Diane Morgan and Charlie Brooker: 'There's a lot of pretentiousness in the film world'
As Britain’s worst TV presenter returns to our screens for a series all about films, we sit down with writer Charlie Brooker and actor Diane Morgan to discover her origins
Suki Dhana for Radio Times
- Huw Fullerton
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Charlie Brooker is definitely not ready for his close-up. During RT’s celluloid-themed shoot, the screenwriter and Black Mirror creator warns our photographer that while he is “vaguely aware he has different body parts”, if he’s put on the spot he can’t think how to move or position them naturally. “I have an ambivalent feeling about being on camera,” he says later. “I do have a show-off gene, but also, even having my photo taken – it feels weird.”
But luckily, alongside him today is comedian and actor Diane Morgan – and she’s much more comfortable in front of the lens. As Brooker poses, she throws back an exaggerated imitation. “You are like a sarcastic mirror,” he mutters.
“Maybe that’s your next show – Sarcastic Mirror,” she suggests.
The pair have worked together since 2013 on the character Philomena Cunk – a dim-witted TV presenter played by Morgan – who began as a talking head on the Brooker-fronted review series Weekly Wipe, but gradually became the star of her own series of documentaries. So far we’ve had Cunk on Shakespeare, Christmas, Britain, Earth, Life… and for this new series, it’s Cunk on Cinema, covering the very earliest days of the Lumière brothers right through to the rise of Generative AI in Hollywood.
At this stage, both have plenty of other projects to take up their time – Brooker his sci-fi satire Black Mirror (and new crime comedy Blackmere), Morgan her self-penned sitcoms Mandy and Ann Droid, and plenty of acting work. But they still make an effort to get together for more Cunk nonsense every few years.
Cunk on… first impressions
Charlie How did we meet? This is where you’re going to say I was a dick to you.
Diane I met him at the Edinburgh Fringe. I was a big fan, because I liked his column [for The Guardian] – that sounds euphemistic, doesn’t it? “I liked your column.”
Charlie We’ll let it go!
Diane I made the mistake of going up to him and saying, “I’m a big fan!” He was like, “WHY DO YOU LIKE IT?”
Charlie It’s stupid of me to have adopted a comic persona in real life. At that time, if people said to me, “I really like your work,” as a joke I’d go, “What’s wrong with you?”
Diane You crushed me, and I couldn’t watch Weekly Wipe for ages after that. I would have flashbacks. Then the audition came up, and I was like, “Ugh, I really want to do it. But you hate me!”
Diane Morgan and Charlie Brooker. Suki Dhanda
Cunk on… auditions
Charlie I wasn’t at Diane’s audition, but I watched the tape. We wanted an “upper-middle-class yummy mummy cupcake blogger” talking head. And then you read for it, and decided to do it in your own voice, and it was much funnier. So you got the gig. And then we thought: what if we give Philomena a little package to do, and the joke is that it’s a high-brow topic?
Diane So we did a little – was it two minutes? – segment on the subject of time. If you look back now, it’s very [Professor] Brian Cox.
Charlie You’re a little bit more smiley in it. You’re a little bit more impressed with time. And, again, you made us laugh internally on the show, so we must have decided there and then, “Let’s expand it.”
I made the mistake of going up to him and saying, 'I’m a big fan'
Diane Morgan
Cunk on… evolution
Charlie My memory is – I think you were aware of this – that we were pitching a whole show at one point.
Diane At some point I became aware, but probably not for ages.
Charlie The idea was Philomena Cunk and someone like Emily Maitlis – a serious news journalist, who was really annoyed that she was in this dumbed-down, popular science show, with an idiot co-presenting it. We pitched this as a half-hour comedy show, but the BBC went, “Um…” Then Shane Allen [former BBC Comedy boss] said, “I reckon if you did something for the Shakespeare season, I could get it away.” So we did Cunk on Shakespeare. And it worked.
Diane Morgan as Philomena Cunk. BBC
Cunk on… Cunk on Cinema
Charlie We’d done history, of Britain and of the world. And then we did philosophy. One thing we hadn’t done was a slightly pretentious take on a popular medium. And everyone’s talking about AI devastating Hollywood. It felt like another field that we hadn’t ploughed to death yet.
Diane There was a lot to make fun of as well. There’s a lot of pretentiousness knocking about in the film world. I don’t really watch many films these days. But I like a documentary. Or an old film, like Cléo from 5 to 7. It’s an Agnès Varda film.
Charlie Thanks for showing me up. I’m slightly stuck in my teenage years in many ways. Airplane! is one of my favourite films ever, which I saw when I was 10 or something like that. And I thought, “I didn’t even know films were allowed to be this funny.” The film I’ve liked most over the last couple of years is probably One Battle after Another. And I really liked Sinners.
Diane Oh, I liked The Substance. That was probably the most modern film I’ve seen in ages.
Cunk on… filming
Diane You never turn up on set, although you did for Cunk on Cinema, because it was in LA and you fancied that.
Charlie Maybe that was the motivation for writing this whole thing – so that we could go to Los Angeles.
Diane Usually the Cunks are filmed in driving rain, in the freezing cold. Every single series.
Charlie There’s one where you got midges in your hair, in the Highlands.
Diane Oh my God. My hair was thick with midges, and every time I went to speak, the midges would crawl in my mouth, and up my nose, and in my eyes. And they had to stop filming to – I’m not joking – scoop midges out of my eyes.
Charlie That’s why it’s a shame that I don’t go to set often.
I’m miserable to see her success in Motherland, Mandy and Ann Droid
Charlie Brooker
Cunk on… collaboration
Diane We don’t really work together. I think my voice lends itself to Charlie’s writing, and that just sort of works, doesn’t it?
Charlie Yeah. Because you don’t come sit in the edit.
Diane I’m not allowed in the edit.
Charlie Well, what if your opinions are better than mine?
Diane In the edit you sort of look at yourself, and you go, “What am I doing with my hand? I’ve got to stop doing that with my hand. Look at my hair!”
Charlie But, hang on, you’re in the edit for Mandy and Ann Droid, right? How do you feel about that?
Diane I still go, “What am I doing there?” and I’ll make a mental note to never do that again.
Charlie It sounds like hell being you. Obviously, I’m miserable to see all her success with Motherland, Mandy and Ann Droid. Drunk with power, she is. A monster. No, it’s nice. I remember the first Cunk audition, I thought, “Thank f*** for this. There’s an undeniable talent here.”
Diane Morgan in Ann Droid. BBC
Cunk on… technology
Charlie She didn’t ask for my advice on Ann Droid.
Diane Imagine: “Charlie, can I talk to you about our new show? I need your advice.”
Charlie If we’d done it as a Black Mirror, she would have to strangle Sue Johnston.
Diane Very soon, it would turn sour. We wanted to keep it light. The reaction to Ann Droid was amazing. I really thought,“Oh, no, it’s going to be really embarrassing playing a robot.” It was very different to anything I’ve ever done, so it felt like a risk. When it went down well, it was just a relief people weren’t slagging us off.
Cunk on… the future
Charlie I think this is it. We’re done. No, I don’t know. It’d be fun to try doing a thing that’s a very different take. It’s all down to her availability.
Diane Says Mr Black Mirror here.
Charlie Cunk on McCartney would be good. You could do a whole history of popular music. We were going to do a travelogue at one point. We just have to make sure it’s the right thing, and there are lots of warm environments – for you. You’re fussy. You don’t want to be infested with midges.
Diane I’m like a little guppy.
Charlie What?
Diane I’m like a little guppy, like the fish. You have to put them in warm water, haven’t you? Not like a goldfish.
Charlie Right. OK. I also want to do a Cunk action film. Cunk on Fire. I’ve genuinely been thinking about it. You know how Bob Odenkirk did this film Nobody? There’s a whole scene where he goes into a bus, and he beats up about eight guys in a high-octane, bone-crunching scene. It would be quite funny to see Cunk doing it, but impassively throughout.
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Diane See, that’s him – it’s all ticking away.
Authors
Huw FullertonCommissioning editor
Huw Fullerton is a commissioning editor for Radio Times magazine handling comedy, entertainment and specialist drama. In a previous regeneration, he covered all things sci-fi and fantasy for RadioTimes.com.
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