have to represent them without caricature. You lived in Saudi Arabia as a child. How was that? We relocated from London in the early-'80s when I was five and stayed until I was 12; my dad was an electrical engineer and worked for a contractor out there. I went to an American international school, but it was still a culture shock. My cousins and friends in the UK were discovering hip hop and I was walking around Saudi Arabia on my own, with a boombox. The people were some of the kindest I’ve ever met, despite attitudes towards women and immigrants, which I didn’t understand as a child. Did the experience of a different culture enhance your acting? I understood that although we don’t look the same, we’re all the same underneath. The notion that we’re different based on the colour of our skin is ridiculous. We’re much more alike than we are different. As an actor, it made me realise that there’s no character I can’t play, no story I can’t tell: male, female, straight, gay. We can fit into any skin if we understand the human condition. I’m not a father, but I play fathers. I hardly drink, but I can play an alcoholic. Is that why you prefer not to be referred to as a ‘black actor’? I don’t even know what a ‘black actor’ is! If you say I’m starring in a film with black actors, people will think it’s exclusively for a black audience. These labels were designed to control and marginalise. I’m not playing that game any more – not until Benedict Cumberbatch is referred to as ‘a white actor’. There’s no equality in me being ‘a black actor’ and him being ‘an actor’. Did Uzo Oleh write Beth with you in mind? Uzo told me he was writing this series three or four years ago. I read it, thought it was brilliant, gave him some notes. I had no idea he was thinking of me for Joe until my agent sent me the script last year. I knew I had to be involved. It has everything to do with the colour of your skin, but also nothing to do with it. Joe and Molly are in love and want a baby that represents them both, but nature decides otherwise. Joe suspects the worst because of a lack of information – that’s happened to me so many times in relationships. How do you watch TV? When I’m acting, I mainly watch Asterix & Obelix on Netflix! In my off time, I’ll binge a whole series, but I’ve never seen Breaking Bad, The Wire or Adolescence. I watched a lot of TV as a kid. I became aware of my family reacting to the square thing in the corner when I was four. They’d roll around laughing to Cannon and Ball and when Elvis died in 1977, we watched his movies, and I wanted to be like him, singing, dancing, acting. At 12, I was obsessed with The Singing Detective. Dennis Potter revolutionised telly. He became my benchmark; I wanted to be great. Did you watch Mamma Mia! before starring opposite Amanda Seyfried in Long Bright River? No! I just knew Amanda was a big deal in Hollywood. She is the best, most beautiful, awesome nutcase I’ve ever met. I’m totally in awe of her. I hope to work with her again. You’ve also produced a film about boxing called Heavyweight… It’s the first film I’ve produced and I’m very proud of it. It’s about the vulnerability of a sportsman and the importance of community when it comes to mental health. I recently became an ambassador for Mind because I struggle myself. Last year I spent six weeks in a residential mental-health facility in Tennessee. I was spiralling, I was suicidal; I didn’t want to die, I just wanted peace. The first ten days I didn’t want to interact with anyone. People scared me. Once I started to lean in, the community saved me. We bonded and became an inseparable force. We have an Instagram chain; I can reach out and say I’m not feeling great and within minutes one of them will call. Community is everything. How have you been looking after yourself since? I have therapy twice a week. I talk to my friends, my sister, my niece and nephews. Exercise. I listen to myself; if I don’t feel like socialising, I no longer feel guilty about it. The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Beth airs on Channel 4 on Monday 9th June at 10pm. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
The actor was inspired by Elvis and Dennis Potter — just don’t ask him about the plot of Adolescence…
Add Beth to your watchlist London-born Nicholas Pinnock, 51, has played Anna Friel’s ex-husband in Marcella, a former soldier in This Town and he’s now starring opposite Abbey Lee in Beth, a three-part C4 drama about a couple whose relationship implodes after the birth of their baby, which will be available to watch on linear TV, streaming and YouTube. He also stars with Amanda Seyfried in the US drama Long Bright River about two cops working in a city hit by the opioid crisis. Where are you up to right now? I’m in Malta, filming [the BBC series] Two Weeks in August. I’m entering new territory because it’s a comedy. I don’t know if I can deliver, but I’d rather fail than not try at all. When I’m offered a role, I ask myself if it’s a character that scares me. If so, great! I’d never played a role like Jason in Marcella, and I didn’t know if I could play this seemingly heartless bloke in Beth. Whereas in Top Boy I played a character with a moral compass who was from a community about which I knew nothing. Did you feel nervous when you played Jesus in The Book of Clarence and Nelson Mandela in Mandela: The Prison Years? Yes! Those were huge challenges. Everyone knows Jesus and Mandela, so you have to represent them without caricature. You lived in Saudi Arabia as a child. How was that? We relocated from London in the early-80s when I was five and stayed until I was 12; my dad was an electrical engineer and worked for a contractor out there. I went to an American international school, but it was still a culture shock. My cousins and friends in the UK were discovering hip hop and I was walking around Saudi Arabia on my own, with a boombox. The people were some of the kindest I’ve ever met, despite attitudes towards women and immigrants, which I didn’t understand as a child. Did the experience of a different culture enhance your acting? I understood that although we don’t look the same, we’re all the same underneath. The notion that we’re different based on the colour of our skin is ridiculous. We’re much more alike than we are different. As an actor, it made me realise that there’s no character I can’t play, no story I can’t tell: male, female, straight, gay. We can fit into any skin if we understand the human condition. I’m not a father, but I play fathers. I hardly drink, but I can play an alcoholic. Is that why you prefer not to be referred to as a ‘black actor’? I don’t even know what a ‘black actor’ is! If you say I’m starring in a film with black actors, people will think it’s exclusively for a black audience. These labels were designed to control and marginalise. I’m not playing that game any more – not until Benedict Cumberbatch is referred to as ‘a white actor’. There’s no equality in me being ‘a black actor’ and him being ‘an actor’. Did Uzo Oleh write Beth, with you in mind? Uzo told me he was writing this series three or four years ago. I read it, thought it was brilliant, gave him some notes. I had no idea he was thinking of me for Joe until my agent sent me the script last year. I knew I had to be involved. It has everything to do with the colour of your skin, but also nothing to do with it. Joe and Molly are in love and want a baby that represents them both, but nature decides otherwise. Joe suspects the worst because of a lack of information – that’s happened to me so many times in relationships. How do you watch TV? When I’m acting, I mainly watch Asterix & Obelix on Netflix! In my off time, I’ll binge a whole series, but I’ve never seen Breaking Bad, The Wire or Adolescence. I watched a lot of TV as a kid. I became aware of my family reacting to the square thing in the corner when I was four. They’d roll around laughing to Cannon and Ball and when Elvis died in 1977, we watched his movies, and I wanted to be like him, singing, dancing, acting. At 12, I was obsessed with The Singing Detective. Dennis Potter revolutionised telly. He became my benchmark; I wanted to be great. Did you watch Mamma Mia! before starring opposite Amanda Seyfried in Long Bright River? No! I just knew Amanda was a big deal in Hollywood. She is the best, most beautiful, awesome nutcase I’ve ever met. I’m totally in awe of her. I hope to work with her again. You’ve also produced a film about boxing called Heavyweight… It’s the first film I’ve produced and I’m very proud of it. It’s about the vulnerability of a sportsman and the importance of community when it comes to mental health. I recently became an ambassador for Mind because I struggle myself. Last year I spent six weeks in a residential mental-health facility in Tennessee. I was spiralling, I was suicidal; I didn’t want to die, I just wanted peace. The first ten days I didn’t want to interact with anyone. People scared me. Once I started to lean in, the community saved me. We bonded and became an inseparable force. We have an Instagram chain; I can reach out and say I’m not feeling great and within minutes one of them will call. Community is everything. How have you been looking after yourself since? I have therapy twice a week. I talk to my friends, my sister, my niece and nephews. Exercise. I listen to myself; if I don’t feel like socialising, I no longer feel guilty about it. Beth is on Tuesday at 10.00pm on C4, C4’s YouTube channel and C4 Streaming; all episodes of Long Bright River are available on C4 Streaming
Springwatch is celebrating 20 years – but how did it first captivate the nation and can it survive?
Add Springwatch to your watchlist What can viewers expect from the show this year? Michaela Strachan The delight of Springwatch is that we never know! We tell the stories nature gives us. We’re in a new location – the National Trust’s Longshaw Estate in the Peak District – so we’ll be tracking wood warblers and curlews. Chris Packham There will be a different ecology in the Peak District; the habitat looks like heathland but it’s moorland. This year some of our more common bird species have started to nest earlier due to this warm, dry spring, which means they’ll have probably fledged by the time we’re on air. We’re expecting redstarts, pied flycatchers, wood warblers and ring ouzels. Tell us about the innovation of Springwatch Street — rigging cameras in gardens in Sheffield. Chris It’s about encouraging people to love the community of animals they live with, including nocturnal ones like badgers, foxes, rats and hedgehogs. How will you mark Springwatch’s 20th birthday on screen? Michaela We’re not going to spend the whole season looking back, but we’re the only programme that has followed British wildlife for two decades. Scientists have learnt things from us because our cameras film around the clock. You have worked together for a long time now — how would you describe your on-screen chemistry? Michaela I’m a menopausal woman and Chris is an autistic bloke! He’s a delight to work with. We’ve known each other for 30-odd years so we play to each other’s strengths; he’s got the science background [a BSc in zoology] and I’m the storyteller. I used to feel inadequate because his knowledge is unbelievable. Now I’m comfortable with what I bring to the show. Chris Menopausal and autistic – what a combination! She’s grown up with my quirks. I’m not a sociable person, so Michaela has to invite herself to my house in the New Forest, where she’s always welcome. We have a compatibility through difference. We’d never let one another down. What challenges does Springwatch face in the age of streaming? Michaela We have great production values, even though our budget has been cut. There are positives to streaming, too; you can watch Springwatch on catch up! Chris We’ve invested in our Facebook, TikTok and Instagram pages and get massive hits. Springwatch will always be needed; the UK is one of the most nature-depleted countries in the world and wildlife is going to hell in a handcart. What’s your most memorable moment from the show? Michaela Once Chris wasn’t feeling well and just as we were about to broadcast, he started throwing up. He said he could still go on air, but he obviously couldn’t. Chris My answer is broader. I’d choose the advancement of technology. AI is enormously useful because it allows identification of species and analysis of data. Of course we have concerns about the misuse of AI, but if used appropriately, it’s incredible. What are your thoughts on Tony Blair saying net zero policies were “doomed to fail”? Chris I take my guidance from scientists. Our hope is that Springwatch can cut through all the mistruths, as we share a deep-rooted affinity with the natural world with our audience. Is there one way we can all help? Michaela Don’t put paving stones or plastic grass in your gardens! Make a wildlife-friendly garden and you’ll be amazed by how much wildlife appears and how easy it is to maintain. Chris Give young people opportunities, as we do on the show. We show their films, engage with them on social media – anything to give them a platform to pick up the mantle. NOSY NEIGHBOURS Springwatch wildlife researcher Jake Baddams on bugging a whole street What is Springwatch Street? We’ve featured people’s gardens over the past 20 years, but we’ve never bugged a street to see how urban gardens connect. It’s a way of looking at insects, invertebrates, the mammals who sneak into your garden and of course birds, which people are more familiar with if they have feeders. Why now? We first discussed it before the pandemic, but the idea was put on hold until we looked at Sheffield. My favourite bird, the swift, is declining in numbers but there are still big colonies in Sheffield — they nest in houses. I did a recce of a street of terraced houses where swifts nest and residents told me there were other unexpected comings and goings. One lady has heavy boulders around her pond and one morning she found them in the pond. The only animal strong enough to do that is a badger! Another neighbour saw a badger crossing the road. You wouldn’t expect badgers in an urban setting. How does a badger get into a fenced garden? They are incredible diggers, but we’ve got footage of them climbing walls at hip height. There is footage — not ours — of badgers climbing trees to access bird feeders. They’re more determined and athletic than you’d think. How did you persuade residents to take part? I resurrected my newspaper round days and put leaflets through every door saying we were interested in talking about the wildlife in their garden. When people emailed us, we checked out their gardens and set up camera traps. We’ve got a nice cluster of houses in a very long street so we can work out how the animals are moving between gardens. What do you hope Springwatch Street will ultimately achieve? Apart from footage of badgers scaling things, we hope people will put cameras in their gardens. Anyone can create a mini-nature reserve in their green space, however small. If you know what’s in your garden, you will be more inclined to protect it. We hope the street can be replicated anywhere in the UK in future series — unless badgers destroy our cameras! IN THE BEGINNING Naturalist and author Stephen Moss was the show’s original series producer Imagine putting on a show. You’ve hired the very best technical team and found a stunning setting in the heart of the countryside, an organic farm in Devon. The clock ticks down to 8pm and there’s only one worry – instead of actors, we’re working with wildlife. And as every naturalist knows, nature never follows the script! That’s what I felt on a May bank holiday evening in 2005 as the first series of Springwatch went live on air. It dawned on me that the BBC had taken a huge leap of faith in both us and the wildlife. As Bill Oddie, Kate Humble and Simon King introduced the show, I somehow knew it would be a hit. Yet back then, none of us realised just how big Springwatch would ultimately become. Two decades on, it’s a national institution, reaching millions of viewers and converting them to a lifelong love of the natural world. The turning point came during the first week, when someone in the BBC’s audience research department realised that we were getting well over three million viewers – far more than Big Brother and Celebrity Love Island. They put out a press release, describing Springwatch as “genuine reality TV”. For, unlike human-based reality shows, where producers can manipulate the contestants’ relationships, we simply couldn’t control the wild creatures at the heart of our series. What really appealed to the audience was that its subjects were familiar and quintessentially British. We showed blue tits and badgers – creatures our viewers knew and loved, and could see in their own garden. And if sometimes we ended up with what one cynic described as “hours and hours of badgers doing bugger all”, then they enjoyed that too – because it was real! Twenty years on what’s Springwatch’s future? BBC budget cuts have affected its scope, but it attracts a loyal audience and showcases uplifting conservation stories. Everyone involved in the show – then and now – should be proud of what we’ve achieved. And the real stars – blue tits and badgers – can take a bow, too!
Springwatch hosts hope the show "can cut through all the mistruths" about climate change
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Springwatch is celebrating 20 years – but how did it first captivate the nation and can it survive? We spoke to Michaela Strachan and Chris Packham about what's ahead for the beloved nature series. What can viewers expect from the show this year? Michaela Strachan: The delight of Springwatch is that we never know! We tell the stories nature gives us. We’re in a new location – the National Trust’s Longshaw Estate in the Peak District – so we’ll be tracking wood warblers and curlews. Chris Packham: There will be a different ecology in the Peak District; the habitat looks like heathland but it’s moorland. This year some of our more common bird species have started to nest earlier due to this warm, dry spring, which means they’ll have probably fledged by the time we’re on air. We’re expecting redstarts, pied flycatchers, wood warblers and ring ouzels. Tell us about the innovation of Springwatch Street – rigging cameras in gardens in Sheffield. Chris: It’s about encouraging people to love the community of animals they live with, including nocturnal ones like badgers, foxes, rats and hedgehogs. How will you mark Springwatch's 20th birthday on screen? Michaela: We’re not going to spend the whole season looking back, but we’re the only programme that has followed British wildlife for two decades. Scientists have learnt things from us because our cameras film around the clock. You have worked together for a long time now – how would you describe your on-screen chemistry? Michaela: I’m a menopausal woman and Chris is an autistic bloke! He’s a delight to work with. We’ve known each other for 30-odd years so we play to each other’s strengths; he’s got the science background [a BSc in zoology] and I’m the storyteller. I used to feel inadequate because his knowledge is unbelievable. Now I’m comfortable with what I bring to the show. Chris: Menopausal and autistic – what a combination! She’s grown up with my quirks. I’m not a sociable person, so Michaela has to invite herself to my house in the New Forest, where she’s always welcome. We have a compatibility through difference. We’d never let one another down. What challenges does Springwatch face in the age of streaming? Michaela: We have great production values, even though our budget has been cut. There are positives to streaming, too; you can watch Springwatch on catch-up! Chris: We’ve invested in our Facebook, TikTok and Instagram pages and get massive hits. Springwatch will always be needed; the UK is one of the most nature-depleted countries in the world and wildlife is going to hell in a handcart. What’s your most memorable moment from the show? Michaela: Once Chris wasn’t feeling well and just as we were about to broadcast, he started throwing up. He said he could still go on air, but he obviously couldn’t. Chris: My answer is broader. I’d choose the advancement of technology. AI is enormously useful because it allows identification of species and analysis of data. Of course we have concerns about the misuse of AI, but if used appropriately, it’s incredible. View Green Video on the source website What are your thoughts on Tony Blair saying net zero policies were "doomed to fail"? Chris: I take my guidance from scientists. Our hope is that Springwatch can cut through all the mistruths, as we share a deep-rooted affinity with the natural world with our audience. Is there one way we can all help? Michaela: Don’t put paving stones or plastic grass in your gardens! Make a wildlife-friendly garden and you’ll be amazed by how much wildlife appears and how easy it is to maintain. Chris: Give young people opportunities, as we do on the show. We show their films, engage with them on social media – anything to give them a platform to pick up the mantle. Read more: Chris Packham reveals one TV show to watch – and it's not what you think Chris Packham celebrates the work of wildlife photographer Rachel Bigsby The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Springwatch is available to watch on BBC iPlayer. Check out more of our Documentaries coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Goodbye phones and comfort zones, hello sketchy maps, pressure and stress – Race across the World is back!
Add Race across the World to your watchlist Five pairs of travellers – an ex-husband and wife, two sets of siblings, a mother and son and a teenage couple – travel 14,000km from Huanghaucheng in China to Kanniyakumari in India in series five of Race across the World. As ever, they have no phones and just £22 each per day as they vie to win £20,000.
Caroline (60, housewife) and Tom (21, handyman)
Add Race across the World to your watchlist Whose idea was it to sign up? Caroline Mine! I’m a country girl who gave up a career to be a mother. I wanted to feel alive again. Tom I didn’t think we’d get through, but I wanted to support Mum. What were you most apprehensive about? Caroline Failing in front of Thomas. Tom Letting Mum down. Mum getting bored of me. And handing my phone in... Did you agree to prioritise racing or sightseeing? Tom We thought we had time to prepare, but before we knew it, we were standing on the Great Wall of China without a game plan. I was keener than Mum to sightsee. Caroline I thought I just wanted to race, but that quickly changed. I wanted to open my mind to China, this incredible country we were travelling through. Did you ever come close to quitting? Caroline I had serious doubts early on, but we are both steely. Tom At the start, in Beijing. We were struggling to communicate with anyone, and all the trains were full. I felt useless. Was there a luxury you wish you’d had? Caroline A beautiful clean pillow – we stayed in some pretty filthy places. Tom I had a luxury, an MP3 player loaded with great music. What did you learn about each other? Tom That Mum would never give up, which in turn motivated me. Caroline He has amazing empathy and anticipated my needs. Would you two go on another adventure? Caroline Yes, it changed my life. Tom Mum and I already have plans to go. But with our phones and the option to relax!
Elizabeth (33, educationalist) and Letitia (26, special needs teaching assistant)
Add Race across the World to your watchlist Whose idea was it to sign up? Letitia We watched the show as a family and decided to apply because we both love travelling, languages and culture. Elizabeth We’ve also never travelled together. We wanted an experience that would bring us closer together as I lived in Italy for a long time. What were you most apprehensive about? Elizabeth The pressure of making the right choice quickly. I love taking time to think about things. Letitia Travelling into the unknown, the budget. I was worried I would be tired, hungry, grumpy... I didn’t want to jeopardise the race or stop us from having fun. Did the race test your relationship? Letitia At times. We had to be patient and respectful. We focused on the goal and were quite determined, so we always pushed through. We didn’t always share our feelings in case we upset each other. Elizabeth We shied away from conflict. But after the shock of racing 24/7, you have to work it out. How many times did you feel like quitting? Letitia Maybe on the first day, when we were trying to sort transport. I was thinking, “We have to go all the way to India. It’s a lot.” I had to switch my mindset, otherwise I’d have broken down on that first leg. Elizabeth After that first day I was close. But we kept going. Did you pack a luxury? Letitia Wipes! I wish I’d packed more. Elizabeth Essential oils for when the smells got bad. How did taking part in Race across the World change you? Letitia I learnt that I could stick to a goal. I can be disciplined. I became more adventurous. It changed my mentality. Elizabeth It made me more self-aware. I’m more anxious than I thought I was. Towards the end I was letting go and taking each day as it came, which was liberating and much more enjoyable.
Finn (18, engineering student) and Sioned (19, customer service assistant)
Add Race across the World to your watchlist Whose idea was it to sign up? Sioned My parents suggested I applied with my brother, which I didn’t fancy! Fin I didn’t know anything about the show; I only watched it after we found out we were doing the race. Were you concerned about being the youngest contestants? Sioned We wanted to do the race before the rest of our lives start. We’ve just come back from Australia; we’re addicted now! Fin We’re young enough to be digital natives, but within a week of handing in my phone, I’d forgotten it. We had to speak to people, which pushed us out of our comfort zone. Did you worry about whether your relationship would survive? Sioned We’ve been together for nearly five years. I wasn’t worried, but maybe that was a bit naïve! Fin If we could get through the race, we could get through anything. We had to be together every single minute, which put our relationship to the test – in a good way. What were you most apprehensive about? Fin I’ve got type one diabetes, so I was worried about having access to food. Trying to read food packaging in different languages was a challenge. Sioned I love to be organised. I can be a bit of a stress-head, but I started to loosen up as the race progressed. How many times did you feel like quitting? Fin None! Sioned I said I was going to quit at least 100 times, but I didn’t really mean it. What did you learn? Fin To be grateful for the everyday luxuries. Speaking to strangers. Sioned Confidence. And, like Fin, learning to talk to people; as a generation we tend to be immersed in our phones and to avoid human interaction. We no longer rely on our phones so much.
Yin (54, data manager) and Gaz (52, sales director)
Add Race across the World to your watchlist Whose idea was it to sign up? Yin It was mine; eight months before we applied, my partner passed away suddenly. I went through a period of bad mental health and ended up staying with Gaz. I thought that the show might help me get back to life. The only person I could do it with was Gaz because, having been married, we know each other inside out. Gaz I’d never watched the show so didn’t know what I was signing up for. It might sound weird because we’re divorced, but I couldn’t imagine doing it with anyone else. How did you feel when you were told that the race started in China? Yin I was ambivalent about going to China because I don’t speak Mandarin. It confuses people. I initially wanted to run for the hills. I’m British-born Chinese and grew up in a traditional household in a white suburban town where I was subjected to regular racism. Gaz It was hard knowing how Yin would feel. But we just had to deal with the cards we were dealt. The food was amazing! Did either of you ever feel like quitting? Gaz The map we were given was dreadful because it only had major towns and cities on it. But we didn’t ever get to the point of wanting to jump on a plane and come home. Yin There were moments when I was close to quitting, but I enjoyed the challenges of figuring out how to get from A to B. Did you always agree on when to prioritise racing or sightseeing? Gaz We didn’t discuss it! We went all guns blazing. Everywhere we went was amazing. Yin We did sometimes choose sightseeing, knowing there were places we’d never see again.
Melvyn (65, driving instructor) and Brian (62, retired financial adviser)
Add Race across the World to your watchlist Whose idea was it to sign up? Melvyn Mine. I saw the first series and thought, “I can do that.” My wife would never want to go, so I told Brian to watch it. Brian We applied twice and got lucky the second time. You’re always bickering and laughing at the same time. Who’s the most annoying? Melvyn Brian! Brian Melvyn is very loud, as you’ll see. What were you most apprehensive about? Melvyn The unexpected and how to respond. Not speaking the language. Brian Not having any contact with my family, but after a few days I got used to it. I wasn’t sure we’d really be on our own, but we were; the film crew don’t help and wouldn’t, for example, tell you if you had left your passport behind. How often did you feel like quitting? Brian I struggled early on. I told the crew I was upset and missed home. But you take a big breath and go for it. Melvyn I didn’t want to embarrass my wife by quitting! Did you take any luxuries? Melvyn A watch. Brian That’s not a luxury. Melvyn And a calculator. An MP3 player. Brian Blimey, transferring all the music from my CDs took for ever. And ear plugs for when Melvyn got too much! Did you get on with the younger travellers? Brian Fin and Sioned are so young, but such a lovely couple. Tom is a super guy. It was brilliant hanging out with the other contestants. Melvyn I teach a lot of 17- and 18-year-olds to drive – youngsters keep you young. Did you prioritise racing or sightseeing? Brian We went inland to do some sightseeing in the first leg. Melvyn Neither of us has a good sense of direction, which didn’t help.
How the Industry actor relished the chance to play the young Richard Burton
Add Mr Burton to your watchlist Were you a fan of Richard Burton’s before playing him as a young man in Mr Burton? I went through a phase of studying actors like Richard Burton when I was at drama school [he attended the Drama Centre in London]. Richard always burns off the screen. Last year I saw The Motive and the Cue, a play about Richard’s relationship with Sir John Gielgud when they were doing Hamlet on Broadway. I watched it, loved it, became mildly obsessed with Richard and a few weeks later, by chance, I was asked to audition for Mr Burton. What kind of research did you undertake? I was selective in what I read. We weren’t covering the hellraising years, so I had to be careful not to get too fascinated with what happened after our story finished. We wanted the DNA of that in our film, but it’s not the story we’re telling. Anyway, you could never make a film of Richard’s whole life; what he packed into it was staggering. What was it like meeting Richard’s daughter, Kate? I had barely come to terms with getting the role when I was asked if I’d like to meet her! I was feeling the burden of playing an iconic person, a Welsh national hero. It’s not the same gig as playing a fictional character; as an actor you can be bad, but you can’t be wrong. I had to take ownership of Richard, but then I met Kate and thought, “He’s not mine at all; he belongs to you!” We had some special conversations on set. She was so generous with his spirit and memory.
Richard Burton’s Hollywood life captivated the world but his journey there, explored in a new film, is far more interesting, says his daughter
Add Mr Burton to your watchlist Richard Jenkins is a tricky teenager. He lives with his sister and brother-in-law in a Welsh mining town near Port Talbot, his mother long since dead, his father an alcoholic. This is 1942 and young Richard dreams of becoming an actor, but his brother-in-law insists he leave school and pay his way – the Second World War means rations and shortages. But Richard’s English teacher, Philip Burton, sees something in the lad and mentors him, with Richard eventually becoming his legal ward and taking his name. Of course, Richard Burton went on to become a global star of both screen and stage until his death in 1984 at the age of 58. He was not only nominated for seven Academy Awards, but was also, according to critic Kenneth Tynan, “the natural successor to [Laurence] Olivier”. Married five times, he was half of one of the first celebrity power couples when wed – twice, consecutively – to Elizabeth Taylor (who herself was married an impressive eight times). It is his hellraising years with Taylor that usually generate interest, but a new film, Mr Burton, eschews the rock ’n’ roll part of Burton’s life in favour of zooming in on his tricky teens. The biopic, starring Toby Jones as Philip Burton, Harry Lawtey as young Richard and Lesley Manville as Ma Smith, Philip’s landlady, is a fascinating journey through those early years. We know Jones and Manville are sublime actors, but Lawtey, whose breakthrough role was in Industry, is a revelation: at the start he’s a gangly kid with a broad Welsh accent, but Philip Burton takes him into the mountains to shout Shakespearean speeches into the air for hours on end and, by 1951, he’s performing Hal in Henry IV, his voice mellifluous, modulated and rich. Kate Burton, the 67-year-old daughter of Richard and his first wife, Sybil Williams, who was also an actor, usually makes a point of not watching films about her dad, but Mr Burton is different. “There have been so many biopics through the years,” she says. “I know the one with Dominic West and Helena Bonham Carter [Burton & Taylor] is apparently very good and I love those two actors very much, but as the child of… well, I’m happy if everyone is so fascinated by Dad and Elizabeth, but what’s thrilling about Mr Burton is that it’s about Dad when he was young. Philip did an extraordinarily beautiful thing for Dad – we all have great teachers who make a difference, but he was something else. I’m proud to refer to him as my grandfather.” Is she bored of her father’s reputation as a hellraiser? “Oh, my God! I’m so sick of it! Look, it was definitely part of his life. I accept that Dad and Elizabeth ushered in the notion of the paparazzi. It’s just funny to me because I had a very stable childhood in New York with my mother and stepfather, and I spent part of my summer holidays with Dad and Elizabeth. They were always in magnificently interesting places, which I loved visiting, like the set of [the 1966 film] Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Elizabeth had four children, to whom Dad was stepfather, and I remain incredibly close to them. I guess we’re so connected because no one else could possibly know what our lives were like.” A great force of life – who doesn’t care when the Zoom link fails to work and happily resumes our interview on WhatsApp – Kate Burton is a celebrated actor in her own right, with a master’s degree from the Yale School of Drama. She is a regular on Broadway, but outside the States is perhaps more widely known for her roles in Grey’s Anatomy and Scandal – “Shonda Rhimes put me on the map!” Yet her father, to whom she refers both as Dad and Dada, tried to put her off acting. Why? “Dada had very ambivalent feelings about being an actor. He just thought of it as a rambunctious, weird, strange life. And he was totally right!” Still, they had a chance to act together before he died, both in a 1983 iteration of Alice in Wonderland for the American Great Performances series (Kate played Alice, her father the White Knight – “it was the sweetest little scene”) and in a TV series called Ellis Island a year later. “I played his troubled daughter. He came in and gave me a hard time.” Did he give her acting advice, solicited or otherwise? “Dada just told me to do as little as possible!” We discuss nepo babies and she says that she wasn’t initially accepted into Yale – where classmates included Oscar winner Frances McDormand and Malcolm in the Middle’s Jane Kaczmarek – because Richard Burton was her dad. “If anything, I’d say being my dad’s daughter has always been a strike against me. Perhaps it’s easier to get through the door, but it’s harder to stay in the room because you are always being judged,” she explains. “I’ve spent a lot of time with Jared Harris [son of Richard] and Kate O’Toole [daughter of Peter] and we’ve talked about how our fathers’ reputations amounted to one small aspect of them. Everybody is judged by their worst behaviour, even if most of the behaviour was pretty good. Those three actors were three of the greatest who ever trod the earth!” It makes sense, then, that Kate was thrilled to be invited to be a kind of informal adviser on Mr Burton. She had long chats with director Marc Evans and one of the producers, Ed Talfan, whose own father was friends with hers. “My attitude towards the film, as an actor who happens to be Dad’s daughter, was to say, ‘Off you go!’ The script is superb – they handle grandfather Philip’s homosexuality beautifully – and the cast is great. The first time I visited the set, I watched a scene in which Steffan Rhodri, who plays my birth grandfather, is in the bar and my dad comes in to talk to him. I almost fell to my knees when I met Steffan – who doesn’t love him as Dave Coaches in Gavin & Stacey?” But what about Harry Lawtey, playing her father as a young rascal? Kate is, for a moment, quiet. “It was hard for me, as you can imagine. But, by God, Harry is extraordinary. Astonishing. He transitions from 16 to 26 during the film. It was also quite something to see how hard it was for Dada at the start. He came from abject poverty. His mother died when he was just two. He had to live with his sister and brother-in-law to have some semblance of a normal family life. It’s a pretty Dickensian epic when you think about it. “It’s unbelievable to think that Dada came from a small Welsh mining town and ended up in Hollywood. And it’s all thanks to Philip Burton, who looked at that bright young boy and decided to help him. Mr Burton has been an emotional journey for me, but I love the film. Of course I do!” Because it’s not about the hellraising? She laughs. “Because it’s about Dada!”
Kate Burton is "so sick" of father Richard Burton being labelled a hellraiser
A new film about the life of the iconic actor – staring Industry's Harry Lawtey in the lead role – is coming soon to UK cinemas.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Richard Jenkins is a tricky teenager. He lives with his sister and brother-in-law in a Welsh mining town near Port Talbot, his mother long since dead, his father an alcoholic. This is 1942 and young Richard dreams of becoming an actor, but his brother-in-law insists he leave school and pay his way – the Second World War means rations and shortages. But Richard’s English teacher, Philip Burton, sees something in the lad and mentors him, with Richard eventually becoming his legal ward and taking his name. Of course, Richard Burton went on to become a global star of both screen and stage until his death in 1984 at the age of 58. He was not only nominated for seven Academy Awards, but was also, according to critic Kenneth Tynan, "the natural successor to [Laurence] Olivier". Married five times, he was half of one of the first celebrity power couples when wed – twice, consecutively – to Elizabeth Taylor (who herself was married an impressive eight times). It is his hellraising years with Taylor that usually generate interest, but a new film, Mr Burton, eschews the rock ’n’ roll part of Burton’s life in favour of zooming in on his tricky teens. The biopic, starring Toby Jones as Philip Burton, Harry Lawtey as young Richard and Lesley Manville as Ma Smith, Philip’s landlady, is a fascinating journey through those early years. We know Jones and Manville are sublime actors, but Lawtey, whose breakthrough role was in Industry, is a revelation: at the start he’s a gangly kid with a broad Welsh accent, but Philip Burton takes him into the mountains to shout Shakespearean speeches into the air for hours on end and, by 1951, he’s performing Hal in Henry IV, his voice mellifluous, modulated and rich. Sponsored by Vue Save up to 30% on the latest releases at Vue in 2025 Are you a movie lover who always wants to be up to date with the latest releases? Then you're in luck, as RadioTimes.com readers can enjoy new films at Vue Cinemas for less. Customers will receive up to 30% off films with Vue Pass, as long as they have a RadioTimes.com account. It's a great time for new releases, with films such as Wicked, Nosferatu, The Brutalist and Moana 2 taking UK cinemas by storm. Head to your nearest Vue to catch these movies and more for up to 30% less if you're signed up as a RadioTimes.com member. Save up to 30% with Vue Pass Kate Burton, the 67-year-old daughter of Richard and his first wife, Sybil Williams, who was also an actor, usually makes a point of not watching films about her dad, but Mr Burton is different. "There have been so many biopics through the years," she says. "I know the one with Dominic West and Helena Bonham Carter [Burton & Taylor] is apparently very good and I love those two actors very much, but as the child of… well, I’m happy if everyone is so fascinated by Dad and Elizabeth, but what’s thrilling about Mr Burton is that it’s about Dad when he was young. Philip did an extraordinarily beautiful thing for Dad – we all have great teachers who make a difference, but he was something else. I’m proud to refer to him as my grandfather." Is she bored of her father’s reputation as a hellraiser? "Oh, my God! I’m so sick of it! Look, it was definitely part of his life. I accept that Dad and Elizabeth ushered in the notion of the paparazzi. It’s just funny to me because I had a very stable childhood in New York with my mother and stepfather, and I spent part of my summer holidays with Dad and Elizabeth. They were always in magnificently interesting places, which I loved visiting, like the set of [the 1966 film] Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Elizabeth had four children, to whom Dad was stepfather, and I remain incredibly close to them. I guess we’re so connected because no one else could possibly know what our lives were like." A great force of life – who doesn’t care when the Zoom link fails to work and happily resumes our interview on WhatsApp – Kate Burton is a celebrated actor in her own right, with a master’s degree from the Yale School of Drama. She is a regular on Broadway, but outside the States is perhaps more widely known for her roles in Grey’s Anatomy and Scandal – "Shonda Rhimes put me on the map!" Yet her father, to whom she refers both as Dad and Dada, tried to put her off acting. Why? "Dada had very ambivalent feelings about being an actor. He just thought of it as a rambunctious, weird, strange life. And he was totally right!" Still, they had a chance to act together before he died, both in a 1983 iteration of Alice in Wonderland for the American Great Performances series (Kate played Alice, her father the White Knight – "it was the sweetest little scene") and in a TV series called Ellis Island a year later. "I played his troubled daughter. He came in and gave me a hard time." Did he give her acting advice, solicited or otherwise? "Dada just told me to do as little as possible!" View oEmbed on the source website We discuss nepo babies and she says that she wasn’t initially accepted into Yale – where classmates included Oscar winner Frances McDormand and Malcolm in the Middle’s Jane Kaczmarek – because Richard Burton was her dad. "If anything, I’d say being my dad’s daughter has always been a strike against me. Perhaps it’s easier to get through the door, but it’s harder to stay in the room because you are always being judged," she explains. "I’ve spent a lot of time with Jared Harris [son of Richard] and Kate O’Toole [daughter of Peter] and we’ve talked about how our fathers’ reputations amounted to one small aspect of them. Everybody is judged by their worst behaviour, even if most of the behaviour was pretty good. Those three actors were three of the greatest who ever trod the earth!" It makes sense, then, that Kate was thrilled to be invited to be a kind of informal adviser on Mr Burton. She had long chats with director Marc Evans and one of the producers, Ed Talfan, whose own father was friends with hers. "My attitude towards the film, as an actor who happens to be Dad’s daughter, was to say, ‘Off you go!’ The script is superb – they handle grandfather Philip’s homosexuality beautifully – and the cast is great. The first time I visited the set, I watched a scene in which Steffan Rhodri, who plays my birth grandfather, is in the bar and my dad comes in to talk to him. I almost fell to my knees when I met Steffan – who doesn’t love him as Dave Coaches in Gavin & Stacey?" But what about Harry Lawtey, playing her father as a young rascal? Kate is, for a moment, quiet. "It was hard for me, as you can imagine. But, by God, Harry is extraordinary. Astonishing. He transitions from 16 to 26 during the film. It was also quite something to see how hard it was for Dada at the start. He came from abject poverty. His mother died when he was just two. He had to live with his sister and brother-in-law to have some semblance of a normal family life. It’s a pretty Dickensian epic when you think about it. "It’s unbelievable to think that Dada came from a small Welsh mining town and ended up in Hollywood. And it’s all thanks to Philip Burton, who looked at that bright young boy and decided to help him. Mr Burton has been an emotional journey for me, but I love the film. Of course I do!" Because it’s not about the hellraising? She laughs. "Because it’s about Dada!" The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Mr Burton will air on Monday 10 November at 8pm on BBC One and BBC iPlayer. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
The Gangs of London star shakes off a tough day of filming with a cold water dip and a sauna
This article was first published in Radio Times magazine in March 2025. Add Gangs of London to your watchlist Joe Cole, 36, has played a lot of tough customers. He was a Brummie gangster in Peaky Blinders, a Scouse boxer in A Prayer before Dawn (for which he won a British Independent Film Award) and a heroic former Met cop in Nightsleeper. He plays another gangster in the action thriller Gangs of London, which now returns for a third series. You’ve made a name for yourself as a bit of a tough man. Is that what you’re like in real life? I can certainly handle myself, to give a simple answer! But it’s a difficult question. Have you seen A Small Light?! [Cole starred as a real-life Dutch resistance member who helped his wife shelter Anne Frank’s family.] “Tough” covers many different facets. How do you choose your roles? It’s not by choice that I’ve done two action shows, two gangster shows and prison films – it’s because the roles I’m offered within them are great. I played a boxer from Liverpool who got locked up in a Thai prison in A Prayer before Dawn. An incredible experience. But a lot of this industry is out of an actor’s control; you’re at the mercy of casting agents, producers, directors. Your character, Sean Wallace, has been left for a dead a few times in Gangs of London. How does he keep surviving? Ha-ha! It’s in his genetic makeup! He seems to have nine lives, and he’s now been given one more chance. He started as an adolescent figure making rash decisions, developed into someone a little more calculated, cut-throat, almost a proper gangster and now he has a new life to adapt to. Gangs of London is known for its intense fight scenes — is it as relentless to film as it is to watch? Yes! It can be quite gruelling, especially when you have to do a fight 100 times in a row, but the stunts are choreographed and there’s always a buzz on set. Action sequences on TV are being elevated. These are film-makers trying to punch bigger than the budget in high-level action series. Is it perhaps too violent? It’s the USP of the show. These days people are exposed to all sorts of graphic content so we’re quite desensitised. Video games are more violent than Gangs of London. But it’s not my decision to make. Violence for violence’s sake isn’t my cup of tea. It needs to serve the story: if you’ve got high stakes, interesting characters and strong story arcs, then it’s justified. How do you switch off from that? I love a dip in cold water followed by a sauna. It’s the easiest way to change your state in a matter of minutes. I recommend everybody gives it a go. I’m in the gym at least four times a week, lifting weights. And I love hiking, getting out into nature and clearing my head. Are you recognised for your roles? Peaky Blinders, because it was sold worldwide. I was in Costa Rica recently and a woman washing sheets recognised me. The show resonated with a working-class audience, so it’s lovely when people ask me about it. But Gangs of London is hot on its heels. I get recognised for that all the time now. I’m tired of being recognised, to be honest, and having the same conversation 20 times a day, but I understand it’s part of the job. I can’t complain! Are you sad not to be in the upcoming Peaky Blinders film, or are you glad not to have that haircut again? Ha! I had an amazing time on that show, but it was a long time ago. I’ve got a bunch of friends in the movie, I’ve heard a few stories from set, and it all sounds very exciting. I’m buzzing to see it. Your younger brother Finn acted alongside you in Peaky Blinders. Are you competitive with him? Only at Monopoly! Is he better than me? Hmm… probably, yes. I’m the eldest of five boys and we went to quite a rough state school in south London, but it had an amazing drama department, and we all developed a love of the camaraderie involved in putting a show together. I can’t believe that so many of those classes are being cut in state schools. It’s pretty sad. And finally… any plans for another series of the BBC’s Nightsleeper? Not to my knowledge. I quite liked it as a standalone. The train has to get from A to B, and then it’s over. I’d say that train has very much left the station!
Gangs of London star Joe Cole hits out at drama cuts in state schools: "It's pretty sad"
The actor speaks to Radio Times about the return of his Sky drama, plus the Peaky Blinders film and declining opportunities for state school students.
This article first appeared in Radio Times magazine. Joe Cole, 36, has played a lot of tough customers. He was a Brummie gangster in Peaky Blinders, a Scouse boxer in A Prayer Before Dawn (for which he won a British Independent Film Award) and a heroic former Met cop in Nightsleeper. He plays another gangster in the action thriller Gangs of London, which now returns for a third season. You've made a name for yourself as a bit of a tough man. Is that what you're like in real life? I can certainly handle myself, to give a simple answer! But it’s a difficult question. Have you seen A Small Light?! [Cole starred as a real-life Dutch resistance member who helped his wife shelter Anne Frank’s family.] "Tough" covers many different facets. How do you choose your roles? It’s not by choice that I’ve done two action shows, two gangster shows and prison films – it’s because the roles I’m offered within them are great. I played a boxer from Liverpool who got locked up in a Thai prison in A Prayer before Dawn. An incredible experience. But a lot of this industry is out of an actor’s control; you’re at the mercy of casting agents, producers, directors. Your character, Sean Wallace, has been left for a dead a few times in Gangs of London. How does he keep surviving? Ha-ha! It’s in his genetic makeup! He seems to have nine lives, and he’s now been given one more chance. He started as an adolescent figure making rash decisions, developed into someone a little more calculated, cut-throat, almost a proper gangster, and now he has a new life to adapt to. Gangs of London is known for its intense fight scenes — is it as relentless to film as it is to watch? Yes! It can be quite gruelling, especially when you have to do a fight 100 times in a row, but the stunts are choreographed and there’s always a buzz on set. Action sequences on TV are being elevated. These are film-makers trying to punch bigger than the budget in high-level action series. Is it perhaps too violent? It’s the USP of the show. These days people are exposed to all sorts of graphic content so we’re quite desensitised. Video games are more violent than Gangs of London. But it’s not my decision to make. Violence for violence’s sake isn’t my cup of tea. It needs to serve the story: if you’ve got high stakes, interesting characters and strong story arcs, then it’s justified. How do you switch off from that? I love a dip in cold water followed by a sauna. It’s the easiest way to change your state in a matter of minutes. I recommend everybody gives it a go. I’m in the gym at least four times a week, lifting weights. And I love hiking, getting out into nature and clearing my head. Are you recognised for your roles? Peaky Blinders, because it was sold worldwide. I was in Costa Rica recently and a woman washing sheets recognised me. The show resonated with a working-class audience, so it’s lovely when people ask me about it. But Gangs of London is hot on its heels. I get recognised for that all the time now. I’m tired of being recognised, to be honest, and having the same conversation 20 times a day, but I understand it’s part of the job. I can’t complain! Are you sad not to be in the upcoming Peaky Blinders film, or are you glad not to have that haircut again? Ha! I had an amazing time on that show, but it was a long time ago. I’ve got a bunch of friends in the movie, I’ve heard a few stories from set, and it all sounds very exciting. I’m buzzing to see it. Your younger brother Finn acted alongside you in Peaky Blinders. Are you competitive with him? Only at Monopoly! Is he better than me? Hmm… probably, yes. I’m the eldest of five boys and we went to quite a rough state school in south London, but it had an amazing drama department, and we all developed a love of the camaraderie involved in putting a show together. I can’t believe that so many of those classes are being cut in state schools. It’s pretty sad. And finally… any plans for another season of the BBC's Nightsleeper? Not to my knowledge. I quite liked it as a standalone. The train has to get from A to B, and then it’s over. I’d say that train has very much left the station! The latest issue of Radio Times is out now – subscribe here. Gangs of London returns to Sky Atlantic and NOW on Thursday 20th March 2025. Check out more of our Drama coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.
Sanjeev Bhaskar on a comic catchphrase, his “drama school” and sleuthing spouse
Add Unforgotten to your watchlist What’s it like returning as DI Sunil “Sunny” Khan for the sixth series of Unforgotten? Joyous! The fact that writer Chris Lang and director Andy Wilson have worked on every single episode for the last decade really shows: the continuity and stability help make it a happy, inclusive set. The guest actors certainly seem to love working on the show – this series we have Victoria Hamilton, MyAnna Buring and Michele Dotrice, who of course played Betty Spencer in [hit 1970s sitcom] Some Mothers Do ’Ave ’Em. I had to really fight the urge to say, “Ooh, Betty!” <img src="https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/3/2025/02/unforgotten-season-6-sanjeev-bhaskar-sinead-keenan-010861d.jpg" width="6753" height="4502" alt="Unforgotten's Sunny Khan and Jess James both holding up their police identification to camera on the street, with a house and cars behind them." title="Sanjeev Bhaskar as DI Sunny Khan and Sinéad Keenan as DCI Jess James in Unforgotten" /> Were you pleased that this series tackles issues like immigration, the environment and Brexit? Of course – Chris is an empathetic writer who always addresses key issues. It’s one of the things that, for me, makes it a great show – despite me being in it! There are always four disparate people who have some sort of connection and there’s always an underlying theme, be it friendship, justice or divisive issues. Do you miss Nicola Walker, who played Jess’s predecessor, DCI Cassie Stuart? Yes, I do. It’s a weird one. I don’t miss Cassie, but I miss Nicola. At the same time, Nicola and I text and talk all the time. That friendship is one of the best things to come out of Unforgotten. When I started on the series in 2015, I came from comedy and drama wasn’t my area of expertise. Nicola was, in many ways, my drama school. We were lucky with Nicola and now we’re lucky with Sinéad, who’s got a different energy but is really fantastic. Your wife, Meera Syal, plays a caterer turned sleuth in Mrs Sidhu Investigates. Do you discuss each other’s scripts? I tell her nothing about Unforgotten, so she watches it along with everyone else and I never give anything away. She says, “Oh, he did it!” and I retain my poker face. I try to work out whodunnit when I read Chris’s scripts – I’ve got into the habit of linking clues, so I think I’d now make a good detective. Are you signed up for more series of Unforgotten? If it’s recommissioned, which is decided when it goes out, I would love to. Finally, the costume department famously puts random things in Sunny’s backpack. Can you tell us what might be in there this series? Well, previous items included a giant metal flamingo, a wooden Noah’s ark including all the animals, fake leopardskin stilettos, a hammock and a cocktail set – but you’ll have to look on my social media pages to see what Sunny is carrying around in each new episode of this series!
She’s now found her feet as the lead in the hit crime drama, but Sinéad Keenan recalls nervously watching her debut
This article was first published in Radio Times magazine in February 2025. Add Unforgotten to your watchlist The last time I met Sinéad Keenan, in late 2022, she was apprehensive. She’d watched DCI Cassie Stuart’s fatal car crash in the series four finale of Unforgotten “with everyone else” and was shocked when her agent asked if she would consider joining the show as the new DCI. Her initial response? “Don’t be so ridiculous! Only a fool would follow in Nicola Walker’s footsteps!” But she was curious – and knew she’d also be a fool to say no. As it turned out, Keenan was the perfect choice to play DCI Jessica “Jess” James. She had already been a werewolf in the first three series of Being Human, excelled at portraying a grieving mother in the 2017 drama Little Boy Blue and played a DI in the first series of Showtrial. She could bring the kind of empathy to DCI Jess James that Unforgotten creator/writer Chris Lang looks for in his actors. Having said that, her first day didn’t go well. Less than an hour before the DCI was due to start work in her new job, she found out that her husband was having an affair. And her relationship with DI Sunil “Sunny” Khan, played with restrained brilliance by Sanjeev Bhaskar, started off as prickly at best. Today, as series six is about to be broadcast, Keenan, who is 47, is like a different person: relaxed, chatty, a bit silly and lots of fun. “It was nerve-racking watching series five because it would have been so easy to go, ‘Oh God, did I break Unforgotten?’ But thankfully they asked me back.” Was it easier second time round? “Yes!” she says, laughing. “I was no longer the new kid in class, and it felt good. Really good.” We talk about how this series tackles several big issues, including Brexit. Keenan, born and raised in Dublin, presumably feels European? “I am European,” she says, without hesitation. “I personally think the UK is better in than out. My boys, who are nine and seven-and-a-half, have got Irish passports. They’re very lucky.” Her sons might have freedom of movement in the EU, but they’re too young to watch their mum solving cold cases on the telly – this series starts with the discovery of human remains on the fictional Whitney Marsh. “They’re absolutely not watching it! They’ve seen me reading Bedtime Stories on CBeebies, but they were nonplussed. They’ve also seen me in two episodes of Doctor Who [from David Tennant’s era] and they were kind of impressed with that.” Keenan and her husband, actor turned director Chris McGill, whom she met when they appeared in A Midsummer Night’s Dream for the RSC in 2005, share the childcare – but it takes a good script to pull her away from their Stratford- upon-Avon home. “It has to be worth it creatively and financially, but I’m lucky I can play tag team with my husband. He and I are like ships… which is probably the key to a happy marriage!” Luckily, Lang writes very good scripts – the actors receive them for all six episodes of a series up front, which is a luxury – and the shooting days aren’t too long because he’s so organised. “And of course you get to act with these incredible people – Victoria Hamilton and MyAnna Buring in this series – and it’s hard not to be starstruck.” I ask if she’s heard from Nicola Walker since taking residence in her on-screen office. Keenan shakes her head. “I worked with her very briefly in an episode of Being Human, but she probably wouldn’t remember. I’m sure she doesn’t watch Unforgotten now that she’s not in it.” Keenan, a shy kid with a gregarious younger sister and brother, was encouraged to study law by her parents, but her head was turned by acting after being cast, aged 15, in a school play as Eliza Doolittle in My Fair Lady. Her parents have come around to their daughter being a successful actor. And, despite the TV production industry being in a mess – a large percentage of the UK’s film and TV workforce are still out of work following the Hollywood strikes of 2023 and the rise of streaming platforms – Keenan has happily sailed from one great project to another. “TV is in a state of flux,” she agrees. “I’ve been very lucky. I finished Unforgotten and went straight onto How to Get to Heaven from Belfast, which Lisa McGee [creator/writer of Derry Girls] wrote for Netflix.” Keenan stars in that series, alongside Róisín Gallagher (star of The Dry) and Caoilfhionn Dunne (last seen in Industry), as a trio of childhood friends in their late 30s who meet up again after the death of their friend. “I can’t say much, but it was bonkers. Diametrically opposed to Unforgotten, but really good fun. Car chases and water tanks were involved. At one point I was hanging upside down in a car and I had to remind myself that they wouldn’t let me die. If someone asked me to do a bungee jump for s***s and giggles, I’d be like, ‘Not on your life!’ I’m only interested if it’s on camera!” Unforgotten, as she points out, is calm and low-key in comparison. Its enduring popularity is, no doubt, due to the exceptional writing, the considered casting and the fact that we all like problems to be solved. So, if she’s offered another series, would she be up for it? “Would I be up for hanging out with the lovely Sanjeev Bhaskar again? I reckon so. Bring it on!” There’s a knock at the door: Bhaskar is here to do his interview. They grin, have a hug and it feels like a long time since Cassie Stuart was around.